Chopper
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How different was that circumcision from the one of Abraham's?
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Bible Study WELCOME TO A DEEP LOOK AT GENESIS
- Thread starter Chopper
- Start date
How different was that circumcision from the one of Abraham's?
it wasn't cut to the same length on the scrotum. a partial covering with a larger hole.stovebolts told me of this. he is reliable on this stuff.
Good grief ! The scrotum !!!!! I think you're talking about castration.
Chopper
Member
Day 115 Wednesday 8/13/14 Genesis 43:26-34 Merry Making.
I am using the Geneva Bible today.
Gen 43:26 "When Ioseph came home, they brought the present into the house to him, which was in their handes, and bowed downe to the grounde before him."
At last, Joseph is thru with the business of the day and returns home. Immediately, they brought the presents for Joseph out for him, I suppose that according to custom, they bowed down to the ground before Joseph, again bringing to remembrance Joseph's dreams. This won't make sense to the brothers until after they learn that this is indeed Joseph the dreamer.
I can just imagine the fear and amazement of the eleven brothers over the treatment that they were receiving. No arrest, no anger, only favor and grace. They of all people didn't deserve grace, but Joseph made sure that they were well favored.
Gen 43:27 "And he asked them of their prosperitie, and sayd, Is your father the olde man, of whome ye tolde me, in good health? is he yet aliue?"
Joseph asks about their welfare, "how ya doing?" Joseph was keenly interested in his family that he hadn't seen for over twenty years. There must have been that old homesick feeling when he saw again his brothers. Joseph was so very interested in how his father Jacob was doing, was he alive? Is he well? He was like a little boy who wanted his daddy.
Gen 43:28 Who answered, Thy seruant our father is in good health, he is yet aliue: and they bowed downe, and made obeysance.
One of the brothers, maybe Judah, told Joseph that their father was fine, in good health and very much alive. At this information, Joseph must have been overjoyed. At this point, in humility and a show of submission to a superior, they bow down.
Gen 43:29 "And he lifting vp his eyes, beheld his brother Beniamin his mothers sonne, and sayde, Is this your yonger brother, of whome ye tolde me? And he said, God be merciful vnto thee, my sone."
At last, Joseph looked up at the person who had not been there before, he must have thought, "is this my brother Benjamin? Is it really him?" We have to remember that Benjamin was his blood brother, born to Rachel, his mother. The other brothers were half brothers but Benjamin was his only true blood brother. The other brothers must have thought it strange that Joseph would say, "God be merciful to you my son."
Gen 43:30 And Ioseph made haste (for his affection was inflamed towarde his brother, and sought where to weepe) and entred into his chamber, and wept there.
Oh my, have you ever been in a situation when your emotions are at a peak and before you burst out weeping, you need to either turn away from the source or actually walk away? Then you know how Joseph must have felt. He hadn't seen Benjamin since his brothers was just a lad. Now he is a grown man, handsome like Joseph..I can just see Joseph now, entering his private chamber, bursting out in tears as the door closes.
Gen 43:31 Afterward he washed his face, & came out, and refrained himselfe, and sayd, Set on meate.
Who knows how long it took Joseph to compose himself, wash up and return to his brothers. It's a wonder that when he looked again of Benjamin, that he didn't burst out crying. I probably would have given the same circumstances. I remember coming home from work one day after my first wife had died, I walked into my lonely apartment and immediately burst out in tremendous bursts of wailing. To this day, when I visit her grave, I start to cry, I loved her so, so much.
After composing himself and returning to the room that everyone was in, Joseph commanded his servants to bring on the feast.
Gen 43:32 And they prepared for him by himselfe, and for them by themselues, and for the Egyptians, which did eate with him, by themselues, because the Egyptians might not eate bread with the Ebrewes: for that was an abomination vnto the Egyptians.
I find it interesting that each party sat a different tables. Mostly out of custom. The Egyptians looked down on the Hebrew people and it was an abomination to eat a meal with them. I suppose Joseph needed to separate himself from his family as to not break Egyptian customs. Word getting back to Pharaoh that Joseph was eating with Hebrews might not have settled very well with him.
