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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Bible Study WELCOME TO A DEEP LOOK AT GENESIS
- Thread starter Chopper
- Start date
Notice something concerning Abraham’s and Sarah’s laughs. God looks upon the heart and didn’t question Abraham’s heart but explained His intentions, but did so with Sarah. He rightly Judges. 1 Sam 16:7 . . the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.Gen 18:13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
Can you see Abraham puzzled, "I am I going deaf? I didn't hear Sarah laugh or say anything?"
Gen 17:17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
Gen 18:12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
Gen 18:13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
Gen 18:15 Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
oh, good morning ! in Yeshua. Perhaps, for another thread , if someone wants to find out.
Yes, homosexuality is a sin, and it is a sin that leads many to death (physical and spiritual) or to remain dead and separate from God forever. However, there was another sin in s and g that is even more widespread , and for which the cities were destroyed as well. That is the oppression of the poor - a lack of generous giving to those in need of food and clothes, and perhaps shelter, while the greedy had more than enough and lived in riotous living and squandered money on pleasures (like they would have on big screen tv's today, or new cars ever 3 years, or jacuzzi's) while ignoring the plight of those who were hungry and thirsty in their own neighborhood/city.
Still, an even greater crime today.
And in africa, the ... ... ... ... well, lets just say , to get more money, millions were diagnosed(women and children) with a certain disease that do not have the certain disease......
(self-edited/shortened to move to another thread later)
Yes, homosexuality is a sin, and it is a sin that leads many to death (physical and spiritual) or to remain dead and separate from God forever. However, there was another sin in s and g that is even more widespread , and for which the cities were destroyed as well. That is the oppression of the poor - a lack of generous giving to those in need of food and clothes, and perhaps shelter, while the greedy had more than enough and lived in riotous living and squandered money on pleasures (like they would have on big screen tv's today, or new cars ever 3 years, or jacuzzi's) while ignoring the plight of those who were hungry and thirsty in their own neighborhood/city.
Still, an even greater crime today.
And in africa, the ... ... ... ... well, lets just say , to get more money, millions were diagnosed(women and children) with a certain disease that do not have the certain disease......
(self-edited/shortened to move to another thread later)
Last edited by a moderator:
Deborah13
Member
- Nov 30, 2012
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These are some of the questions I asked myself when I read this scripture.
When Abraham laughed did he ask the same questions in his heart as Sarah did?
What did Sarah do that was different than what Abraham did?
When did the Lord rebuke Sarah?
What did He rebuke her for?
What question should I have asked that you see, that I do not?
Or what answers do you see that I was incorrect about?
A
agua.
Guest
Day 40 Monday 5/26/14 Genesis 18:16-33 How Many?
I'm always impressed when I see the word "down" when its connected with a City or people, it usually has a bad connotation. "The men set out from there, and they looked down toward Sodom." Sodom is appropriately named! The Hebrew word for Sodom is "scorch", Ha, Ha,
Before going down to destroy Sodom, there was a conversation with the Lord and His two angelic companions. The Jewish Talmud (K) identifies the two as Michael, and Gabriel. Dr. Lightfoot identifies the three as the Trinity. The result was to inform Abraham of their plans to destroy Sodom if what they are noted for is true. Because thru Abraham, righteousness must be established and the sin of homosexuality will result in death, Abraham was included in these decisions for future reference.
Two of the "men" went down to scout out Sodom while Abraham stayed with the LORD (Jehovah). Abraham did not want his nephew Lot and family to be destroyed along with the Sodomites so he engages Jehovah in a numbers game. The outcome was, if there were 10 righteous people in Sodom, it would not be destroyed. What a sad outcome because only Lot and family were saved. Jehovah went His way and Abraham went home.
It shows how the world continued in the same manner after the flood Chop eh. Less that 10 righteous people in a whole city
I can begin to see the reasons developing why Yahweh brought forth Isaac and the Nation of Israel.
Chopper
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- Aug 11, 2013
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- #686
Day 41 Tuesday 5/27/14 Genesis 19:1-22 Get Out Of Dodge, err, Sodom.
