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What did God originally intend Christianity to be?

The body of Christ was never prophesied about in the old testemant.
1 Cor 2:8 - Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

It is God's will for all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth(1 Tim 2:4) and to make all men see the fellowship of the mystery(Eph 3:9)
1 Cor 2:7 - But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Most people believe we will rule and reign here on earth. But our conversation is in heaven(Phillipians 3:20) and we are seated in heavenly places in Christ(Eph 2:6)

I believe we will be reuling and reigning in the heavenly places with Christ, working with our Father in reconciling the heavenly places to himself and we will occupy different positions in the heavenly places i.e.principalities and powers. As Israel will be ruling and reigning with Christ, working with the Father in reconciling the earth unto himself.
Like I have said believe that and the cross can't work.all after the cross are in Jesus
the hebrew of whose lineage I am.is what you just said
reconciling the world to god.once Jesus returns salvation is not offered
only judgement meted.
 
Like I have said believe that and the cross can't work.all after the cross are in Jesus
the hebrew of whose lineage I am.is what you just said
reconciling the world to god.once Jesus returns salvation is not offered
only judgement meted.
In todays dispensation of Grace, there is no difference between Jew and Gentile. All are saved alike. Whether you are of Hebrew decent or not, it makes no difference. As a part of the Body of Christ, your seat is in heavenly places.

Before Stephen was stoned(Acts 7), The kingdom of Heaven was still being offered to the Nation of Israel, Peter was given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven and that is what he preached. After the stoning of Stephen, Instead of God's wrath which the world, even today deserves, came longsuffering and Paul was raised to be an apostle of the Gentiles preaching and teaching Grace offering salvation to all who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who died for us. Peter also preached Jesus Christ death, burial and resurrection but as a murder indictment. It is through Israel's fall that salvation has come to the gentiles(Roms 11). But God is not done with Israel for they have been partially blinded(also in Roms 11). When the Gentiles have reached their fullness, God will once again resume the fifth course of punishment with Israel(lev. 26 starting at 41)(Time of Jacobs Trouble) and Christ return setting up his Kingdom sitting on the throne of David(This is when Israel receives their New Covenant Jerm 31:31) with the 12 apostles seated next to him. and Israel will fulfill what Gods purpose was for them and receiving their promises.
 
Will the gentiles in the millenia be under Moses or the cross?the apostles are where during this?Isreal or in heaven.Paul says something on that.the function of Isreal was to do what? Teach the nations.the church is doing that.that is why I don't buy futurism.since this us about heretz Yisrael I will focus on that.it's a church that you are saying.the non church called Isreal is what you say.exactly what will be taught and followed during the millenium? The 613 laws of moses?or the simplicity Of jesus.?
 
Will the gentiles in the millenia be under Moses or the cross?the apostles are where during this?Isreal or in heaven.Paul says something on that.the function of Isreal was to do what? Teach the nations.the church is doing that.that is why I don't buy futurism.since this us about heretz Yisrael I will focus on that.it's a church that you are saying.the non church called Isreal is what you say.exactly what will be taught and followed during the millenium? The 613 laws of moses?or the simplicity Of jesus.?
The gentile nations will be under Israel with Christ as King. Don't mistake the gentiles in the millennia with the saved gentiles today.

I am not sure what will be taught at this moment. I would assume the everlasting gospel Rev 14. But the Gentile nations will go through Israel.

The Church today is to preach the gospel of Christ and teach Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery that was made known to Paul(Rom 16:25)

I never said that Israel was not a church. It is apparent that they were a church Acts 2:47
 
Ok so it's a church?show me a statement by Jesus that says when I come back I'm setting up another church called Isreal. The new way is better then the cross? I don't see that.if Isreal is reconciling the world to YHWH?what is the way back?
 
Ok so it's a church?show me a statement by Jesus that says when I come back I'm setting up another church called Isreal. The new way is better then the cross? I don't see that.if Isreal is reconciling the world to YHWH?what is the way back?
God will resume his work with Israel after the fullness of the gentiles be come in. When he resumes it will be the same church that was in Acts 2. We are in a time that was never prophesied about. A time that was kept secret since before the world began.
 
