We are saved by believing into Jesus, not in Jesus

[Adullam]

We are not saved by believing in Jesus Christ. We are saved by believing into Jesus Christ. John 3:16, that famous verse states that we who believe INTO Jesus will not perish.

The greek word for into is "eis" and is usually translated as "on" ...but also uses "in." This translation is misleading to those who believe that the bible actually teaches easy magic formula salvation.

 

[FightingAtheism]

"Into Jesus", meaning that you also have to believe his Word; what the Bible tells us. Is that what you are trying to tell us?

 

[duval]

But WHAT do we do to believe into Jesus? WHAT makes the distinction between "in" and "into"?

 

[cyberjosh]

We are not saved by believing in Jesus Christ. We are saved by believing into Jesus Christ. John 3:16, that famous verse states that we who believe INTO Jesus will not perish.

The greek word for into is "eis" and is usually translated as "on" ...but also uses "in." This translation is misleading to those who believe that the bible actually teaches easy magic formula salvation.

I have taken introductory level New Testament Greek and we discussed the usage of eis in various passages, and in certain contexts it can simply mean "in". Eis is more precisely understood as "into" in cases - for example - where it is used in conjunction with baptism: baptism "into" the water, or "into" the Spirit. The distinction between "in" an "into" here in this particular passage is virtually null in any case, because if anyone thought "believe in" meant "think of" or "intellectually accept" Christ then they misunderstood the entire meaning of the verse. "Whosoever believes in Him" (John 3:16) means to place trust in something outside yourself, indeed even "into Christ". If we do not trust Christ, the words He has spoken, or trust that the Gospel (Christ's atonement and resurrection) is true then we cannot receive salvation through faith. "In" is a correct/sufficient translation here at any rate, it just must be properly understood.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Adullam]

This may appear subtle to some...but there is a vast difference in believing in Mars and believing ON Mars or TO Mars or being able to believe INTO Mars. A person can know many facts about the red planet but it is not the same as living there. The bible does not use too many superlatives....it's all heavy and deeply real. We tend to minimize the scale of the bible. It has been said that bible schools teach men that the bible does not really say what is written in it.

Jesus said....

I am come into the world.... that whosoever believeth into Me should not abide in darkness. John 12:46

Both intos here are "eis" in Greek.

Did Jesus just "believe" He came into this world? Was it something He accepted on good faith. Or did He actually enter into our history???

Likewise we can enter INTO Christ, in reality...in the Spirit. We can have an altered existence. We can see as He sees and be as He is...since we are there with Him. Where He is we can be also. Right now! The bible was written through experience that we may also experience. The word is the link between us. Faith is the ingredient that activates the reality. Grace is the power that accomplishes the experience and makes it our reality.

 

[duval]

Considering that there are various levels of belief or faith, the Bible teaches only ONE way one's belief gets him INTO Christ.

God bless
duval

 

[Adullam]

Faith (the faith of the NT) is not just human belief...but a means of transportation between realms. It changes our location. We become located in Christ, so that our life is hid in Him. Jesus is located in His Father, as we are to be located in Him.

Jesus came into our world so that we can enter into His world. Going to heaven and abiding there is while one still lives in this world. This is the Christian life. Where we live now determines where we will be in eternity.

 

[Drew]

Hello Adullam:

I sense that all the posters thus far essentially agree that it is not enough to merely give intellectual assent to the proposition that Jesus is Lord and that He died for our sins. The nature of "saving faith" is, in my mind, not something that is easy to articulate even though I believe that "you know it when you have it".

By the way, I grew up in Montreal (NDG).

 

[duval]

To me what you say is in a sense true but too nebulous, too general. HOW does ones faith become "into" and no longer "in"?

 

[Adullam]

To me what you say is in a sense true but too nebulous, too general. HOW does ones faith become "into" and no longer "in"?

