Bible Study WELCOME TO A DEEP LOOK AT GENESIS

[jasonc]

So this young man acted like any other young man and he gets cursed?
Still seems way harsh to me!

his dad was naked and drunk, rather then cover him up. he lets him lie there. if one is that drunk. I bet he crapped himself and also was nasty. I bet the other two cleaned him and then covered him up. and scolded him later. what would you do then and remember whenever theres a curse theres usually a habit of this stuff not just once. that is why Judah was Jacob first born and not Rueben. Rueben was born first then slept with one of Jacob's wifes and Jacob on his death bed made Judah the first born.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

(here)

compare:

Leviticus 18
English Standard Version (ESV)

Unlawful Sexual Relations
18 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, I am the Lord your God. 3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not walk in their statutes. 4 You shall follow my rules and keep my statutes and walk in them. I am the Lord your God. 5 You shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; if a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the Lord.

6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is your father's nakedness. 9 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home. 10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son's daughter or of your daughter's daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness. 11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, brought up in your father's family, since she is your sister. 12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's relative. 13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's relative. 14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. 15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; it is your brother's nakedness. 17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are relatives; it is depravity. 18 And you shall not take a woman as a rival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness while her sister is still alive.

19 “You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 And you shall not lie sexually with your neighbor's wife and so make yourself unclean with her. 21 You shall not give any of your children to offer them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 18
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)


18 Adonai said to Moshe, 2 “Speak to the people of Isra’el; tell them, ‘I am Adonai your God. 3 You are not to engage in the activities found in the land of Egypt, where you used to live; and you are not to engage in the activities found in the land of Kena‘an, where I am bringing you; nor are you to live by their laws. 4 You are to obey my rulings and laws and live accordingly; I am Adonai your God. 5 You are to observe my laws and rulings; if a person does them, he will have life through them; I am Adonai.

(LY: vi) 6 “‘None of you is to approach anyone who is a close relative in order to have sexual relations; I am Adonai. 7 You are not to have sexual relations with your father, and you are not to have sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother — do not have sexual relations with her. 8 You are not to have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that is your father’s prerogative. 9 You are not to have sexual relations with your sister, the daughter of your father or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or elsewhere. Do not have sexual relations with them. 10 You are not to have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or with your daughter’s daughter. Do not have sexual relations with them, because their sexual disgrace will be your own. 11 You are not to have sexual relations with your father’s wife’s daughter, born to your father, because she is your sister; do not have sexual relations with her. 12 You are not to have sexual relations with your father’s sister, because she is your father’s close relative. 13 You are not to have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative. 14 You are not to disgrace your father’s brother by having sexual relations with his wife, because she is your aunt. 15 You are not to have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law; because she is your son’s wife. Do not have sexual relations with her. 16 You are not to have sexual relations with your brother’s wife, because this is your brother’s prerogative.

17 “‘You are not to have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter, nor are you to have sexual relations with her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are close relatives of hers, and it would be shameful. 18 You are not to take a woman to be a rival with her sister and have sexual relations with her while her sister is still alive. 19 You are not to approach a woman in order to have sexual relations with her when she is unclean from her time of niddah. 20 You are not to go to bed with your neighbor’s wife and thus become unclean with her.

21 “‘You are not to let any of your children be sacrificed to Molekh, thereby profaning the name of your God; I am Adonai.

(RY: iv, LY: vii) 22 “‘You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

i.e. it didn't refer to seeing his dad naked. the phrase "uncover his father's nakedness" was a common Jewish phrase for sleeping with his wife. same with other relatives.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

quik web search >
Leviticus 20:11 "'If a man has sexual relations with his ...
"'The man who lies with his father's wife has uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.biblehub.com/leviticus/20-11.htm
Ham "Saw the nakedness of his father" - What does it mean??
... and 'to uncover Noah's nakedness' would be to have illicit sexual relations with his wife. ... Absalom drove King David out of Jerusalem and then slept with his ...www.ukapologetics.net/canaan.html
He uncovered his father's nakedness - BibleResearcher.org
Simply put, to uncover the nakedness of one's father is to sleep with one's father's wife! Please see the following verses below, from the book of Leviticus ...www.bibleresearcher.org/Bible/comments/Genesis-9-22...
What did Ham realy do? - Sermon Index - SermonIndex.net
It doesn't say that he slept with his Mother. ... And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: ...www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=...
His father's nakedness..? - Yahoo
Levitus 20:11.."And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness ... The guy slept with his own mother, ...https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=...
Who Uncovered The Nakedness Of Noah? - General Christian ...
And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: ... When Ham “uncovered his father’s nakedness, Ham slept with his fathers ...www.christianityboard.com/topic/11868-who-uncovered-the...
(My) Father’s Nakedness : Edgar Phillips
And the man who lies carnally with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s ... when Jacob’s eldest son Reuben slept with Bilhah, he slept with his father ...www.edgarphillips.org/wordpress/?p=2158
Uncovering Noah's Nakedness - Men As Trees Teaching Ministries
... "to sleep with your father’s wife." Leviticus 20:11 The man that lieth with his father’s wife, hath uncovered his father’s nakedness.menastreesministry.org/studies/UncoveringNoahsNakedness.htm
His father's nakedness..? - Yahoo Answers
Levitus 20:11.."And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness ... The guy slept with his own mother, ...answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061019133955AAL3vuM
Why did Noah curse Ham / Canaan? - GotQuestions.org
... he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. Ham, the father of Canaan, ... "The man who lies with his father's wife has uncovered his father's nakedness ...www.gotquestions.org/curse-Ham-Canaan.html