God will resume his work with Israel after the fullness of the gentiles be come in. When he resumes it will be the same church that was in Acts 2. We are in a time that was never prophesied about. A time that was kept secret since before the world began.
uhm which is greater the law or the cross? paul says the cross. the millennial reign will not have salvation as we call it then if what you say is true. instead a man cant see jesus unless he is a priest and circumcised.

uhm peter saids joel 2 was fulfilled at pentacost.
 
If a Jew were to accept Jesus today, would it still be appropriate to refer to themselves as Jews, or should they simply refer to themselves as Christian? The disciples were first called "Christians" in Antioch (Acts 11:26). These disciples included Jews and Gentiles.

To me the title we give ourselves shouldn't really matter since God is no respecter of persons, but I wonder if something deeper is being communicated if/when a converted Jew insists on retaining the title of "Jew" rather than forsaking it for "Christian".
 
Simple: God is calling a select few (Luke 12:32) to become Kings and Priests (Revelation 1:6, Revelation 5:10) in the Kingdom and we will help rule and teach the world unto salvation (1 Corinthians 6:2-3). We are in training right now (Ephesians 4:11-12). God's redemptive plan is outlined in Leviticus 23, and right now is the Pentecost age of the smaller harvest. Keep these simple points in mind and your goal is clear. It's not "all about me and my salvation" or "dying and going to heaven". Now, how many do y'all know that fit this bill or worse yet, complicate it more than this?
 
If a Jew were to accept Jesus today, would it still be appropriate to refer to themselves as Jews, or should they simply refer to themselves as Christian? The disciples were first called "Christians" in Antioch (Acts 11:26). These disciples included Jews and Gentiles.

To me the title we give ourselves shouldn't really matter since God is no respecter of persons, but I wonder if something deeper is being communicated if/when a converted Jew insists on retaining the title of "Jew" rather than forsaking it for "Christian".

Messianic Jew or Christian. Messianic Jew might be more effective in the work to help convert other Jews to Christianity.
 
Messianic Jew or Christian. Messianic Jew might be more effective in the work to help convert other Jews to Christianity.
Messianic jew either way they are not preaching moses but Jesus and his simplicicity.a gentle has no reason to be under the Torah.these jews select which mitzvot to follow.
 
Messianic Jew or Christian. Messianic Jew might be more effective in the work to help convert other Jews to Christianity.

I wonder about the logic here. Paul seemed to go through something similar. He said, "Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ." (Phil 3:8). In the previous verses he listed all the amazing qualifications for being a top-rate Jew; no one could question his loyalty to Judaic laws and traditions. And yet, he doesn't argue for holding on to some of that (like the name) for the sake of making other Jews feel comfortable about converting. He says he counts it all as dung, in favor of something much better; his Christianity.

Otherwise, should we argue that converted atheists refer to themselves as Messianic atheists in the "work to convert" atheists to Christianity? They may give testimony about how they used to be atheists, but that's different from insisting they should be referred to as messianic atheists. The same could be said for any convert; messianic Buddhist, messianic Hindu, Messianic Pagan etc...

If you really are a "new creature" in Christ, why hold on to the old name?
 
john darling,

God is not finished with the Jews.
But a cursory reading of scripture reveals God intended Christianity to be of the Jews first then of the Gentiles but the Jews (by and large) rejected Christ because their leadership was infiltrated and corrupted.
This is a thread to discuss the implications of this. And what God may eventually intend Christianity to be...
Do you dare participate?

It's not a matter of daring to participate. This issue "What did God originally intend Christianity to be?" has had personal ramifications.

17 ¶ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 ¶ Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. (John 17:17-26 KJV)

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (Gal 2:15-21 KJV)

1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 ¶ Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 ¶ Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:1-29 KJV)

1 ¶ I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 ¶ With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17 ¶ This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (Eph 4:1-24 KJV)
 
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john darling,

Cont:

According to Jesus Christ the Messiah to the Jews and Paul his Apostle to the non-Jewish nations, Christianity as a denominational religion, the state in which it has existed since its inception in the 4th century, is obviously not what God intended. Christianity as a natural religion is contrary to the supernatural expression through which the world would believe that the Son was indeed sent to them by God. Scripture clearly speaks for itself on this issue. To those who take Scripture at face value unembellished by interpretation and uninfluenced by Christian Traditions and Creeds.