Gen 43:34 "And they tooke meases from before him, and sent to them: but Beniamins mease was fiue times so much as any of theirs: and they drunke, and had of the best drinke with him."
If I hadn't been in the Army, I would never know what mess was, other than my bed room growing up. The Mess hall was where we ate all our meals, even when we were out in the field, I was in the "Berlin Conflict" in Germany looking down the barrel of a Russian rifle or a tank. Even in the field, we ate in the "mess tent." Most of us thought our food was a mess, and that's why it got that name.
It was the custom for the host of the dinner to allot to each guest his portion of food. For Benjamin, Joseph favored him with five time more than the rest. Oh, oh. Now Joseph is taking after his father when he showed more favor for Joseph, with his coat of many colors. He shows the same favoritism to Benjamin. It could be that he wanted his brothers to recall how he was favored, or just that he was so happy to see Benjamin that he wanted to shower him with grace.
After dining, apparently they were able to share a little wine together, just enough to calm the brothers nerves and to enjoy each others company which must have really confused Joseph's Egyptians servants.
I am using the Geneva Bible today.
Gen 43:26 "When Ioseph came home, they brought the present into the house to him, which was in their handes, and bowed downe to the grounde before him."
At last, Joseph is thru with the business of the day and returns home. Immediately, they brought the presents for Joseph out for him, I suppose that according to custom, they bowed down to the ground before Joseph, again bringing to remembrance Joseph's dreams. This won't make sense to the brothers until after they learn that this is indeed Joseph the dreamer.
I can just imagine the fear and amazement of the eleven brothers over the treatment that they were receiving. No arrest, no anger, only favor and grace. They of all people didn't deserve grace, but Joseph made sure that they were well favored.
Gen 43:27 "And he asked them of their prosperitie, and sayd, Is your father the olde man, of whome ye tolde me, in good health? is he yet aliue?"
Joseph asks about their welfare, "how ya doing?" Joseph was keenly interested in his family that he hadn't seen for over twenty years. There must have been that old homesick feeling when he saw again his brothers. Joseph was so very interested in how his father Jacob was doing, was he alive? Is he well? He was like a little boy who wanted his daddy.
Gen 43:28 Who answered, Thy seruant our father is in good health, he is yet aliue: and they bowed downe, and made obeysance.
One of the brothers, maybe Judah, told Joseph that their father was fine, in good health and very much alive. At this information, Joseph must have been overjoyed. At this point, in humility and a show of submission to a superior, they bow down.
Gen 43:29 "And he lifting vp his eyes, beheld his brother Beniamin his mothers sonne, and sayde, Is this your yonger brother, of whome ye tolde me? And he said, God be merciful vnto thee, my sone."
At last, Joseph looked up at the person who had not been there before, he must have thought, "is this my brother Benjamin? Is it really him?" We have to remember that Benjamin was his blood brother, born to Rachel, his mother. The other brothers were half brothers but Benjamin was his only true blood brother. The other brothers must have thought it strange that Joseph would say, "God be merciful to you my son."
Gen 43:30 And Ioseph made haste (for his affection was inflamed towarde his brother, and sought where to weepe) and entred into his chamber, and wept there.
Oh my, have you ever been in a situation when your emotions are at a peak and before you burst out weeping, you need to either turn away from the source or actually walk away? Then you know how Joseph must have felt. He hadn't seen Benjamin since his brothers was just a lad. Now he is a grown man, handsome like Joseph..I can just see Joseph now, entering his private chamber, bursting out in tears as the door closes.
Gen 43:31 Afterward he washed his face, & came out, and refrained himselfe, and sayd, Set on meate.
Who knows how long it took Joseph to compose himself, wash up and return to his brothers. It's a wonder that when he looked again of Benjamin, that he didn't burst out crying. I probably would have given the same circumstances. I remember coming home from work one day after my first wife had died, I walked into my lonely apartment and immediately burst out in tremendous bursts of wailing. To this day, when I visit her grave, I start to cry, I loved her so, so much.
After composing himself and returning to the room that everyone was in, Joseph commanded his servants to bring on the feast.