 

[jasonc]

i.e. it didn't refer to seeing his dad naked. the phrase "uncover his father's nakedness" was a common Jewish phrase for sleeping with his wife. same with other relatives.

then why would his son's go in and cover him when he was drunk? that is what that was about. im familiar with the levitical law on that but the other sons would have seen his dad naked and then their mom as they went in covered noah up.
Verse 21

He drank of the wine, etc. - It is very probable that this was the first time the wine was cultivated; and it is as probable that the strength or intoxicating power of the expressed juice was never before known. Noah, therefore, might have drunk it at this time without the least blame, as he knew not till this trial the effects it would produce. I once knew a case which I believe to be perfectly parallel. A person who had scarcely ever heard of cider, and whose beverage through his whole life had been only milk or water, coming wet and very much fatigued to a farmer‘s house in Somersetshire, begged for a little water or milk. The good woman of the house, seeing him very much exhausted, kindly said, “I will give you a little cider, which will do you more good.” The honest man, understanding no more of cider than merely that it was the simple juice of apples, after some hesitation drank about a half pint of it; the consequence was, that in less than half an hour he was perfectly intoxicated, and could neither speak plain nor walk! This case I myself witnessed. A stranger to the circumstances, seeing this person, would pronounce him drunk; and perhaps at a third hand he might be represented as a drunkard, and thus his character be blasted; while of the crime of drunkenness he was as innocent as an infant.
This I presume to have been precisely the case with Noah; and no person without an absolute breach of every rule of charity and candour, can attach any blame to the character of Noah on this ground, unless from a subsequent account they were well assured that, knowing the power and effects of the liquor, he had repeated the act. Some expositors seem to be glad to fix on a fact like this, which by their distortion becomes a crime; and then, in a strain of sympathetic tenderness, affect to deplore “the failings and imperfections of the best of men;” when, from the interpretation that should be given of the place, neither failing nor imperfection can possibly appear.


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Verses 22-24

And Ham, the father of Canaan, etc. - There is no occasion to enter into any detail here; the sacred text is circumstantial enough. Ham, and very probably his son Canaan, had treated their father on this occasion with contempt or reprehensible levity. Had Noah not been innocent, as my exposition supposes him, God would not have endued him with the spirit of prophecy on this occasion, and testified such marked disapprobation of their conduct. The conduct of Shem and Japheth was such as became pious and affectionate children, who appear to have been in the habit of treating their father with decency, reverence, and obedient respect. On the one the spirit of prophecy (not the incensed father) pronounces a curse: on the others the same spirit (not parental tenderness) pronounces a blessing. These things had been just as they afterwards occurred had Noah never spoken. God had wise and powerful reasons to induce him to sentence the one to perpetual servitude, and to allot to the others prosperity and dominion. Besides, the curse pronounced on Canaan neither fell immediately upon himself nor on his worthless father, but upon the Canaanites; and from the history we have of this people, in Leviticus 18:6, Leviticus 18:7, Leviticus 18:24, Leviticus 18:29, Leviticus 18:30, Leviticus 20:9, Leviticus 20:22-24, Leviticus 20:26; and Deuteronomy 9:4; Deuteronomy 12:31, we may ask, Could the curse of God fall more deservedly on any people than on these? Their profligacy was great, but it was not the effect of the curse; but, being foreseen by the Lord, the curse was the effect of their conduct. But even this curse does not exclude them from the possibility of obtaining salvation; it extends not to the soul and to eternity, but merely to their bodies and to time; though, if they continued to abuse their liberty, resist the Holy Ghost, and refuse to be saved on God‘s terms, then the wrath of Divine justice must come upon them to the uttermost. How many, even of these, repented, we cannot tell.
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adam Clarke on that. noah was drunk. I understand the reducation but it doesn't fit in that noah was in the tent and was a naked. so he sleep with noah?

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Genesis 9:18-25
“Now the sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And Ham was the father of Canaan. These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole earth was populated. And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyard. Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. Then he said: “Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants He shall be to his brethren.”

Most students of the Bible interpret the Scripture, “And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father…” to mean that Ham either saw his father, Noah, naked, or that he had a sexual encounter with him. This is not so!

Leviticus 18:8 states, “The nakedness of your father’s wife you shall not uncover; it is your father’s nakedness.” Also, Leviticus 20:11 states, “The man who lies with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness…” Thus, Ham’s sin was that he had intercourse with his father’s wife, Ham’s mother or stepmother, while Noah was incapacitated from drinking!