Regarding Gal 2:16 & 20:

the KJV is, in this instance, a better translation than the modern versions. According to the rule that the Genitive, when a person is a part of the phrase, refers to possession. Ergo, These verses and others like them clearly reveal that Justification is by the faith (and the necessary works that express that faith) of Jesus Christ is what Justifies the one who is in Christ. Not the persons personal faith in God or in Christ or his works.

The common Christian understanding that the faith of the individual Justifies is ludicrous. That many Christians believe human faith is given by God is obviously true. As is the obvious truth that the human body is given by God. God created the whole of man (Gen 1-2). And creates each individual individually (can't remember the Scripture that substantiates this thought). It's the responsibility of the individual as to how that body is to be used. So also individual faith. God can't be blamed for the use or misuse of faith by the individual.

Christians, according to their natural tendency, try to Justify themselves by their own faith. Individual faith does NOT Justify. It allows God to put one into the right position to be Justified. In Christ (terminology found extensively in the NT). Transferred into the Kingdom of the Son (Col 1:12-17). A part of the new creation in Christ (2 Cor 5:17-19). In which each one in Christ is Justified by the faith of Christ who is their Justification (1 Cor 1:26-31).

The five hundred year old Christian controversy regarding individual faith alone vs. individual faith + works is superfluous in relation to Justification. Neither is true.

Regarding a separate Jewish nation after the 1st century:

It's a common misconception in Christianity that the Jews continue to be a separate entity. That God continues or will continue to deal with them separately in the same manner as BC. A corollary to that misconception is that the modern state of Israel is a continuation of the Israel described in the OT. A misconception that has generated fear that saying or doing anything against that state will rain down the wrath of God upon them.

Both the OT and the NT is in the so-called Christian Bible. That would be a clue regarding the separate state of the Jews.

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature [lit. creation].
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. (Gal 6:14-16)

That Paul refers to the new creation as the Israel of God would be another clue.

11 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. (Eph 2:11-22 KJV)

Those who are in Christ are part of a new man in Christ. In Christ....Jew & Gentile are intended to be built together as a residence for God on Earth. Through the Spirit. (Eph 2) It's not a natural unity around a Tradition or Creed, or some person other than Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ alone is the only center of unity. Any other kind of unity denies the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? (Rom 11:13-24 KJV)

The Jews are the beginning, the original tree. The Gentile believers are grafted in to the same root as they. They're all one thing AD. It's become politically correct among Christians to see separation, where God sees unity in Christ. The Protestant influenced denominations and individuals that emphasize their Jewish heritage need to realize that they are citizens of an entirely new nation where there is not Jew nor Gentile. There is no dual citizenship in this nation. (Phil 3:20, the Greek word politeuma translated as conversation in the KJV refers to comportment as a citizen) There was a time of the Jews. There is now a time of the Gentiles to be added to the root. At the end of the time of the Gentiles, Christ will return.

It's like as:

In the Body of Christ, male and female are equal members (Gal 3:28), notwithstanding the different positions within the Body they may be called to as better suited to their differences in mind and body. An emphasis on differences is not according to the intention of God in which all are one in his Son. The emphasis on differences is a negative emphasis. Paul speaks with regard to male/female differences in a positive way in Eph 5:21-33. The male is best suited to protect and often lacks the necessary love (as Paul defines love in 1 Cor 13:4-8) to do so properly. The natural tendency of the female, as it is with humanity in general, is to rebel. Thus the woman needs to be reminded to submit to the male as it was in the beginning after the fall (Gen 3:16) so that he can protect her properly. Every male/female relationship is a two-way street. Be not deceived. When one fails, the one failing drags the other down with him/her. Again as it was in the beginning.