Gen 43:32 And they prepared for him by himselfe, and for them by themselues, and for the Egyptians, which did eate with him, by themselues, because the Egyptians might not eate bread with the Ebrewes: for that was an abomination vnto the Egyptians.
I find it interesting that each party sat a different tables. Mostly out of custom. The Egyptians looked down on the Hebrew people and it was an abomination to eat a meal with them. I suppose Joseph needed to separate himself from his family as to not break Egyptian customs. Word getting back to Pharaoh that Joseph was eating with Hebrews might not have settled very well with him.
Gen 43:34 "And they tooke meases from before him, and sent to them: but Beniamins mease was fiue times so much as any of theirs: and they drunke, and had of the best drinke with him."
If I hadn't been in the Army, I would never know what mess was, other than my bed room growing up. The Mess hall was where we ate all our meals, even when we were out in the field, I was in the "Berlin Conflict" in Germany looking down the barrel of a Russian rifle or a tank. Even in the field, we ate in the "mess tent." Most of us thought our food was a mess, and that's why it got that name.
It was the custom for the host of the dinner to allot to each guest his portion of food. For Benjamin, Joseph favored him with five time more than the rest. Oh, oh. Now Joseph is taking after his father when he showed more favor for Joseph, with his coat of many colors. He shows the same favoritism to Benjamin. It could be that he wanted his brothers to recall how he was favored, or just that he was so happy to see Benjamin that he wanted to shower him with grace.
After dining, apparently they were able to share a little wine together, just enough to calm the brothers nerves and to enjoy each others company which must have really confused Joseph's Egyptians servants.
have you been circumcised? I have. I didn't want to post pics and go that descriptive. the Egyptians didn't remove as much of the foreskin as the Hebrews do.
Deborah13
Member
Do we see prophecy fulfilled? It doesn't include sun and moon, so maybe not?
Gen 37:9 And he dreameth yet another dream, and recounteth it to his brethren, and saith, `Lo, I have dreamed a dream again, and lo, the sun and the moon, and eleven stars, are bowing themselves to me.'
Gen 43:28 and they say, `Thy servant our father is well, he is yet alive;' and they bow, and do obeisance.
Gen 37:9 And he dreameth yet another dream, and recounteth it to his brethren, and saith, `Lo, I have dreamed a dream again, and lo, the sun and the moon, and eleven stars, are bowing themselves to me.'
Gen 43:28 and they say, `Thy servant our father is well, he is yet alive;' and they bow, and do obeisance.
note revalation 12.
Chopper
Member
Day 116 Thursday 8/14/14 Genesis 44:1-13 Benjamin A Thief?
Today I will use the famous Tyndale Bible. I am so thankful for this translation that I believe God Himself had His hand in like no other than the KJV. I think it would be interesting to compare Tyndale's translation with the KJV. Remembering that the KJV relied on 80% of the O.T. and 90% of the N.T. of the Tyndale.
1 "And he commaunded the rueler of his house saynge: fyll the mens sackes with food as moch as they can carie."
Gen 44:1 "And he commanded the steward of his house, saying, Fill the men's sacks with food, as much as they can carry, and put every man's money in his sack's mouth."
I start out this study with a statement by Elbert Hubbard an American writer. "The final proof of greatness lies in being able to endure contemptuous treatment without resentment." He was speaking about the life of Joseph. Dwight Moody said something like this, "The world has yet to see what God can do in and thru a man who is totally consecrated to God." I say, "that man is Joseph!"
Joseph is about to disclose who he is to his brothers. I think he set up the following set of circumstances to see if there had been any changes in his brothers.
2 and put euery mans money in his bagge mouth and put my syluer cuppe in the sackes mouth of the yongest and his corne money also. And he dyd as Ioseph had sayde.
Gen 44:2 And put my cup, the silver cup, in the sack's mouth of the youngest, and his corn money. And he did according to the word that Joseph had spoken.
This plan of Joseph at first seems very deceptive, but I think that, as I have already mentioned, Joseph so far has not seen much of a change in his brothers attitudes. This plan to single out Benjamin was to bring them back so that Joseph could finally disclose who he was. God was in the process of humbling these brothers and teaching them a great spiritual lesson.
