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Christian Forums
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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wayseer
Member
Yes - anything else is a heresy. Not that I am necessarily against heresies. The two persons acting as one is Nestonianism.
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rrowell
Guest
Actually the word is "Nestorianism", that within Jesus are two distinct persons, divine and human, rather than a single divine person. and it is not the same thing.
God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three distinct persons acting as one in all things, it is not Nestorianism.
Do you believe that "God" and the "word" and the "HS" are the same person? yes or no?
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rrowell
Guest
I figured you would say something like that, tell everyone they are wrong but wont say what you believe...
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BornAgain
Guest
Back to the OP:
Matt 4:1 KJV
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
The temptation of Jesus concludes Matthew's account of events connected with Jesus' entrance upon his public work. That work was now beginning. Modern scholars have speculated on whether the temptation of Jesus was real or whether it was only allegorical, there is nothing in the record of Matthew, Mark, or Luke that would lead one to think otherwise than that his temptation was as real as was his baptism.
Immediately after his baptism and after God had publicly acknowledged him as his Son, and at the very beginning of his public work, the temptation of Jesus came. Satan begins his work in an active way as never before so soon as the Son of God begins his active work in the redemption of man.
"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit"; this shows that Jesus was subjected to temptation according to the will of God; a deliberate purpose of the will of God, and not a purpose of his own, was carried out in his temptation, for he was "led up of the Spirit"; the Spirit carried him away, "the Spirit driveth him forth" Mark 1:12, he "was led in the Spirit" Luke 4:1. It seems that Jesus was led up from the river Jordan to the mountainous range adjacent. Tradition locates the place as a rugged desolate region between Jerusalem and Jericho, and about four miles from the place of baptism and about twenty miles from Jerusalem; the divine record describes the place as "the wilderness." Jesus was not "driven" against his own will; he voluntarily yielded to the powerful influence of the Spirit as it led him to do the will of God. In order to be the Savior of tempted mankind, it was necessary that he himself should be tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. Heb 4:15.
The express purpose of his being led into the wilderness was "to be tempted of the devil." He was to be tried by the strongest solicitations to sin. "To be tempted" literally means "to be stretched out" or tried to the full strength; "tempt" is from the Latin "tento, tempto" and is an intensive form of "tendo" which means to stretch. Jesus was to be "tempted," enticed to do wrong by the devil, in order that he might be proved and tested for God's work.
It was the will and plan of God for Jesus to be "tempted of the devil." The original Greek for "devil" means "calumniator, slanderer"; it is sometimes applied to men, as to Judas John 6:70. I 1 Tim 3:11 (slanderers); and in 2 Tim 2:3 and Tit 2:3 (false accusers).
The devil, Satan, the god of this world, is always singular, never plural; it is not the same in the original as "demon," which means an unclean spirit which possessed men and was cast out by Jesus and his apostles.
The Greek word for devil conveys the idea of deceiving, accusing, calumniating; the term is never used in the Bible to signify an evil spirit and is never used to personify the evil in man or in the world. The devil is represented in the New Testament as an adversary of human souls, endeavoring by various snares to take us captive, suggesting evil thoughts to our minds, or erasing good impressions which have been produced there, or putting hindrances in the way of good work, or inspiring persecutors of the faithful, and as certain at last to be bound in chains, and finally cast into torment. Matt 13:19, Luke 22:31, John 13:2, 2 Cor 2:11, 2 Cor 11:13-14, Eph 6:11, 1 Thess 2:18, 2 Tim 2:26, 1 Pet 5:8-9, Rev 2:10 Rev 12:9, Rev 20 1-3, Rev 7-10.
It seems that the devil is a created being of the higher order than man who has fallen from his first estate. Jude 6.
—Gospel Advocate Commentaries
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Asyncritus
Guest
Now there's a fine bit of condescension! I hope SB doesn't hold it against you.
We've now got the distinction being aired, of a distinction between 'tempted' and 'enticed'. There is such a distinction, but the problem is further back than that. The problem (for the trinitarian) lies in the word 'tempted'.
What does James really say?
First: God cannot be 'tempted' (551)
NAS Lexicon:
Definition
- that can not be tempted by evil, not liable to temptation to sin
CAN NOT (that's the force of the 'a-') be TEMPTED.
Second: Jesus was 'tempted' (3985) in all points like as we are, yet without sin.
You notice the two opposites.
The word apeirastos is the opposite derivative of peirazo:
A-peirastos = cannot be tempted
peirazo = tempt
God cannot even be tempted. Jesus was.