Welcome to Choppers Digest
As I begin this Chapter, I'm in awe of the fact that the Scripture identifies in Chapter 18 that Jehovah Himself somehow takes the form of a man and appears to Abraham. I'm at a loss of understanding how the Almighty is able to harness all the Glory, brilliance and power to accomplish a Divine manifestation in the appearance of a man. The word LORD is Jehovah. This must be a critical turning point in the affairs of mankind for God to commune with His special servant Abraham.
The two "men" entered the city of Sodom, and Lot sitting at the gate greets the strangers, and his greeting and provisions in his home parallel that of Abraham.
The Scripture points out that the "men of the city, both young and old wanted homosexual relations with the two strangers in Lot's home. Lot's decision to send out his two own daughters to this sex crazed mob, is in my opinion shocking, cowardly, and inexcusable! Fortunately the Angelic strangers blinded the mob and saved the situation.
It appears that Lot and his potential son's in law were reluctant to leave, the boys thought it was a joke. Lot eventually does leave with his wife and two daughters. Lot for some reason only wanted to go as far as Zoar and not go to the hills. Perhaps he wanted to stay in the Valley rather than venture up into Abraham's territory. Nothing is said about Lots possessions, animals and servants.
Welcome to Choppers Digest
As I begin this Chapter, I'm in awe of the fact that the Scripture identifies in Chapter 18 that Jehovah Himself somehow takes the form of a man and appears to Abraham. I'm at a loss of understanding how the Almighty is able to harness all the Glory, brilliance and power to accomplish a Divine manifestation in the appearance of a man. The word LORD is Jehovah. This must be a critical turning point in the affairs of mankind for God to commune with His special servant Abraham.
The two "men" entered the city of Sodom, and Lot sitting at the gate greets the strangers, and his greeting and provisions in his home parallel that of Abraham.
The Scripture points out that the "men of the city, both young and old wanted homosexual relations with the two strangers in Lot's home. Lot's decision to send out his two own daughters to this sex crazed mob, is in my opinion shocking, cowardly, and inexcusable! Fortunately the Angelic strangers blinded the mob and saved the situation.
It appears that Lot and his potential son's in law were reluctant to leave, the boys thought it was a joke. Lot eventually does leave with his wife and two daughters. Lot for some reason only wanted to go as far as Zoar and not go to the hills. Perhaps he wanted to stay in the Valley rather than venture up into Abraham's territory. Nothing is said about Lots possessions, animals and servants.
Gen 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
Gen 19:2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
Gen 19:3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
Gen 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
Gen 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Gen 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
Gen 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
Gen 19:10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
Gen 19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
Gen 19:12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
Gen 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
Gen 19:14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
Gen 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
Gen 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
Gen 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
Gen 19:18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
Gen 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
Gen 19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
Gen 19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
Gen 19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
Gen 19:2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
Gen 19:3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
Gen 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
Gen 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Gen 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
Gen 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
Gen 19:10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
Gen 19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
Gen 19:12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
Gen 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
Gen 19:14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
Gen 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
Gen 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
Gen 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
Gen 19:18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
Gen 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
Gen 19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
Gen 19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
Gen 19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
This passage is showing sin for the cancer it is... It overtakes the body soul and spirit. How 'good' men will get into it trying to do the lesser evil... ( Creepy Lot's willingness to sacrifice his daughters.)
Blinded in their eyes as they were blinded in the heart/spirit.. the sin kept trying to grow and consume ... We see the same today.....
How could Lots S-I-Ls believe/trust him when he himself was not right...
2Co_6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
We see our churches today playing ball with sin...
Gen 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
The lack of faith shown in v. 19 is unimaginable
Yet there is Mercy and Grace....
Blinded in their eyes as they were blinded in the heart/spirit.. the sin kept trying to grow and consume ... We see the same today.....
How could Lots S-I-Ls believe/trust him when he himself was not right...
2Co_6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
We see our churches today playing ball with sin...
