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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Bible Study WELCOME TO A DEEP LOOK AT GENESIS
- Thread starter Chopper
- Start date
Chopper
Member
Deborah13
Member
Chopper I think the 'renting' is symbolic of something 'lost', thus exposing one to a type of 'nakedness', like in the Garden, innocence lost.
If there is no 'renting' there is no care or recognition of what has been lost. In this verse, the king and his servants do not rent their clothes when God's words (truth), as written down by Jeremiah, are burnt in the fire, they don't knowledge any lose of God's truth.
Jer 36:23 and it cometh to pass, when Jehudi readeth three or four leaves, he cutteth it out with the scribe's knife, and hath cast unto the fire, that is on the stove, till the consumption of all the roll by the fire that is on the stove.
Jer 36:24 And the king and all his servants who are hearing all these words have not been afraid, nor rent their garments.
If there is no 'renting' there is no care or recognition of what has been lost. In this verse, the king and his servants do not rent their clothes when God's words (truth), as written down by Jeremiah, are burnt in the fire, they don't knowledge any lose of God's truth.
Jer 36:23 and it cometh to pass, when Jehudi readeth three or four leaves, he cutteth it out with the scribe's knife, and hath cast unto the fire, that is on the stove, till the consumption of all the roll by the fire that is on the stove.
Jer 36:24 And the king and all his servants who are hearing all these words have not been afraid, nor rent their garments.
Sinthesis
Member
Consider the cup, Joseph's own personal cup, which he has planted with his younger brother.
To those ignorant of the truth of the situation, Benjamin's possession of the cup is evidence of sin, when in reality the cup is a gift apart from sin. Nevertheless the sons of Israel will continue in distress until they learn the true identity of pharaoh's right hand man.
Mar 10:38 - But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
To those ignorant of the truth of the situation, Benjamin's possession of the cup is evidence of sin, when in reality the cup is a gift apart from sin. Nevertheless the sons of Israel will continue in distress until they learn the true identity of pharaoh's right hand man.
where on earth would I go to find that? hmm chabad might have that.Day 117 Friday 8/15/14 Genesis 44:10-13 Benjamin's In Trouble.
10 And he said, Now also let it be according vnto your wordes: hee with whom it is found, shall be my seruant: and ye shall be blamelesse.
This is a situation when it is better not to say anything. Judah was so certain that none of his brothers had been a thief that he made the statement that the steward said, "let it be unto your words." We need to remember that God and Joseph are up to something.
11 Then they speedily tooke downe euery man his sacke to the ground, and opened euery man his sacke.
The brothers are so sure that nothing like what the steward is accusing them of has happened, that immediately they unload their sacks from their donkeys.
12 And he searched, and began at the eldest, and left at the yongest: and the cup was found in Beniamins sacke.
Boy, talk about suspense, for a person who is reading this for the first time, this would be like a big mystery book. Well, the steward looks thru the sacks of the eldest, then progresses down to Benjamin's. The steward knows where the silver cup is, that is why this account is so interesting. This is sure to build up in the brothers anxiety of not knowing just what is going on here. Oh my! The cup is in Benjamin's sack.
13 Then they rent their clothes, and laded euery man his asse, and returned to the citie.
To say that the brothers were stunned would be an understatement to be sure. What?? the silver cup in in Benjamin's sack? No Way, they must have thought. I can just see all the brothers circling the sack to take a look. Yep! There it is, now how did that cup get in there. I can just see Benjamin's eyes, wide open and jaw down to the ground.
I'm hoping that Jason can give us a little info on "renting their clothes" What did they do Jason? rent their clothes to the steward?I guess it's a Hebrew sign of great grief. I would though, like to know the history of this Jewish custom, without going off topic. As the brother's astonishment turns to anguish, they tear their clothes and probably cry out, Oh God, what have we done? Obviously they had to return to Egypt with the steward acting like a sheriff. They must really be filled with great fear of what's going to become of them. God is really at work here in exposing their sinful lifestyle. Somewhere it is written "Be sure your sin will find you out." That should be a warning to all of us, that no sin is hidden from our all knowing God. Eventually we must face our sin and repent.
Chopper
Member
Day 118 Saturday 8/16/14 Genesis 44:14-16 The Chickens Come Home To Roost.
