What Commandments are in force FOREVER?

[Rick W]

What commandments are in force FOREVER?

Ex. 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: The Sabbath, FOREVER!

Now let's look at some of the other commandments God said would last forever.

Ex. 12 [13] And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
[14] And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. The Passover, FOREVER!

Ex. 12 [17] And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt:
Lev. 23 [15] And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
[16] Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
[21] And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations. The Feast of Weeks in the OT aka Pentecost in the NT, FOREVER!

Lev. 23 [27] Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
[28] And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
[31] Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. The Day of Atonement, FOEVER!

Lev. 23 [34] Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD.
[35] On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
[41] And ye shall keep it a feast unto the LORD seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.
The Feast of Tabernacles, FOREVER!

What Commandments are in force FOREVER?

Don't stop there. There's a bunch more. I could fill this page Eccl12and13.
Are you keeping these everlasting laws? Remember, scripture says FOREVER.

Exo 12:21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
Exo 12:22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
Exo 12:23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
Exo 12:24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.


Exo 27:20 And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.
Exo 27:21 In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.

Exo 28:43 And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.

Exo 29:27 And thou shalt sanctify the breast of the wave offering, and the shoulder of the heave offering, which is waved, and which is heaved up, of the ram of the consecration, even of that which is for Aaron, and of that which is for his sons:
Exo 29:28 And it shall be Aaron's and his sons' by a statute for ever from the children of Israel:

Exo 30:21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.


Lev 6:15 And he shall take of it his handful, of the flour of the meat offering, and of the oil thereof, and all the frankincense which is upon the meat offering, and shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour, even the memorial of it, unto the LORD.
Lev 6:16 And the remainder thereof shall Aaron and his sons eat: with unleavened bread shall it be eaten in the holy place; in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation they shall eat it.
Lev 6:17 It shall not be baken with leaven. I have given it unto them for their portion of my offerings made by fire; it is most holy, as is the sin offering, and as the trespass offering.
Lev 6:18 All the males among the children of Aaron shall eat of it. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations concerning the offerings of the LORD made by fire: every one that toucheth them shall be holy.


Lev 6:21 In a pan it shall be made with oil; and when it is baken, thou shalt bring it in: and the baken pieces of the meat offering shalt thou offer for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
Lev 6:22 And the priest of his sons that is anointed in his stead shall offer it: it is a statute for ever unto the LORD; it shall be wholly burnt.

Lev 7:34 For the wave breast and the heave shoulder have I taken of the children of Israel from off the sacrifices of their peace offerings, and have given them unto Aaron the priest and unto his sons by a statute for ever from among the children of Israel.

Lev 7:36 Which the LORD commanded to be given them of the children of Israel, in the day that he anointed them, by a statute for ever throughout their generations.

Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Lev 10:15 The heave shoulder and the wave breast shall they bring with the offerings made by fire of the fat, to wave it for a wave offering before the LORD; and it shall be thine, and thy sons' with thee, by a statute for ever; as the LORD hath commanded.

Lev 16:27 And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.
Lev 16:28 And he that burneth them shall wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in water, and afterward he shall come into the camp.
Lev 16:29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:

Lev 16:31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.

Lev 17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

Lev 23:21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

Lev 23:41 And ye shall keep it a feast unto the LORD seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.

Lev 24:3 Without the vail of the testimony, in the tabernacle of the congregation, shall Aaron order it from the evening unto the morning before the LORD continually: it shall be a statute for ever in your generations.

Num 10:8 And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for ever throughout your generations.

Num 15:14 And if a stranger sojourn with you, or whosoever be among you in your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD; as ye do, so he shall do.
Num 15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

Num 18:8 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.

Num 18:11 And this is thine; the heave offering of their gift, with all the wave offerings of the children of Israel: I have given them unto thee, and to thy sons and to thy daughters with thee, by a statute for ever: every one that is clean in thy house shall eat of it.

Num 18:19 All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer unto the LORD, have I given thee, and thy sons and thy daughters with thee, by a statute for ever: it is a covenant of salt for ever before the LORD unto thee and to thy seed with thee.

Num 18:23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.

Num 19:10 And he that gathereth the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: and it shall be unto the children of Israel, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among them, for a statute for ever.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Eccl12and13,
I've answered your question but you didn't like the answer.
Oh well.

I went back to find your answer. I only ask that you give me the courtesy of reading my entire reply.