This sin of incest produced a child, Canaan. After Canaan was conceived, Noah cursed Ham’s descendants, condemning them to become “servants” (slaves) to Shem and Japheth. (The word “Canaan” means, “humiliated” and the verb form of his name means, “to bend the knee.”) Of course, the fact that Noah cursed Ham’s descendants begs the question, Why would Noah, who was a “preacher of righteousness” (2 Pet. 2:5), curse innocent children, especially his own descendants? The answer may be that after sinning, Ham remained unrepentant and that Noah understood that he (Ham) would rear his children apart from God’s counsel (Prov. 22:6) and blessings (Deut. 28). Thus, it is likely that Noah cursed Ham’s descendents in order to bring them to repentance.

 

[jasonc]

im going to disagree. there is a man well versed in the torah and I can vouch for him and he is a moderator here. he has studied the torah indepth and has used ramban and other jewish sources to teach exodus. we discussed this verse and he mentioned that but in the case of noah its the man was drunk and naked. plain reading tells you what went on. besides the curse was upon canaan and the canannites. which are his name sake.

“Now the sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And Ham was the father of Canaan. These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole earth was populated. And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyard. Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. Then he said: “Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants He shall be to his brethren.”

become uncovered.he was drunk and was so drunk he took his clothes off and didn't take a blanket and when ham went in he rather then cover him up, he mocked him.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

simply let scripture define scripture, and it clearly defines what "uncovering his father's nakedness" is, and it doesn't refer to seeing him naked, (which also would not bring such a curse with it(as noted by many sources readily searchable), from anything in Scripture).

 

[jasonc]

simply let scripture define scripture, and it clearly defines what "uncovering his father's nakedness" is, and it doesn't refer to seeing him naked, (which also would not bring such a curse with it(as noted by many sources readily searchable), from anything in Scripture).

noah was naked. sorry that is the word. he become uncovered. what does that mean?

noah being the antecedent tell you that noah was naked, not his wife. I believe noah was so drunk that either he was slept like that and also moved his bowels upon himself in the bed. I have seen drunks do that. the most recent one was when a soldier was too drunk to make it to the latrine so he turned and urinated on another soldiers head.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

thankfully, others who know hebrew figures of speech have explained in detail, as well as in Scripture, what "he uncovered his father's nakedness" means. (and why such a strong curse was made against the one who slept with his father's wife).
also, what "to uncover your sisters nakedness"
and so on, it is all clearly defined , plainly , in scripture .... let scripture define scripture. there are many figures of speech used, and english hardly explains any of them with knowledge of Hebrew.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Simply put, to uncover the nakedness of one's father is to sleep with one's father's wife! Please see the following verses below, from the book of Leviticus ...www.bibleresearcher.org/Bible/comments/Genesis-9-22...

 

[Deborah13]

So this young man acted like any other young man and he gets cursed?
Still seems way harsh to me!

His brothers did not act that way. They honored their father.

 

[reba]

Not a debate forum guys

 

[jasonc]

I have said enough.

 

[Chopper]

OK guys, no one is going to straiten this out. So we have two opinions. Let it go please.

 

[reba]

Gen 10:1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
Gen 10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
Gen 10:3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
Gen 10:4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
Gen 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
Gen 10:6 And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
Gen 10:7 And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtecha: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
Gen 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
Gen 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
Gen 10:10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
Gen 10:11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
Gen 10:12 And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city.
Gen 10:13 And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim,
Gen 10:14 And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim.
Gen 10:15 And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth,
Gen 10:16 And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite,
Gen 10:17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,
Gen 10:18 And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad.
Gen 10:19 And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.
Gen 10:20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.
Gen 10:21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.
Gen 10:22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.
Gen 10:23 And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.
Gen 10:24 And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber.
Gen 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
Gen 10:26 And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah,
Gen 10:27 And Hadoram, and Uzal, and Diklah,
Gen 10:28 And Obal, and Abimael, and Sheba,
Gen 10:29 And Ophir, and Havilah, and Jobab: all these were the sons of Joktan.
Gen 10:30 And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou goest unto Sephar a mount of the east.
Gen 10:31 These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.
Gen 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

 

[reba]

Chopper you didnt tell us the verses for today ... or i could nt find it?

 

[Chopper]

Chopper you didnt tell us the verses for today ... or i could nt find it?

Sorry, being so late, I haven't had a chance.

Tomorrows study 5/15/14 Genesis The whole Chapter 11.

 

[Chopper]

Day 28 5/14/14 Genesis Chapter 10 Noah's Generations.

I'm sorry, I don't have the time to comment very much today, way to busy.

Japheth's descendants settled along the Coastal regions and islands of the Mediterranean Sea.

Ham's descendants ended up being Israel's enemies, such as the Egyptians, Babylonians, Philistines, and various Canaanite groups. Cush, Ham's son, fathered Nimrod. We will see more of him later.

Shem's descendants got along with Israel, and Abraham was descended from Shem. Perhaps someone else could comment further on this Chapter.

 

[Chopper]

Day 29 5/15/14 Genesis Chapter 11 The tower of Babel.