Muslim fanatics believe they will have 72 virgins worth of pleasure in the afterlife if they just obey the clerics. Fanaticism of this kind is based on human faith and suggestibility. We believe what we want to believe. Many Christians have accepted a Jesus they don't know. They have succumbed to the power of suggestion by Christian clerics. Rather than commit suicide, they are told to hand out tracts and recruit for the cause. We fail to compare ourselves with the Muslims. Or we directly compete with them. Most Christians have a weaker human belief than they, anyway. Our faith and opinions have no power regardless. They are as useless as dung as Paul teaches us.

Jesus Christ is not a magic word that if accepted and pronounced can save you. A Christian does not believe the same way as a person of a different religion does. A Christian must believe with God's faith and not his own. The type of faith that can throw a mountain into the sea cannot be developed by human effort.

If you believe into (not just accept as true) the word....you enter into the reality of it. Remember when Cornelius and his household believed. They were baptized into the Holy Spirit. They entered the spiritual dimension. God's power descended from on high. The electrical connection was made and lightning struck.

Take nitro and glycerine. They are stable and benign separately. But put them together and you get an explosion. The same goes with NT faith AND the word. Put them together and you get miraculous revival.

 

[duval]

But you still have not explained HOW such faith is "into" and not simply "in" Jesus. Is it being baptized with the Holy Spirit? I think not for too many things would have to be obvious which are not so today. Rom.8:16 reads "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are childdren of God:". One who is a child of God as Romans says surely must have a faith that is "into" Christ, but HOW and WHEN do we know? Its sureliy something more than as the old saying goes "better felt than told".

God bless
duval

 

[Adullam]

But you still have not explained HOW such faith is "into" and not simply "in" Jesus. Is it being baptized with the Holy Spirit? I think not for too many things would have to be obvious which are not so today. Rom.8:16 reads "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are childdren of God:". One who is a child of God as Romans says surely must have a faith that is "into" Christ, but HOW and WHEN do we know? Its sureliy something more than as the old saying goes "better felt than told".

God bless
duval

You know you have made the connection when you are filled with the Spirit. As we walk in the Spirit, we are walking by His faith in us. We can't do that of ourselves.

A person can believe in Santa Claus. This can animate his thoughts and even make him happy...as long as trials don't come. But he cannot believe into santa claus. Santa claus first doesn't exist and neither is he the master of a reality.

What I'm saying is that many Christians believe in Jesus in the same way a child believes in Santa claus but at a higher level. They make believe. There is no reality.

A Christian thrives under persecution. The harder the trial, the more the love, joy, and hope kicks in. We receive the comfort we need. It's all about location. You can believe in something and still be outside of it. But you can't believe into Christ from the outside.

Faith and belief are not the same. Faith sees! :o

 

[samuel]

Believing “in†or “intoâ€Â, it makes no difference in the word you use. When Jesus asked the Apostles, who do the people say I am. Some replied Elijah, some said John the Baptist. Only one received true revelation from the Father, that was Peter. He said I believe you are the Christ, the Son of God.

Jesus said on this rock, I will build my Church, not Peter, but the true revelation of faith given from the Father. There is a difference between Literary faith, and divine faith. Many today believe in Christ because they have read about him, or the Preacher told them, and they trust the Preacher.

They have a form of Godliness, but lack any power; the proof of changed lives. True faith in Christ comes from the Heart, it cannot be defined, and does not rest in a literary conviction. You believe not because I told you, or the Preacher, or you read about him in a book, you just simply believe. This is Holy Spirit revelation, and is the only form of true faith. I know to some this will sound strange, but to those who know, it will not.

Paul said that the Preaching of the Cross was the power unto Salvation, but to some it would be foolishness. What is wrong today is the weak watered down Gospel, preached form the pulpits in this land. All you have to do is say a little prayer, and that’s it. OSAS says don’t worry about your sins, they are covered, so you can go and sin all you want.

Paul also taught about Sin, Hell, and Salvation. Something that is very lacking from the Pulpits of today. Nobody wants to hear about Sin, or Hell, just the assurance of the good life in Christ. But this leads to a Materialistic, Sinful lifestyle that is no different than it was before they made their empty profession.