So, are you talking about this answer Rick:


Why? Because they did not have faith in Christ, the new covenant.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Because if you are, the time mentioned in the above verses is talking a period AFTER the second coming of Christ. Let's go back a bit into the previous chapter to see when this will take place:

Jer.30
[1] The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
[2] Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
[3] For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

This has not happened yet. Why? Because of this next verse:

[7] Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

The time being referred to here is the second coming of Christ. Let's read more:

[8] For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
[9] But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

Now to the best of my knowledge, King David was long dead by the time Jeremiah wrote this. And when I look over into the land of Israel today I don't see King David ruling anybody. He's still waiting for the promise. This is also the reason I know that the gathering of Israel has not happened yet.

So now let's continue into the next chapter. The one where your answer came:

Jer. 31
[1] At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.

So during the time that King David will be their King, At the same time will God be a God to ALL the families of Israel. Now how many of the (12) tribes are gathered together now? Let's read some more:

[8] Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
[9] They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
[10] Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

So now we have gone from the second coming to a time when God actually gathers the WHOLE nation of Israel. Let's continue:

[28] And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.

So now the Lord is building His people again. Now we go into the verses you gave as your answer:

[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So at this time King David is King over ALL the families of Israel. This is speaking about a time AFTER the second coming of the Lord. That is when a covenant will be made and God will truly rule over the nation of Israel, along with King David.

Again I ask you, How does this explain why God is going to consume, "They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse,...", at His return? Not at the gathering.

 

[Rick W]

"They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves"

They do not trust in the Holy Spirit given through Christ to become clean.
"sanctify themselves"
"purify themselves"

Themselves. That's the key to your entire problem. Not by The Father, not by Christ and not by the Holy Ghost but by themselves

"purify themselves" implies and demonstrates trust in who? Themselves

 

[Rick W]

"eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse"

Simply means to be considered unclean, sinful.
We too were "eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse" before accepting Christ into our lives. We were sinful, rebellious, unclean... unfit for God.

Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

[Paidion]

God is going to CONSUME those that eat SWINES flesh, the ABOMINATION, and the MOUSE!!! There is nothing said about the person's nationality. Only that they did what God said not to do.

I know the following parable of Christ directly deals with eating with unwashed hands. However, its application could include pork annd mice going into a person's mouth:

And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.â€Â
Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?â€Â

He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.â€Â

But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.â€Â

And he said, “Are you also still without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.†Matthew 15:10-20

I think He could have well added, "To eat pork and mice does not defile anyone."

You may say that this cannot apply to eating pork and mice since this was expressly forbidden. But consider the words of Paul, concerning the forbidding of certain foods:

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For EVERYTHING created by God is good, and NOTHING is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer. I Timothy 4:1-5

Does the EVERYTHING not include pork and mice? Does the NOTHING not include pork and mice?But then, who wants to eat mice anyway? However, I do enjoy a few slices of bacon once in a while. God may well need to correct some of the deficiencies in my character, but I disbelieve that He'll show the slightest displeasure with my having eaten pork. I tried rabbit once when it was served to me as a guest at a friend's house. Should I have refused? In doing so, I would have rejected Paul's injunction in I Corinthians 10:25-27

Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.†If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience.

Is pork sold in the meat market? Paul told the Corinthians to eat WHATEVER is sold in the meat market? Are you willing to go along with Paul concerning this? Paul was a Jew, and apparently he thought it was right to eat any meat in the market. Or do you prefer to follow the Mosaic food rules given to the ancient Israelites?

If an unbeliever invites you to dinner, and you go, what if he serves pork? Will you refuse it? Paul said to eat what is set before you with out raising any question on the ground of your conscience. Are you willing to do that? Or will you say the following to your host?

"No thanks. God told us not to eat pork. By the way, I'm sure glad you didn't serve mice tonight!"

 

[Eccl12and13]

"eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse"

Simply means to be considered unclean, sinful.
We too were "eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse" before accepting Christ into our lives. We were sinful, rebellious, unclean... unfit for God.

Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

First I would like to know about your answer from the book of Jeremiah? No comment on that?

And second, show me, IN THE BIBLE, that, "eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse" simply means to be considered unclean, sinful.

 

[Rick W]

Jeremiah isn't referring to the 2nd coming but to the FIRST coming of the Messiah.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Jer 30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Hos 3:5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.