Gen 44:14 "And Judah and his brethren came to Joseph's house; for he was yet there: and they fell before him on the ground."
Since the brothers had not gone far from Joseph's house, they were able to return very fast. Oh my, I wonder what was going thru their minds at this point. They must have talked with each other on the trip back. Their questions would have been just like ours would have been in the same situation. It seems that Judah had set himself up as the leader/spokesman for the group, partly, I think, because he had told his father that he would be surety for Benjamin. I can imagine that one of them must have said, "Why is this happening to us, we haven't done anything wrong." After some conversation, Judah might have been the one who said, "Do you remember how we treated Joseph? That was twenty years ago," Judah may have said, "God remembers!" On the way back, that may have been weighing heavy on their minds.
Joseph was still there waiting for their arrival. As soon as they come to Joseph, they immediately fall flat on the ground in complete submission and reverence to Joseph. All the while during this long set of circumstances, Joseph, under the control of Almighty God, is testing Joseph's brothers to see if they had changed over the twenty years, or, causing them to finally reckon with themselves their evil past and seek restoration. There is also Joseph's dream coming true.
Gen 44:15 "And Joseph said unto them, What deed is this that ye have done? wot ye not that such a man as I can certainly divine?"
Joseph poses a question to them, My thoughts, "don't you know that I can foretell and foreknow what you have done? What do you take me for, a dummy? Did you think you could get away with stealing my silver cup?" Oh my, they knew the jig was up. The chickens have finally come home to roost!
Gen 44:16 "And Judah said, What shall we say unto my lord? what shall we speak? or how shall we clear ourselves? God hath found out the iniquity of thy servants: behold, we are my lord's servants, both we, and he also with whom the cup is found."
Judah is now passing the test that Joseph has been setting up all this time. Judah and his brothers are passing the test with all A+s. He has come to the realization that because of how they treated Joseph 20+ years ago has now come up before them. "How do we clear ourselves" is a great statement of impossibility because of their sin and now how do they get out from under God's chastisement. "God hath found out the iniquity of thy servants." Wow! Judah has just revealed the fact that sin will find him out.
This is a great lesson for us all. It seems that our besetting sins go on because there is a lack of chastisement from God. There are those Christians who continue to sin the same old sin time after time because it seems like they are getting away with it, or, God's grace is covering it. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom! That is when we are supposed to fear the Lord. In other words, we are to fear quenching the Holy Spirit and disappointing our Lord, and also fearing the fact that sin will eventually be judged, if not in this lifetime, the next.
Gen 44:14 "And Judah and his brethren came to Joseph's house; for he was yet there: and they fell before him on the ground."
Since the brothers had not gone far from Joseph's house, they were able to return very fast. Oh my, I wonder what was going thru their minds at this point. They must have talked with each other on the trip back. Their questions would have been just like ours would have been in the same situation. It seems that Judah had set himself up as the leader/spokesman for the group, partly, I think, because he had told his father that he would be surety for Benjamin. I can imagine that one of them must have said, "Why is this happening to us, we haven't done anything wrong." After some conversation, Judah might have been the one who said, "Do you remember how we treated Joseph? That was twenty years ago," Judah may have said, "God remembers!" On the way back, that may have been weighing heavy on their minds.
Joseph was still there waiting for their arrival. As soon as they come to Joseph, they immediately fall flat on the ground in complete submission and reverence to Joseph. All the while during this long set of circumstances, Joseph, under the control of Almighty God, is testing Joseph's brothers to see if they had changed over the twenty years, or, causing them to finally reckon with themselves their evil past and seek restoration. There is also Joseph's dream coming true.
Gen 44:15 "And Joseph said unto them, What deed is this that ye have done? wot ye not that such a man as I can certainly divine?"
Joseph poses a question to them, My thoughts, "don't you know that I can foretell and foreknow what you have done? What do you take me for, a dummy? Did you think you could get away with stealing my silver cup?" Oh my, they knew the jig was up. The chickens have finally come home to roost!
Gen 44:16 "And Judah said, What shall we say unto my lord? what shall we speak? or how shall we clear ourselves? God hath found out the iniquity of thy servants: behold, we are my lord's servants, both we, and he also with whom the cup is found."