Gen 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
The lack of faith shown in v. 19 is unimaginable
Yet there is Mercy and Grace....
Hit um with the pin! I can just hear you Dad in what you said. GLORY!! GLORY!! 
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
shouldn't we believe what God's Word says about him ? (God never says what y'all are saying about him) >>>
2 Peter 2:4-8
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
4 For God did not spare the angels who sinned; on the contrary, he put them in gloomy dungeons lower than Sh’ol to be held for judgment. 5 And he did not spare the ancient world; on the contrary, he preserved Noach, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, and brought the Flood upon a world of ungodly people. 6 And he condemned the cities of S’dom and ‘Amora, reducing them to ashes and ruin, as a warning to those in the future who would live ungodly lives; 7 but he rescued Lot, a righteous man who was distressed by the debauchery of those unprincipled people; 8 for the wicked deeds which that righteous man saw and heard, as he lived among them, tormented his righteous heart day after day.
2 Peter 2:4-8
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
4 For God did not spare the angels who sinned; on the contrary, he put them in gloomy dungeons lower than Sh’ol to be held for judgment. 5 And he did not spare the ancient world; on the contrary, he preserved Noach, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, and brought the Flood upon a world of ungodly people. 6 And he condemned the cities of S’dom and ‘Amora, reducing them to ashes and ruin, as a warning to those in the future who would live ungodly lives; 7 but he rescued Lot, a righteous man who was distressed by the debauchery of those unprincipled people; 8 for the wicked deeds which that righteous man saw and heard, as he lived among them, tormented his righteous heart day after day.
Chopper
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Ah ha, so? Are you saying that the righteous Lot acted in a righteous manner presenting his virgin daughters to a sex crazed mob? Jeff, I'm simply relating what God's Word does say! I don't know what y'all are saying. Just a reminder, righteous men are capable of unrighteous deeds, and do!
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
God's Word doesn't say that Lot was wrong , nor does God's Word say that Lot was sinning. When King David, Moses, Ananias, Saphira, Peter, sinned, God's Word says they sinned.
God's Word says the Lot was Righteous, and that his soul was tormented by the wickedness around him.
When the crowd wanted the 2 visitors, Lot knew that was a vile abomination beyond description - to let the perverted crowd have 2 Righteous visitors . He offered his 2 daughters to protect the 2 Righteous visitors. They didn't tell him not to. They didn't chastise him. God's Word never says that Lot sinned there.
Note, if you want to, that the crowd did not get his daughters. This might or might not help you understand a little more, if you realize that. What if the crowd had gotten them ? Like today, is someone tried for murder if they think about what it would be like to murder a pervert but don't do anything ? Or are they tried if they do murder someone ?
God knows everything. The thoughts that Lot had as well as his whole life beginning to end. And God's Word says Lot was Righteous. God doesn't attribute any sin to Lot in this.
Then to the cities we live in. Thousands of babies are murdered callously every day. Perverts are not just 'welcome' members in chruches everywhere, they are PASTORS TOO. (in some). "Closet pagans" are posting online everyday. IF they slip up and promote their paganism openly, they might, just might, get censored or restricted. Otherwise, they 'feel' welcome and no need to repent of their sin or change their ways or obey God.
The point is, right now, today, we are inundated like Lot was with unrighteousness all around us.
Lot was still Righteous in the middle of a city destroyed for it's wickedness.
God said so.
Are we ?
Will we dare to speak so boldly against someone God calls Righteous,
especially if we don't speak up boldly about the unrighteousness practiced blatantly around us !? (online and in our country and right in our neighborhood)
Recall how many times God plainly and bluntly recorded the sin and sins of HIS people, HIS chosen and called out ones.
He never said Lot was wrong. He called Lot Righteous. He knew Lot inside and out. We don't - we have to rely on what God said.
God's Word says the Lot was Righteous, and that his soul was tormented by the wickedness around him.
When the crowd wanted the 2 visitors, Lot knew that was a vile abomination beyond description - to let the perverted crowd have 2 Righteous visitors . He offered his 2 daughters to protect the 2 Righteous visitors. They didn't tell him not to. They didn't chastise him. God's Word never says that Lot sinned there.