Is David going to be deity? No. As in Jeremiah "David their king" is the son of David, from the line of David, a righteous Branch, the Messiah.
Do you honestly believe David will be the "King over them" and not Christ? Will David be the "one shepherd"?

Again, more prophesy of the coming Messiah. (The FIRST coming)

Jer 30:21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD.

Also:
Eccl12and13, are you familiar with the Aramaic Targums? Especially Targum Jonathan?

 

[Eccl12and13]

Jeremiah isn't referring to the 2nd coming but to the FIRST coming of the Messiah.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Jer 30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Hos 3:5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.


Is David going to be deity? No. As in Jeremiah "David their king" is the son of David, from the line of David, a righteous Branch, the Messiah.
Do you honestly believe David will be the "King over them" and not Christ? Will David be the "one shepherd"?

Again, more prophesy of the coming Messiah. (The FIRST coming)

Jer 30:21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD.

Also:
Eccl12and13, are you familiar with the Aramaic Targums? Especially Targum Jonathan?

First:
So I see you have abandoned using Jeremiah 31:32-34 as your answer to my question, obviously because you see that it is indeed talking about the second coming of Christ. So now you have decided to go with Jeremiah 23. Well let's see what is said there:

Jer.23
[4] And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.
[5] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
[6] In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

So Rick, has Gods judgment and justice been executed in the earth yet? Is Israel dwelling SAFELY in the land? Is there no more fear in the land? Do they have ALL that they need and lacking nothing? Of course the answer to all of these is NO! This too is a time in the future! Not to mention the scriptures states, ISRAEL, not just the JEWS! Are ALL 12 tribes that make up the nation of ISRAEL dwelling in the land?

Next:
Please direct me to the book, chapt and verse in the bible where it says, ""David their king" actually means "the son of David", or "from the line of David" or, "a righteous Branch", or "the Messiah." Can you prove to me that the phrase, "David their king", means those things? Above, in verse 5 it says, '...I will raise UNTO David a righteous BRANCH', which is no where near saying that David IS that righteous BRANCH.

Because if you cannot direct me the the verse that says it, you have given me YOUR interpretation. The scriptures says this:

Deut.19
[15] One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

2Cor.13
[1] This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

I have given you (2) places that states you need at least (2) witnesses to establish a matter. Can you even provide (1) verse that states, ""David their king" actually means "the son of David", or "from the line of David" or, "a righteous Branch", or "the Messiah."

And why would I not think David will rule over them? Look at who Jesus said would sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes:

Matt.19
[28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Will not Christ still be the sheperd with help from His diciples?

Next:
You quoted Ezek.37:24 and 25 to prove your point that this is referring to Christ 1st coming. Let me ask you Rick, is the tabernacle of God standing over in the land now? Because if you read just the next verses down, not only does it say that it will, but that it will be in the midst FOR EVERMORE! Let's read it together:

Ezek. 37
[26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
[27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[28] And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

To the best of my knowledge, the temple was destroyed around 70 A.D. and has NOT been rebuilt.

Next:
"and David their king" , "And David my servant ", "and my servant David", Still trying to see how you made the connection to, "the son of David", or "from the line of David" or, "a righteous Branch", or "the Messiah."

This should be an interesting explanation!

Finally:
No, I am not familiar with the Aramaic Targums. But I do know that the bible that Jesus quoted from was completed before He was born, and He never once said anything was wrong with it. So if it was good enough for Him to quote from....I think I'll be fine with the translation we have in the KJV.

 

[Rick W]

"David" is metaphorically used to refer to Christ.
If you want to believe David will be your heavenly Prince, King and Shepard instead of Christ ignoring all other scripture that states otherwise then I suppose that's your prerogative.

 

[Eccl12and13]

"David" is metaphorically used to refer to Christ.
If you want to believe David will be your heavenly Prince, King and Shepard instead of Christ ignoring all other scripture that states otherwise then I suppose that's your prerogative.

Rick, first you gave me Jeremiah 31:32-34 to prove your point and I showed you WITH scripture that the verese were talking about Christ second coming. I then presented questions which you failed to answer.

You then abandoned those and came back with Jeremiah 23:4-5 to prove the same point and I again, WITH SCRIPTURE, proved that this too was referring a time in the future. I then asked the following questions with no reply:

Has Gods judgment and justice been executed in the earth yet? Is Israel dwelling SAFELY in the land? Is there no more fear in the land? Do they have ALL that they need and lacking nothing? Are ALL 12 tribes that make up the nation of ISRAEL dwelling in the land?