Judah is now passing the test that Joseph has been setting up all this time. Judah and his brothers are passing the test with all A+s. He has come to the realization that because of how they treated Joseph 20+ years ago has now come up before them. "How do we clear ourselves" is a great statement of impossibility because of their sin and now how do they get out from under God's chastisement. "God hath found out the iniquity of thy servants." Wow! Judah has just revealed the fact that sin will find him out.
This is a great lesson for us all. It seems that our besetting sins go on because there is a lack of chastisement from God. There are those Christians who continue to sin the same old sin time after time because it seems like they are getting away with it, or, God's grace is covering it. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom! That is when we are supposed to fear the Lord. In other words, we are to fear quenching the Holy Spirit and disappointing our Lord, and also fearing the fact that sin will eventually be judged, if not in this lifetime, the next.
Chopper
Member
Day 119 Sunday 8/17/14 Genesis 44:17-34 Focus on Jacob.
Today, we will observe the last test that the brothers of Joseph must pass before Joseph reveals who is really is. The greatest theme in all of Scripture as presented by Almighty God is sacrifice IMO.
In the following seventeen verses, we will witness a wonderful spiritual change in Judah, who represents the other brothers. I have a feeling that Judah had set himself up as the leader, and he and the other brothers had many conversations about the situation that they found themselves in. Lets remember who Judah is, he is the one who said "here comes that dreamer Joseph. Let's kill him." Later he said "let's sell him." At that time, he couldn't care less about Joseph or even his father because of the favoritism that he displayed over the sons of his precious Rachel.
When God is at work in our lives, as well as Judah's, the more spiritual we become, we mirror the life of Jesus, and His great sacrifice for all mankind. In our study for today, we see Judah entering into the sacrifice mode. Joseph decided that it wouldn't be right to punish all the brothers for the crime of one. He says, you all go home and Benjamin will pay for his theft by being my servant. Wow! It's just amazing to me how Joseph figured out this very complex plan of causing his brothers to reckon with their past sins against him and causing them to repent and come to a change of life attitudes. Of course we all know that it was Almighty God working in the background, praise His matchless Name!
Judah says to Joseph, "Take me instead of Benjamin", and send him home with the other brothers. Right there is a mighty test that he has passed. That is sacrifice in it's finest. In fact, Judah is making a sacrifice for all his brothers. Now his attitude toward Israel his father has changed drastically. For most of his life he cared very little about his father because he was pushed out of the way because of Jacob's favoring Joseph and Benjamin over him and the other brothers. MY goodness, there are a multiplicity of family lessons in this for all of us. Repentance, and a transformation in the lives of Joseph's brothers has come about.
At this point, Joseph must have felt that since the great time of testing, and good results have come about, he must have heard God whisper in his mind, "tell them who you are."
Today, we will observe the last test that the brothers of Joseph must pass before Joseph reveals who is really is. The greatest theme in all of Scripture as presented by Almighty God is sacrifice IMO.
In the following seventeen verses, we will witness a wonderful spiritual change in Judah, who represents the other brothers. I have a feeling that Judah had set himself up as the leader, and he and the other brothers had many conversations about the situation that they found themselves in. Lets remember who Judah is, he is the one who said "here comes that dreamer Joseph. Let's kill him." Later he said "let's sell him." At that time, he couldn't care less about Joseph or even his father because of the favoritism that he displayed over the sons of his precious Rachel.
When God is at work in our lives, as well as Judah's, the more spiritual we become, we mirror the life of Jesus, and His great sacrifice for all mankind. In our study for today, we see Judah entering into the sacrifice mode. Joseph decided that it wouldn't be right to punish all the brothers for the crime of one. He says, you all go home and Benjamin will pay for his theft by being my servant. Wow! It's just amazing to me how Joseph figured out this very complex plan of causing his brothers to reckon with their past sins against him and causing them to repent and come to a change of life attitudes. Of course we all know that it was Almighty God working in the background, praise His matchless Name!
Judah says to Joseph, "Take me instead of Benjamin", and send him home with the other brothers. Right there is a mighty test that he has passed. That is sacrifice in it's finest. In fact, Judah is making a sacrifice for all his brothers. Now his attitude toward Israel his father has changed drastically. For most of his life he cared very little about his father because he was pushed out of the way because of Jacob's favoring Joseph and Benjamin over him and the other brothers. MY goodness, there are a multiplicity of family lessons in this for all of us. Repentance, and a transformation in the lives of Joseph's brothers has come about.