Note, if you want to, that the crowd did not get his daughters. This might or might not help you understand a little more, if you realize that. What if the crowd had gotten them ? Like today, is someone tried for murder if they think about what it would be like to murder a pervert but don't do anything ? Or are they tried if they do murder someone ?
God knows everything. The thoughts that Lot had as well as his whole life beginning to end. And God's Word says Lot was Righteous. God doesn't attribute any sin to Lot in this.
Then to the cities we live in. Thousands of babies are murdered callously every day. Perverts are not just 'welcome' members in chruches everywhere, they are PASTORS TOO. (in some). "Closet pagans" are posting online everyday. IF they slip up and promote their paganism openly, they might, just might, get censored or restricted. Otherwise, they 'feel' welcome and no need to repent of their sin or change their ways or obey God.
The point is, right now, today, we are inundated like Lot was with unrighteousness all around us.
Lot was still Righteous in the middle of a city destroyed for it's wickedness.
God said so.
Are we ?
Will we dare to speak so boldly against someone God calls Righteous,
especially if we don't speak up boldly about the unrighteousness practiced blatantly around us !? (online and in our country and right in our neighborhood)
Recall how many times God plainly and bluntly recorded the sin and sins of HIS people, HIS chosen and called out ones.
He never said Lot was wrong. He called Lot Righteous. He knew Lot inside and out. We don't - we have to rely on what God said.
Lots is a sinner saved by grace.. King David a man after God's own heart was an adulterer , murderer ,, a sinner saved by grace... Being a man after God's own heart does not mean every thing he ever did was the right thing to do .... you and i are sinners saved by Grace.
Seems to me Lot tried to do the lesser of to evils and offered his daughters ... Seems to me he 'stepped out' to do this on his own as we often try to 'fix' things on our own...
We are righteous only because of Him. Mans righteousness is as filthy rags .... The message i read from you is you believe Lot was sinless . I dont.
Some how with having the proper words to explain my thoughts... Abraham's relationship with God had a lot to do with saving Lot ( no pun intended)
Gen_19:29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
Any more from me on this will have to be in a new thread... this is not a debate forum etc...
Seems to me Lot tried to do the lesser of to evils and offered his daughters ... Seems to me he 'stepped out' to do this on his own as we often try to 'fix' things on our own...
We are righteous only because of Him. Mans righteousness is as filthy rags .... The message i read from you is you believe Lot was sinless . I dont.
Some how with having the proper words to explain my thoughts... Abraham's relationship with God had a lot to do with saving Lot ( no pun intended)
Gen_19:29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
Any more from me on this will have to be in a new thread... this is not a debate forum etc...
Deborah13
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It seems to me that God had to step in and save Lot from a decision that he made all on his own.
Lot thinks he can save the angels and they end up having to save him.
Gen 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
Gen 19:10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
You remember that the angels didn't want to spend the night in Lot's house but Lot insisted. You don't suppose that maybe they knew there would be trouble for Lot if they did that.
Lot does give them unleavened bread. Good sign of Lot's good intentions towards these men. But sometimes all the good intentions one may have does not bring about good actions.
Ask God first.
Chopper
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I understand perfectly what you are proposing. God's Word says nothing either way. The title Righteous, is Lot's standing with God. Just in God's I'm righteous in Christ. Does that mean I'm never going to do something stupid? NO! Just like me, Lot was considered righteous as compared with his surroundings. Did he make a wise choice in deciding to live near a wicked city that vexed his righteous spirit? NO! His decision to go down in the valley was more of a fleshly decision IMO than a righteous one. I didn't say that Lot sinned, I said it was shocking. God's Word is silent as to Lot's motives and actions. I have made an observation based on revealed actions.
TOG
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I've always assumed that he wanted to live in a city rather than go to the hills. Maybe he was afraid of being called a hillbilly, but more likely he liked the comforts that come with city life.
The TOG