3 And in ye mornynge as soone as it was lighte the me were let goo with their asses.
Gen 44:3 "As soon as the morning was light, the men were sent away, they and their asses."
Little did they know that they were being tested. I supposed their minds were filled with excitement and they wanted to hurry to their father to tell him what a wonderful reception they had in the Ambassador's house.
4 And when they were out of the cytie and not yet ferre awaye Ioseph sayde vnto the ruelar of his house: vp and folowe after the men and ouertake them and saye vnto them: wherefore haue ye rewarded euell for good?
Gen 44:4 "And when they were gone out of the city, and not yet far off, Joseph said unto his steward, Up, follow after the men; and when thou dost overtake them, say unto them, Wherefore have ye rewarded evil for good?"
Joseph's plan is put into action. I'm thinking that this steward must have been thinking, perhaps my boss was only giving these Hebrews their last meal before he strikes these loathsome Hebrews down. Either that or Joseph has lost his mind. Anyway, he obeys his boss and ventures out to play this game.
5 is that not the cuppe of which my lorde drynketh ad doth he not prophesie therin? ye haue euell done that ye haue done.
Gen 44:5 "Is not this it in which my lord drinketh, and whereby indeed he divineth? ye have done evil in so doing."
This statement of the steward must have sounded way out there. What's he talking about? What possibly do we have that the Ambassador prophecy's with?
Oh oh, he says we're in trouble!
6 And he ouertoke them and sayde the same wordes vnto them.
7 And they answered him: wherfore sayth my lorde soch wordes? God forbydd that thy servauntes shulde doo so.
divineth? ye have done evil in so doing.
Gen 44:6 "And he overtook them, and he spake unto them these same words."
Gen 44:7 "And they said unto him, Wherefore saith my lord these words? God forbid that thy servants should do according to this thing."
Probably Judah, the spokesman of the brothers, said, "What are you talking about? I can just imagine the shock of anyone accusing them of stealing from someone who has treated them so magnificently. Can't be they thought.
8 Beholde the money which we founde in oure sackes mouthes we brought agayne vnto the out of the lande of Canaa: how then shulde we steale out of my lordes house ether syluer or golde?
9 with whosoeuer of thy seruauntes it be founde let him dye and let vs also be my lordes bondmen.
Gen 44:8 Behold, the money, which we found in our sacks' mouths, we brought again unto thee out of the land of Canaan: how then should we steal out of thy lord's house silver or gold?
Gen 44:9 With whomsoever of thy servants it be found, both let him die, and we also will be my lord's bondmen.
I'm going to stop with 44:9 and will pick up with V.10 and so on.
We see Judah, speaking for the others, They are so sure that no one in their party would stoop so low as to steal something of value from someone who has treated them so well. Judah says, You can kill the person who you find this silver cup with. Wow! that's how sure that Judah is that they were innocent.
Today I will use the famous Tyndale Bible. I am so thankful for this translation that I believe God Himself had His hand in like no other than the KJV. I think it would be interesting to compare Tyndale's translation with the KJV. Remembering that the KJV relied on 80% of the O.T. and 90% of the N.T. of the Tyndale.
1 "And he commaunded the rueler of his house saynge: fyll the mens sackes with food as moch as they can carie."
Gen 44:1 "And he commanded the steward of his house, saying, Fill the men's sacks with food, as much as they can carry, and put every man's money in his sack's mouth."
I start out this study with a statement by Elbert Hubbard an American writer. "The final proof of greatness lies in being able to endure contemptuous treatment without resentment." He was speaking about the life of Joseph. Dwight Moody said something like this, "The world has yet to see what God can do in and thru a man who is totally consecrated to God." I say, "that man is Joseph!"
Joseph is about to disclose who he is to his brothers. I think he set up the following set of circumstances to see if there had been any changes in his brothers.
2 and put euery mans money in his bagge mouth and put my syluer cuppe in the sackes mouth of the yongest and his corne money also. And he dyd as Ioseph had sayde.
Gen 44:2 And put my cup, the silver cup, in the sack's mouth of the youngest, and his corn money. And he did according to the word that Joseph had spoken.
