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Bible Study WELCOME TO A DEEP LOOK AT GENESIS

Deborah13 said:
KJV
Gen 16:13 And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?
Gen 16:14 Wherefore the well was called Beerlahairoi; behold, it is between Kadesh and Bered.

I think it is interesting what Hagar says. She appears to say that she was calling on or seeking help from God and when He speaks to her she recognizes that He actual saw her in her affliction.
She is sitting at the well in Shur, she dedicates the well calling it Beerlahairoi which means, Him who lives and sees me (or lifted up). (per esword note)
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I wonder what the implications are here if we suggest Ishmael is the Father of Islam. We usually consider Muslims to be unsaved and worshiping a false God and yet Yahweh spoke to Hagar and blessed Ishmael to become a great nation because of Abraham.
 
agua. said:
I wonder what the implications are here if we suggest Ishmael is the Father of Islam. We usually consider Muslims to be unsaved and worshiping a false God and yet Yahweh spoke to Hagar and blessed Ishmael to become a great nation because of Abraham.
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Ishmael wasn't the father of Islam. He was the father of Arabs. Arabs didn't become Muslims until round 2500 -3000 years after Ismael died.

The TOG​
 
and there is a lot of speculative 'evidence' that a p oh p e started islam as part of romes plan to get control of both Jerusalem and the whole world. That, whether actual or not, fits in with all that's known about rome and its plan from the beginning for world domination.
 
agua. said:
I wonder what the implications are here if we suggest Ishmael is the Father of Islam. We usually consider Muslims to be unsaved and worshiping a false God and yet Yahweh spoke to Hagar and blessed Ishmael to become a great nation because of Abraham.
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The god of Islam, allah, maybe be referred to as the God of Abraham, but he is not the same God we worship nor is he the same one Ismael worshipped.
In any event, HERE is a link I found about Hagar, who was Egyptian.
 
TOG said:
Ishmael wasn't the father of Islam. He was the father of Arabs. Arabs didn't become Muslims until round 2500 -3000 years after Ismael died.

The TOG​
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Ah that makes sense TOG. So do you think the blessing of Yahweh to Ishmael because of Abraham was to be the nation of Arabs and the subset of Muslims isn't relevant ? Also do you think this blessing was only an earthly one ?
 
agua. said:
I wonder what the implications are here if we suggest Ishmael is the Father of Islam. We usually consider Muslims to be unsaved and worshiping a false God and yet Yahweh spoke to Hagar and blessed Ishmael to become a great nation because of Abraham.
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TOG gave the answer to your question.
I just add that the description of him is irrelevant I think.

Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
 
Deborah13 said:
TOG gave the answer to your question.
I just add that the description of him is irrelevant I think.

Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
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Irrelevant or relevant ?
 
agua. said:
Ah that makes sense TOG. So do you think the blessing of Yahweh to Ishmael because of Abraham was to be the nation of Arabs and the subset of Muslims isn't relevant ? Also do you think this blessing was only an earthly one ?
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Everything God says is relevant. I think the promise God made to Ishmael was earthly, because it doesn't mention anything spiritual, just that he would become a great nation. God keeps His promises, even when we prove unfaithful to Him. Take Noah as an example. God still keeps His promise to him and all his descendants, even though most of them do not follow God. I think it's the same with Ishmael. God promised to make him a great nation, and there were no conditions. Even though most Arabs follow a false religion, God still keeps His promises.

The TOG​
 
Chopper said:
Day's 36 & 37 5/22 & 5/23 Today & Tomorrow Genesis Chapter 16.

I have combined these two days because I'm having a colonoscopy on Friday.

Here we have Sarai, apparently impatient for an heir to her husband. Her solution was to offer her maidservant Hagar to Abram so that a son could be born in her place....Oh great Sarai!! Now you're going to play God? Oh oh, I smell trouble coming!

As a result, Hagar does get pregnant and then gloats about it in front of Sarai. Sarai is now upset and treats Hagar with contempt. Hagar flees and heads back to her home town in Egypt. She makes it as far as Shur and the Angel of the Lord meets her with a message to return to Sarai and submit to her.

The Angel of the Lord promises Hagar a great multitude of people thru her son Ishmael. The Angel also told Hagar that God has been keeping track of all that has been happening to her.

The Angel of the Lord also prophesies what these people born from her son Ishmael will be like. "A wild donkey of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him". That certainly has held true as far as the nations of Islam are concerned.
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I've wondered here Chop that Abraham took Hagar as his wife and not a concubine.

Oh I'm guessing the procedure is over how did it go Bro ?
 
Day 38 Saturday 5/24/14 Genesis Chapter 17 The Covenant of Circumcision.

Wow! 99 years old. My Mother died and went home to be with Jesus at 99....Here we have Abram who is like a young man! Old age for him was not an event to be concerned because of the Lord blessing him and he lived another 76 years!

Abram gets a new name, Abraham, as well as a new Covenant. What a wonderful Covenant it is!
Gen 17:7 "And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you.
Gen 17:8 And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God."

The "Sign of the Covenant" is circumcision which does not appear outward but is hidden. I have always wondered about that, why a sign that is not visible? Does anyone have an idea? How is anyone going to know that a man or stranger is really circumcised? The age of circumcision is eight days old.

Not only has the new name Abraham been given to Adam, but Sarai gets the new name Sarah. V.17 shows Abraham falling on his face in laughter at the mention of he and Sarah bearing children at 100 & 90 years of age. Apparently, Abraham's laughter received no rebuke from the Lord which is strange to me because Sara's laughter was not received well....Anyone know why?

The Chapter ends with all the men in Abraham's household being circumcised.
 
The "Sign of the Covenant" is circumcision which does not appear outward but is hidden. I have always wondered about that, why a sign that is not visible? Does anyone have an idea? How is anyone going to know that a man or stranger is really circumcised? The age of circumcision is eight days old.
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Rom_2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom_2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

A shadow of the real

.
Anyone know why?
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God got the last laugh, the circumcision :)
 
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
God's covenant carried a condition...
 
Chopper said:
The "Sign of the Covenant" is circumcision which does not appear outward but is hidden. I have always wondered about that, why a sign that is not visible? Does anyone have an idea? How is anyone going to know that a man or stranger is really circumcised?
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The sign of a covenant, whether this covenant or any other, is not to let everyone else know that a person is in the covenant, but to remind the members of the covenant of the rights and responsibilities that they have as a result of the covenant. The Sabbath is the sign of the covenant at Mt. Sinai.

You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. (Ex. 31:13 ESV)​

It's that you may know, not that everybody else may know.

The age of circumcision is eight days old.

Chopper said:
Not only has the new name Abraham been given to Adam,
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I assume you meant "Abram".

Chopper said:
but Sarai gets the new name Sarah. V.17 shows Abraham falling on his face in laughter at the mention of he and Sarah bearing children at 100 & 90 years of age. Apparently, Abraham's laughter received no rebuke from the Lord which is strange to me because Sara's laughter was not received well....Anyone know why?
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The Bible doesn't say, but I would think it had something to do with what was behind the laughter. Perhaps Sarah laughed out of disbelief while Abraham laughed out of amazement at what God was going to do.

The TOG​
 
Gen_17:17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

Gen 18:12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?

I think Abraham was in unbelief as Sarah was, they both asked about the say question.
However, Abraham laughed out loud but Sarah wasn't open about it. I think the Lord was pointing out to her that He knew her thoughts, she couldn't hide anything from Him and that it was pointless to then try to lie about it, He would know.
 
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