At this point, Joseph must have felt that since the great time of testing, and good results have come about, he must have heard God whisper in his mind, "tell them who you are."
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My personal thoughts....
Looking at this whole story i see a picture of the change that is to come in a few thousand years..
I see repentance, forgiveness, acceptance., I see the changing from the religion of the Jewish nation to the salvation of the Cross.
The change is pictured from the old covenant to the new covenant.
Looking at this whole story i see a picture of the change that is to come in a few thousand years..
I see repentance, forgiveness, acceptance., I see the changing from the religion of the Jewish nation to the salvation of the Cross.
The change is pictured from the old covenant to the new covenant.
Deborah13
Member
:amen
rebaJoseph has the authority to throw every one of them into the pit. Instead we see him drawing them into repentance because he loved them.
Joh 12:32 and I, if I may be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.'
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
some you have forgotten the moshiac has two natures. ben JOSEPH and ben DAVID. ben joseph came and suffered at the cross. ben david will return to conquer his enemies. but getting into the jewish views of the moshiacs and tying what the bible says about jesus is off topic.
Chopper
Member
I don't know that "forgotten" is as accurate as ignorant, old buddy. I for one am so very thankful that you are a Messianic Jew, and that you help us understand very important information such as you just posted. Thank you so much Jason! Shalom!
i think it is very on topic, as in Genesis Yhwh already starts to unfold His Plan, including Yeshua crushing satans power and returning (the second time) to rule -=>
i think and agree these names reveal the two natures and comings of Jesus. The first coming, Jesus was Messiah Ben Joseph (the son of Joseph) and He came as the suffering servant or Son of Sorrows. His second coming, Jesus comes as the one who sits at the right hand of the Father, the Son of the Right Hand, Messiah Ben David.
His Kingdom is not 'of this earth', not fleshy nor carnal nor temporary,
but He will be on earth ruling over all the nations when He returns.
Chopper
Member
Day 120 Monday 8/18/14 Genesis 45:1-5 I AM Joseph!
Gen 45:1 "Then Joseph could not refrain himself before all them that stood by him; and he cried, Cause every man to go out from me. And there stood no man with him, while Joseph made himself known unto his brethren."
"AAA-NEE- YO-SAPHE!" "I am Joseph." The brothers were stunned! This is the climax of one of the greatest stories in the entire Scripture IMO. Wow, the twists and turns. We have finally come to the end of what God intended to do in the reformation of His prized family of Jacob, Israel. When our lives spiral out of control, our omnipotent God sets before us His plan of restoration to His purpose for our lives. I am so glad that God Almighty had a plan for my life, and the events of my life were not just my plans. Sure, I messed up, just like everyone else. Our God will just let us go so far before He gently brings us back on course, His course! Some day we will hear our "I am Joseph" only it'll be "welcome home my good and faithful servant." Only His welcome, will be directed right back to Him because if anything good became of my life, it was by His efforts in me, not mine. Praise His matchless Name.
Joseph made sure that no servants were present for this long awaited re-union. Once the house was cleared, Joseph broke down with heaving cries of relief. Finally, he can embrace his brothers with no mystery attached to it. He is Joseph to them, not the Prime Minister of Egypt. His dreams are coming true. Those dreams must have played back in his mind so many times in the past and now they all make sense.
Gen 45:2 "And he wept aloud: and the Egyptians and the house of Pharaoh heard."
Joseph's cries were so loud that even those in Pharaoh's house heard of it and must have wondered what was going on.
Gen 45:3 "And Joseph said unto his brethren, I am Joseph; doth my father yet live? And his brethren could not answer him; for they were troubled at his presence."
To say that the eleven brothers were "troubled" tells me that they were Shocked! They were speechless. I can just hear them, "what did he say?" Joseph asks, "is dad still alive?" Now he hits close to home. It is very hard for these brothers to rationalize what is going on here. They were convinced that Joseph was dead. For twenty long years Joseph was dead. Now, standing before them is this person who is the Prime Minister of the greatest Nation on earth, and he says he is Joseph? "impossible!!"
Gen 45:4 "And Joseph said unto his brethren, Come near to me, I pray you. And they came near. And he said, I am Joseph your brother, whom ye sold into Egypt."