This plan of Joseph at first seems very deceptive, but I think that, as I have already mentioned, Joseph so far has not seen much of a change in his brothers attitudes. This plan to single out Benjamin was to bring them back so that Joseph could finally disclose who he was. God was in the process of humbling these brothers and teaching them a great spiritual lesson.
3 And in ye mornynge as soone as it was lighte the me were let goo with their asses.
Gen 44:3 "As soon as the morning was light, the men were sent away, they and their asses."
Little did they know that they were being tested. I supposed their minds were filled with excitement and they wanted to hurry to their father to tell him what a wonderful reception they had in the Ambassador's house.
4 And when they were out of the cytie and not yet ferre awaye Ioseph sayde vnto the ruelar of his house: vp and folowe after the men and ouertake them and saye vnto them: wherefore haue ye rewarded euell for good?
Gen 44:4 "And when they were gone out of the city, and not yet far off, Joseph said unto his steward, Up, follow after the men; and when thou dost overtake them, say unto them, Wherefore have ye rewarded evil for good?"
Joseph's plan is put into action. I'm thinking that this steward must have been thinking, perhaps my boss was only giving these Hebrews their last meal before he strikes these loathsome Hebrews down. Either that or Joseph has lost his mind. Anyway, he obeys his boss and ventures out to play this game.
5 is that not the cuppe of which my lorde drynketh ad doth he not prophesie therin? ye haue euell done that ye haue done.
Gen 44:5 "Is not this it in which my lord drinketh, and whereby indeed he divineth? ye have done evil in so doing."
This statement of the steward must have sounded way out there. What's he talking about? What possibly do we have that the Ambassador prophecy's with?
Oh oh, he says we're in trouble!
6 And he ouertoke them and sayde the same wordes vnto them.
7 And they answered him: wherfore sayth my lorde soch wordes? God forbydd that thy servauntes shulde doo so.
divineth? ye have done evil in so doing.
Gen 44:6 "And he overtook them, and he spake unto them these same words."
Gen 44:7 "And they said unto him, Wherefore saith my lord these words? God forbid that thy servants should do according to this thing."
Probably Judah, the spokesman of the brothers, said, "What are you talking about? I can just imagine the shock of anyone accusing them of stealing from someone who has treated them so magnificently. Can't be they thought.
8 Beholde the money which we founde in oure sackes mouthes we brought agayne vnto the out of the lande of Canaa: how then shulde we steale out of my lordes house ether syluer or golde?
9 with whosoeuer of thy seruauntes it be founde let him dye and let vs also be my lordes bondmen.
Gen 44:8 Behold, the money, which we found in our sacks' mouths, we brought again unto thee out of the land of Canaan: how then should we steal out of thy lord's house silver or gold?
Gen 44:9 With whomsoever of thy servants it be found, both let him die, and we also will be my lord's bondmen.
I'm going to stop with 44:9 and will pick up with V.10 and so on.
We see Judah, speaking for the others, They are so sure that no one in their party would stoop so low as to steal something of value from someone who has treated them so well. Judah says, You can kill the person who you find this silver cup with. Wow! that's how sure that Judah is that they were innocent.
Chopper
Member
No wonder so many folks couldn't read back then
Teasing Chopper it really makes me READ each word...
I'm amazed at the spelling. I guess Webster wasn't around then.
It looks like they spelled like they thought it sounded. I think there is something very spiritual in reading these famous Bibles of the Reformation. These men who wrote them were marked men, and had to hide out from the Catholic church who wanted them dead. They gave their lives so that you and I could be free to read and study God's authentic Word. Praise God for His watch care over these special servants.
Chopper
Member
Tomorrow, I will, along with the KJV, post the 1611 KJV. This will be the last of my presentations of the early translations that shaped the Reformation and gave us a true expression of the original manuscripts. It has been a great pleasure and honor to look at these translations. I now will stick to the KJV that I have in my hands.
uhm no, the v and us are interchangeable in old English, Spanish and French. and that was the case since latin. we changed that sometime after the new world discovery.(English). ie usted or vsted. both are said oosted. the later isn't common today but I was taught both. it means you, as in you sir.I'm amazed at the spelling. I guess Webster wasn't around then.