Jesus asked why do ye call me Lord - Lord, and do not what I say. The verse below is his commandment, I hear a lot of people who say they believe in Christ, but I don’t see a lot of People who have the Love of Christ. This is what a changed life is all about.

1John:3:23: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

 

[Adullam]

Believing “in†or “intoâ€Â, it makes no difference in the word you use. When Jesus asked the Apostles, who do the people say I am. Some replied Elijah, some said John the Baptist. Only one received true revelation from the Father, that was Peter. He said I believe you are the Christ, the Son of God.

Jesus said on this rock, I will build my Church, not Peter, but the true revelation of faith given from the Father. There is a difference between Literary faith, and divine faith. Many today believe in Christ because they have read about him, or the Preacher told them, and they trust the Preacher.

They have a form of Godliness, but lack any power; the proof of changed lives. True faith in Christ comes from the Heart, it cannot be defined, and does not rest in a literary conviction. You believe not because I told you, or the Preacher, or you read about him in a book, you just simply believe. This is Holy Spirit revelation, and is the only form of true faith. I know to some this will sound strange, but to those who know, it will not.

Paul said that the Preaching of the Cross was the power unto Salvation, but to some it would be foolishness. What is wrong today is the weak watered down Gospel, preached form the pulpits in this land. All you have to do is say a little prayer, and that’s it. OSAS says don’t worry about your sins, they are covered, so you can go and sin all you want.

Paul also taught about Sin, Hell, and Salvation. Something that is very lacking from the Pulpits of today. Nobody wants to hear about Sin, or Hell, just the assurance of the good life in Christ. But this leads to a Materialistic, Sinful lifestyle that is no different than it was before they made their empty profession.

Jesus asked why do ye call me Lord - Lord, and do not what I say. The verse below is his commandment, I hear a lot of people who say they believe in Christ, but I don’t see a lot of People who have the Love of Christ. This is what a changed life is all about.

1John:3:23: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Words do make a difference. It's what the bible uses to convey it's meaning. The bible doesn't mention literary faith, for example. That is your term. Let us stick with what is written. Let us try to understand the meaning of the words as they are written. By ignoring the written word you lose your case in possibly communicating something you have experienced with others. It's about ...who says so? There is a direct relationship between understanding and experiencing the word of God. I am trying to make it as unsubjective as possible that understanding might flood in. My own subjective experience is my testimony. This is different from teaching from the word.

John

 

[samuel]

Granted words do make a difference, as those of the KJV, or Modern Versions. And teaching is not an option, but a necessity.

But the words in or into, make no difference unless you have an understanding of into WHAT. You have to have spirit given faith, to believe in Christ, a literal one does not count. And its not just my choice of terms, it is used by many.

I can keep on brow beating you about anything, and sooner or later you will accept it. But I do not believe in brow beating people into a so-called faith in Christ, either you have it, or you don't.

I have little patience with those who say - "says who".

 

[Adullam]

Granted words do make a difference, as those of the KJV, or Modern Versions. And teaching is not an option, but a necessity.

But the words in or into, make no difference unless you have an understanding of into WHAT. You have to have spirit given faith, to believe in Christ, a literal one does not count. And its not just my choice of terms, it is used by many.

I can keep on brow beating you about anything, and sooner or later you will accept it. But I do not believe in brow beating people into a so-called faith in Christ, either you have it, or you don't.

I have little patience with those who say - "says who".

The...Says who....is very important again. Paul makes the distinction between what he believed and what the Lord showed him or said to him. (This makes him more trustworthy.) A false prophet, for instance, speaks from himself, and not from God. We must make the distinction between what we believe to be right and what the writers of the bible actually say. In other words, the bible has more weight than our words. Prophets of old used to begin with "Thus saith the Lord"...until false prophets copied them, thus rendering the statement generic.