OK, now it's becoming a little clearer. Joseph's statement "whom ye sold into Egypt" jogs their memories to a very bad time in their lives. "If this is really Joseph, is he going to kill us?" they must have thought. In the unrighteous world, Joseph had every right to end their lives. All he had to do was call for Potiphar's soldiers, and they would have chopped some heads off. Instead, to their amazement, he said come close. This is hugging and kissing close.
Gen 45:5 "Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life."
These words must have been gold in their pockets. Wow! a rush of relief must have come over them. "Listen guys, forget what you did to me, this was God's plan to preserve not only your lives from starvation but fathers and all over the land. I'm OK see? Look what God did for me, this was all His plan, so relax, all is good from now on."
Gen 45:1 "Then Joseph could not refrain himself before all them that stood by him; and he cried, Cause every man to go out from me. And there stood no man with him, while Joseph made himself known unto his brethren."
"AAA-NEE- YO-SAPHE!" "I am Joseph." The brothers were stunned! This is the climax of one of the greatest stories in the entire Scripture IMO. Wow, the twists and turns. We have finally come to the end of what God intended to do in the reformation of His prized family of Jacob, Israel. When our lives spiral out of control, our omnipotent God sets before us His plan of restoration to His purpose for our lives. I am so glad that God Almighty had a plan for my life, and the events of my life were not just my plans. Sure, I messed up, just like everyone else. Our God will just let us go so far before He gently brings us back on course, His course! Some day we will hear our "I am Joseph" only it'll be "welcome home my good and faithful servant." Only His welcome, will be directed right back to Him because if anything good became of my life, it was by His efforts in me, not mine. Praise His matchless Name.
Joseph made sure that no servants were present for this long awaited re-union. Once the house was cleared, Joseph broke down with heaving cries of relief. Finally, he can embrace his brothers with no mystery attached to it. He is Joseph to them, not the Prime Minister of Egypt. His dreams are coming true. Those dreams must have played back in his mind so many times in the past and now they all make sense.
Gen 45:2 "And he wept aloud: and the Egyptians and the house of Pharaoh heard."
Joseph's cries were so loud that even those in Pharaoh's house heard of it and must have wondered what was going on.
Gen 45:3 "And Joseph said unto his brethren, I am Joseph; doth my father yet live? And his brethren could not answer him; for they were troubled at his presence."
To say that the eleven brothers were "troubled" tells me that they were Shocked! They were speechless. I can just hear them, "what did he say?" Joseph asks, "is dad still alive?" Now he hits close to home. It is very hard for these brothers to rationalize what is going on here. They were convinced that Joseph was dead. For twenty long years Joseph was dead. Now, standing before them is this person who is the Prime Minister of the greatest Nation on earth, and he says he is Joseph? "impossible!!"
Gen 45:4 "And Joseph said unto his brethren, Come near to me, I pray you. And they came near. And he said, I am Joseph your brother, whom ye sold into Egypt."
OK, now it's becoming a little clearer. Joseph's statement "whom ye sold into Egypt" jogs their memories to a very bad time in their lives. "If this is really Joseph, is he going to kill us?" they must have thought. In the unrighteous world, Joseph had every right to end their lives. All he had to do was call for Potiphar's soldiers, and they would have chopped some heads off. Instead, to their amazement, he said come close. This is hugging and kissing close.
Gen 45:5 "Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life."
These words must have been gold in their pockets. Wow! a rush of relief must have come over them. "Listen guys, forget what you did to me, this was God's plan to preserve not only your lives from starvation but fathers and all over the land. I'm OK see? Look what God did for me, this was all His plan, so relax, all is good from now on."
I am not a messianic jew in that I don't do kosher nor observe the festivals as they do. I have only done channukah, I keep planning to hit up Passover and obstacles prevent me. shabat I may try. there is a local temple here that I can attend. the reason I mention ben joseph is that jesus is that when he died on the cross accused of a crime he didn't commit and then reconciling those that are his brethren whom charged him. the jews in general today don't teach much on that person , when they do its a bit different.its all about isreal to them. but I digress.
Chopper
Member
Thanks for clearing that up. I think at one time, you said you were, but that was a long time ago. You have always added such good posts. Thanks for keeping me in line with the truth.