Chopper
Member
Wow! Jason, thank you for that information.
Chopper
Member
Day 117 Friday 8/15/14 Genesis 44:10-13 Benjamin's In Trouble.
10 And he said, Now also let it be according vnto your wordes: hee with whom it is found, shall be my seruant: and ye shall be blamelesse.
This is a situation when it is better not to say anything. Judah was so certain that none of his brothers had been a thief that he made the statement that the steward said, "let it be unto your words." We need to remember that God and Joseph are up to something.
11 Then they speedily tooke downe euery man his sacke to the ground, and opened euery man his sacke.
The brothers are so sure that nothing like what the steward is accusing them of has happened, that immediately they unload their sacks from their donkeys.
12 And he searched, and began at the eldest, and left at the yongest: and the cup was found in Beniamins sacke.
Boy, talk about suspense, for a person who is reading this for the first time, this would be like a big mystery book. Well, the steward looks thru the sacks of the eldest, then progresses down to Benjamin's. The steward knows where the silver cup is, that is why this account is so interesting. This is sure to build up in the brothers anxiety of not knowing just what is going on here. Oh my! The cup is in Benjamin's sack.
13 Then they rent their clothes, and laded euery man his asse, and returned to the citie.
To say that the brothers were stunned would be an understatement to be sure. What?? the silver cup in in Benjamin's sack? No Way, they must have thought. I can just see all the brothers circling the sack to take a look. Yep! There it is, now how did that cup get in there. I can just see Benjamin's eyes, wide open and jaw down to the ground.
I'm hoping that Jason can give us a little info on "renting their clothes" What did they do Jason? rent their clothes to the steward?
I guess it's a Hebrew sign of great grief. I would though, like to know the history of this Jewish custom, without going off topic. As the brother's astonishment turns to anguish, they tear their clothes and probably cry out, Oh God, what have we done? Obviously they had to return to Egypt with the steward acting like a sheriff. They must really be filled with great fear of what's going to become of them. God is really at work here in exposing their sinful lifestyle. Somewhere it is written "Be sure your sin will find you out." That should be a warning to all of us, that no sin is hidden from our all knowing God. Eventually we must face our sin and repent.
10 And he said, Now also let it be according vnto your wordes: hee with whom it is found, shall be my seruant: and ye shall be blamelesse.
This is a situation when it is better not to say anything. Judah was so certain that none of his brothers had been a thief that he made the statement that the steward said, "let it be unto your words." We need to remember that God and Joseph are up to something.
11 Then they speedily tooke downe euery man his sacke to the ground, and opened euery man his sacke.
The brothers are so sure that nothing like what the steward is accusing them of has happened, that immediately they unload their sacks from their donkeys.
12 And he searched, and began at the eldest, and left at the yongest: and the cup was found in Beniamins sacke.
Boy, talk about suspense, for a person who is reading this for the first time, this would be like a big mystery book. Well, the steward looks thru the sacks of the eldest, then progresses down to Benjamin's. The steward knows where the silver cup is, that is why this account is so interesting. This is sure to build up in the brothers anxiety of not knowing just what is going on here. Oh my! The cup is in Benjamin's sack.
13 Then they rent their clothes, and laded euery man his asse, and returned to the citie.
To say that the brothers were stunned would be an understatement to be sure. What?? the silver cup in in Benjamin's sack? No Way, they must have thought. I can just see all the brothers circling the sack to take a look. Yep! There it is, now how did that cup get in there. I can just see Benjamin's eyes, wide open and jaw down to the ground.
I'm hoping that Jason can give us a little info on "renting their clothes" What did they do Jason? rent their clothes to the steward?
I guess it's a Hebrew sign of great grief. I would though, like to know the history of this Jewish custom, without going off topic. As the brother's astonishment turns to anguish, they tear their clothes and probably cry out, Oh God, what have we done? Obviously they had to return to Egypt with the steward acting like a sheriff. They must really be filled with great fear of what's going to become of them. God is really at work here in exposing their sinful lifestyle. Somewhere it is written "Be sure your sin will find you out." That should be a warning to all of us, that no sin is hidden from our all knowing God. Eventually we must face our sin and repent.