Believers today are taught "positional" doctrines. They mean that even though nothing has happened to you in this world, that God sees you a whole lot different. They teach that grace is only for the next world.....you cannot overcome sin and be conformed to Christ in this life....that's well IMPOSSIBLE!

But the gospel says precisely the opposite. If we abide in Christ, we cannot sin. If we abide in Christ we can walk even as He walked. We are to believe to Christ...into Christ, so that we live in Him and He in us. Then we can live FROM Him!!!! (Abide in Me and Me in you...) (It is no longer I who live...) etc..

Everybody seems to know a lot about Jesus....but not Jesus Himself. They are on the outside looking in. A Christian on the other hand is to be on the inside looking out. It's similar in wording but diametrically opposed in reality.

So it is with believing in Christ (from ourselves) and believing into Christ (and living from our new location within Him). These are opposites.

 

[samuel]

How do you conclude on whether a person believes, in or into Christ. And what do you propose! makes the difference.

And just how would you go about changing their position.

 

[mondar]

I have taken introductory level New Testament Greek and we discussed the usage of eis in various passages, and in certain contexts it can simply mean "in". Eis is more precisely understood as "into" in cases - for example - where it is used in conjunction with baptism: baptism "into" the water, or "into" the Spirit. The distinction between "in" an "into" here in this particular passage is virtually null in any case, because if anyone thought "believe in" meant "think of" or "intellectually accept" Christ then they misunderstood the entire meaning of the verse. "Whosoever believes in Him" (John 3:16) means to place trust in something outside yourself, indeed even "into Christ". If we do not trust Christ, the words He has spoken, or trust that the Gospel (Christ's atonement and resurrection) is true then we cannot receive salvation through faith. "In" is a correct/sufficient translation here at any rate, it just must be properly understood.

God Bless,

~Josh

Josh, good post. The whole point of cognative or mere intellectual acceptance of certain facts has little to do with the greek prepositions. Worse yet, after your post more comments were made that separate the biblical concepts of faith and belief. Yet both words are english translations of the greek word "pisteuw."

I am curious what texts you used to learn grammar? If you are familiar with Dana and Mante, there is a good chart on the meaning of the prepositions. I am referring to the chart with the circle.

 

[Adullam]

I have taken introductory level New Testament Greek and we discussed the usage of eis in various passages, and in certain contexts it can simply mean "in". Eis is more precisely understood as "into" in cases - for example - where it is used in conjunction with baptism: baptism "into" the water, or "into" the Spirit. The distinction between "in" an "into" here in this particular passage is virtually null in any case, because if anyone thought "believe in" meant "think of" or "intellectually accept" Christ then they misunderstood the entire meaning of the verse. "Whosoever believes in Him" (John 3:16) means to place trust in something outside yourself, indeed even "into Christ". If we do not trust Christ, the words He has spoken, or trust that the Gospel (Christ's atonement and resurrection) is true then we cannot receive salvation through faith. "In" is a correct/sufficient translation here at any rate, it just must be properly understood.

God Bless,

~Josh

Josh, good post. The whole point of cognative or mere intellectual acceptance of certain facts has little to do with the greek prepositions. Worse yet, after your post more comments were made that separate the biblical concepts of faith and belief. Yet both words are english translations of the greek word "pisteuw."

I am curious what texts you used to learn grammar? If you are familiar with Dana and Mante, there is a good chart on the meaning of the prepositions. I am referring to the chart with the circle.

These are the same excuses as the Jews use to escape the witness of Jesus being the promised Messiah of the OT. Who decides when into and in are used for eis? Clerics. They teach us what not to believe in (or into). What is your doctrine doing for you? Does one overcome sin by accepting Jesus? Or must one be found in Him to be an overcomer?

 

[Adullam]

How do you conclude on whether a person believes, in or into Christ. And what do you propose! makes the difference.

And just how would you go about changing their position.

Whether there is power or not.

It is important for followers of Christ to avail themselves of the available grace in this life. It will be too late when we stand before Him. Now is the time to advance in the kingdom and advance the kingdom.

Pax

John