I then gave you an example where Jesus said there would be rulers along with Himself in His kingdom, which was the following verse:

Matt.19
[28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

You then quoted Ezek. to try to prove that the time spoken of was of Christ 1st visit with the following verses:

Ezek. 37
[26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
[27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[28] And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

And once more I presented a question which was not answered:

Is the sanctuary that God said would be in the midst FOR EVERMORE there now? Because it would have to be in order for these verses to apply TODAY!

Finally:
Here are some examples Christ gave so that we would know that there will be MANY others rulers helping Him to rule earth:

Luke 19
[11] And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
[12] He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

The nobleman that went to receive a kingdom and returned is none other that Jesus Christ.

[13] And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

These servants are those now, obeying the true word of God, waiting for His return

[15] And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
[16] Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
[17] And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

And now we see the Lord rewarding all those that obeyed with rulership over parts of His kingdom.

[18] And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
[19] And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

Some He gave rulership over 5 cities, and some 10. let's read one other place:

Matt. 25
[14] For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

We see right from the start what it is Jesus is talking about; The kingdom of Heaven.

[15] And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Now let's see what happens when the Lord returns:

[19] After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
[20] And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
[21] His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

So this man was made RULER over many things. Let's read on:

[22] He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
[23] His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Again, this man also was made a ruler.

Rick, you tell me that I'm, "ignoring all other scripture"? All I have done was present you with scripture and answers.

And now you say "that's your prerogative"! No Rick, it's not MY preogative, IT'S SCRIPTURE!

Still waiting on the answer to those few questions by the way.

 

[Rick W]

I've answered your few questions but you don't accept it. Nothing I can do there.
I've already told you how "David" was used by the prophets but you don't want to consider it much less believe it.
If you prefer to believe David will be your King and Shepard then again, I can't make you believe otherwise.

 

[RND]

I've already answered that question.

Health laws? Washing of hands?

Issues of spots on the skin, running issues, etc.

Hey, we know what a microbe is and what it can do so we do this anyway.

Yeah, we do thanks to modern medicine and the microscope. Yet God knew these things from the beginning.

Pork may not be the healthiest thing in the world but again my eating pork does not harm my neighbor.

What about you?

Getting exercise, watching cholesterol, getting a checkup periodically, ... all this is pretty much front and center these days. You see it everywhere. Even the pagan does it. Yet, I don't know of any way to die safely. No matter what health I'm in I'm destined to die. Is it good that I neglect my health? No. But being healthy can make my time here on earth a lot more comfortable.

Wasn't that the reason God instructed us as to what to do regarding health issues and what to eat?

If you want to trust in yourself to remain clean that's up to you. If Christ died for our sins that means we are clean. We didn't do it and we can't do it. That was the whole purpose of His work, making us clean. Free from the penalty of sin, death. Clean. Unblemished. To become His bride without spot. Clothed in white. That's why Christ stayed on the cross.

Christ died on the cross so I can eat pork and poison the body He gave me? Can't this same "logic" be transferred to the woman that decides to have an abortion?

The Holy Spirit is given, we are clean.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

I agree. Deep down inside I think the Holy Spirit tells people, "You shouldn't eat that" or "You shouldn't drink that" or "You shouldn't take that."

 

[Rick W]

So you're saying pork makes one unfit for God? Unclean?

 

[RND]

So you're saying pork makes one unfit for God? Unclean?

Did I say that or did I essentially say that God knows what is good for His created beings for a long lasting life? Are we willing to take Him at His word? Why would He change His mind about creatures He told both Noah and Moses were unclean?

Just so you know Rick I love pork! I love bacon, sausage of all types, pork chops, and every type of shellfish you can imagine. Grew up on the stuff frankly. But once I realized that my body is no different than an Israelites, or no different than Noah's, I decided to that God's word was true and that scavengers of all types are not fit for consumption. I've been convicted that if it is something God considers "unclean" then it isn't food.

I also realize Rick that you may not be so convicted and I am glad to point out that I don't necessarily believe this to be a salvation issue. But I will confidently tell you this. There won't be any "flesh" to eat in the New Jerusalem. Things will be restored in the New Heaven just as it was before sin entered the world.

 

[Rick W]

I've been convicted that if it is something God considers "unclean" then it isn't food.