ENTICED is another word entirely:
So Jesus was tempted (such as God cannot be), but not enticed (you are correct enough there), and did not sin (and correct enough there too).
That is the trinitarian problem, which cannot be resolved.
This whole thing about tempted is the finish of any question of 'equality', being 'of the same nature' and all the other descriptions of Jesus in the creeds. The compilers failed to recognise these simple facts above, and spent (and will spend) forever trying to show that black is white and vice versa.
So this following statement is meaningless:
Because if He couldn't be tempted, then He could not, as Hebrews again says, 'destroy him that had the power of death...'
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smaller
Member
What is entertaining is if it was heresy hunting I was doing, I found you
Whatcha gonna do if you ever find someone who actually agrees with you?
Glory day? Another sect?
;)
s
smaller
Member
I'm not much on 'commentaries' but doesn't anyone, anyone, find it a bit odd that Jesus was 30 years old before being tempted?
What planet did I grow up on?
;)
s
smaller
Member
A disconnected piece of logic there. There is no requirement to be tempted in order to achieve whatever goal seeking there was in play.
Being tempted as we are, with sin, and being tempted, yet without sin, is a far divide.
I don't think this blanket statement for example stretches over God in Christ:
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
or this one:
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Where there is stated exception as in Jesus having 'no sin' or being tempted yet without sin they are just not the same matters as 'we all' have.
Who of us even knows such a state of being? No, not I. Unless I prefer a trip into personally prescribed religious fantasia land.
s
Can God be tempted with evil or to do evil? (see James 1:13)
Can flesh be tempted? (see Heb 4:15)
Did Jesus come in the flesh? (see 2John 1:7)
The enmity is between Spirit and Flesh. (see Rom 8:7)
The Mind of Christ is not the carnal mind of the Flesh. (see 1Cor 2:16)
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We are to strive for the Unity of the Faith - as those who look forward to seeing each other at the Wedding Feast of the Lamb of God. And yet we sin. "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." - Hebrews 4:16 KJV
And if we see our brother sin? First we are to remove the plank from our own eye. God has indeed asked, "Who is blind, but my servant?" (see Isa 42:19) We are to pray and ask God, and God will give life (for sin not leading to death) - see 1John 5:16
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Notice how Hebrews 4:15 is immediately followed by Heb 4:16. We are to boldly come unto the throne of grace [both for ourselves and for others] BECAUSE our High Priest (our Emmanuel) CAN be touched with the feeling of our infirmities.
Can flesh be tempted? (see Heb 4:15)
Did Jesus come in the flesh? (see 2John 1:7)
The enmity is between Spirit and Flesh. (see Rom 8:7)
The Mind of Christ is not the carnal mind of the Flesh. (see 1Cor 2:16)
____________________________________________________________
We are to strive for the Unity of the Faith - as those who look forward to seeing each other at the Wedding Feast of the Lamb of God. And yet we sin. "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." - Hebrews 4:16 KJV
And if we see our brother sin? First we are to remove the plank from our own eye. God has indeed asked, "Who is blind, but my servant?" (see Isa 42:19) We are to pray and ask God, and God will give life (for sin not leading to death) - see 1John 5:16
____________________________________________________________
Notice how Hebrews 4:15 is immediately followed by Heb 4:16. We are to boldly come unto the throne of grace [both for ourselves and for others] BECAUSE our High Priest (our Emmanuel) CAN be touched with the feeling of our infirmities.
smaller
Member
It is well accepted within orthodoxy that Jesus was sinless in flesh.
There was no 'enmity' therein. If you believe there was, then you are dancing on gnostic ground, believing the 'flesh/matter' is evil and only the spirit good/perfect.
There are a few old gnostics even at these threads.
s
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stovebolts
Member
I agree that the more we try to understand and put our theologies into neat little boxes, the more we "tire ourselves in knots".
Actually, I prefer the Coptic point of view on the matter. We see early in History when the East and West were knotting themselves all up with the idea of trinity and the Coptics just took a step back and didn't engage and I think they showed some wisdom we could all learn a bit from.
I know better than to argue about the trinity and history affirms that when people argue about such matters, it only causes division.
Was Jesus tempted? I believe he was.
Did Jesus sin? Absolutely no.
Do I question my salvation? Absolutely not.
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rrowell
Guest
smaller
Member
R
rrowell
Guest
I have quite a few, but not nearly enough:
Matthew 7:14 (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