I believe God considers no food as unclean since He circumcised our hearts.
And I'm not to judge anybody who thinks any food is unclean. In other words I'll make no issue over Kosher foods either. That's entirely one's preference as not eating pork is yours.

Matthew 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Romans 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Romans 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[RND]

I always prefer referring to the view of scripture from our Messianic friends when there is an obvious impasse due to the misreading of scripture.

Did Yahshua pronounce all foods clean?

MATTHEW 15:1-18; MARK 7:1-19 we read about some P’rushim and Torah teachers asking Yeshua, "why is that you talmidim do not wash before they eat?" Yeshua responds that it is not that which goes into your stomach that makes you unclean, but rather that which comes out.

In pre-Pharisaic times the washing of hands was necessary for handling holy objects (Shabbat 14b). This was later extended to the handling food. But once again there was a debate between the Schools of Shammai and Hillel. Shammai insisted on washing the hands before filling the cup. Yeshua referred to this when he said, "they clean, or declare pure, the outside of the cup." Hand washing was not, then, a universal command although some chose to live under such restrictions. Apparently, at this time a majority of purity laws applied only to priests, or to laymen who had occasion to enter the Temple.

Yeshua’s response to this situation compared favorably with other rabbis of his time. The famous First Century rabbi, Yohanan ben Zakkai, stated: "In life it is not the dead who make you unclean; nor is it the water, but rather the ordinances of the king of kings that purifies." Much later, Maimonides made the same comment, "For to confine oneself to cleaning the outward appearance through washing and cleaning the garment, while having at the same time a lust for various pleasures and unbridled license ... merits the utmost blame." So, Yeshua’s analysis and criticism were quite Jewish and most appropriate. The evil things that come out of our heart make us unclean.

Many have interpreted the passage in Mark 7:17-19 to mean that Yeshua set aside the food laws - clean and unclean foods. But by doing so he would have contradicted himself. His detractors had just accused him of not observing their traditions, and he had responded that they did far worse; they did not observe the commandments of the Torah (v. 9-13). For Yeshua to set aside a commandments of the Torah would have undermined the point he was trying to make. What Yeshua was saying bottom line was this, "the washing or not washing of hands before you eat does not make you ceremonially clean or unclean, but it is what comes out of your heart that makes one unclean. Therefore the foods you eat, pass through you, and have no affect on the cleanliness of the heart. Therefore all food G~d has given you to eat is ritually clean, whether you have washed or not washed."

We cannot assume that Yeshua opposed the Jewish dietary food laws established by G~d. But by the third century, Origen understood it as signifying the rejection of Jewish dietary laws by Jesus. The overwhelming majority of modern translators accept Origen’s interpretation when they take Mark 7:19 to mean "Thus he declared all foods clean.".

If this was so, why did Peter react so strongly against the possibility of eating non-kosher food when he saw the vision in Acts 10? He expressed great indignation and shock. Why did he not say in Acts 11, "Now, I remember the words of Yeshua, all foods are clean?" He said nothing of the sort, because Yeshua had not in fact set aside the dietary laws of the Torah."

Matthew 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Romans 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Romans 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[Rick W]

OK, so it's their preference also.
I'm not about to go data-mining on the net for then it simply becomes a search of "Who else believes as I do?"

A while back I even found one who believed God hates trees citing the stump of Jesse and the groves that were cut down.

 

[Rick W]

It really takes a bit of wrenching to get around the word "whatsoever" doesn't it?

"whatsoever entereth in at the mouth"

 

[RND]

It really takes a bit of wrenching to get around the word "whatsoever" doesn't it?

"whatsoever entereth in at the mouth"

So was Jesus saying the ingesting of drugs was OK? If not why not? Of course it helps to examine the whole chapter in context.

 

[LostSoul]

The matter of which or what commandments are in force FOREVER is an interesting one. To me...Jesus simply defined it all by saying that we are to love God with all our hearts, minds, bodies, and souls. One cannot do that without expressing love for ones neighbors and enemies alike. For if we strive to do so, we are less likely to do wrong against them...let alone the Lord.
This does not in any way mean we will live completely sin free lives, though I do feel it betters our chances of having a closer relationship to Him.

As far as some of the more observant commands....like what to eat and not to, amongst a couple other things...those are things I am uncertain of. In truth, I find myself a bit lost and conflicted on those seeing as understanding or interpretation can be so various.

Just my thoughts. My appologies for any offense. None was meant.

May God Bless You

Danielle