Conclusion:

Of course God isn't finished with the Jews. If he was, there would not, indeed could not, be any Jewish converts into the new creation with all who are in Christ. They would suffer the fate of Moses who wasn't allowed to enter the promised land (Deuteronomy). Peter and Paul would have both been Apostles to the Gentiles. And the RCC might have a little more than no credence to center on Peter. That is, if Peter and Paul were even allowed into the new creation, seeing as they both were Jews.

Christ has been sent, died for all, and was resurrected. Redemption is in Christ alone. Christ is the Justification of all who are in Christ. There is no other or future hope for any Jew outside of Christ.
 
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Hi Jesse,

I think you've confused me for "JohnD", who is the one who said "god isn't finished with the Jews".

I'm of a different mind. I'm asking why he would continue to want to work with them when they reject his son, and then, even if they did accept his son, they wouldn't be Jews anymore; they'd be disciples of Jesus and the disciples of Jesus were later referred to as Christians, or, "those who follow Christ".

In other words, if they really are interested in following Jesus, what's the point in holding on to this thing about them being Jews, as tough they are still somehow different or special from ordinary Christians?
 
john darling,

Sorry for the confusion. My posts were meant for anyone, but supposed to be addressed to JohnD., seeing as he brought the matter up.

I agree with you almost totally. But we do need to work with the Jews, if for no other reason than to be instrumental in their conversion.

I agree that Jews who are converted are no longer Jews. They are in Christ.

Which brings up one other matter we probably disagree about. The use of the term Christian as a self-denotation. It was used initially by unbelievers to distinguish the believers from unbelievers. Which is why the term christian is only found in the NT three times and no one in the NT ever refers to himself as a christian. After being rejected by Christians from being numbered among them, I took to referring to myself as one who is in Christ.
 
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hi Jesse!

Don't worry about the confusion. "JohnD" and "john darling" are fairly similar. :)

But we do need to work with the Jews, if for no other reason than to be instrumental in their conversion.

Thanks for clarifying that we agree in some areas. It's always a refreshing reminder that even if we don't agree on everything, at least we agree on some things. Would you mind clarifying what you mean about the need to work with the Jews in order to convert them (specifcially in the context in which you meant it in the quote above)?

Which brings up one other matter we
probably disagree about. The use of the term Christian as a self-denotation.

I'm not particularly bothered about whatever titles we give to ourselves. However I will give some defense to the use of "christian". My understanding is that the disciples were first called Christians precisely because they were followers of Christ. It's a descriptive term which is useful for conveying a general sense of "who you are" in one word. It's not always used accurately or within the context of how it's meant to be, but then again that will still be true for any description we choose to use.
 
john darling,

It's always a refreshing reminder that even if we don't agree on everything, at least we agree on some things.

Yes. The only reason that Christianity is so denominational is because too many have been brainwashed into thinking that agreement should be in their own thinking. Or in a certain Tradition or Creed. Or even according to the authority of a certain Christian Lord.

Believers are intended to be in the process of growth and are going to disagree about some things as a matter of course. So far as I know, Jesus was the only perfect man to walk the face of the earth since the creation of Adam. And Adam wasn't perfect for long. We humans are way too limited thanks to our fallen state to think that we can determine what everyone else should believe. Look at what the Evolutionists have come up with that they think is objective truth, that they think is fact and not theory. While refusing to acknowledge even the possibility that what has been observed might just as easily show that there is indeed a living designer of it all.

Would you mind clarifying what you mean about the need to work with the Jews in order to convert them (specifcially in the context in which you meant it in the quote above)?

Think in terms of Jesus and Paul.

Jesus socialized with people that some would be afraid to associate with. Thinking it might result in a bad name. What he had to say was for everyone without exception. The only hindrance was that some refused to hear.

Paul became like whomever he was dealing with. If a Jew, then he became a Jew. Which he actually was by earthly birth. But many don't know he was also a Roman by earthly citizenship. He said he did that so that he might save some. Of course he meant that some might be saved through him. If we could save anyone, we would first save ourselves. And if we could save ourselves, there would be no need of a redeemer who is outside of ourselves. And Jesus would have come in vain.

It's not deceitful to try to identify with people on their own ground. It's usually the only thing they understand. It's like writing a book. One must try to discern where the readership is at, and then write accordingly. It helps understanding. Of course, some people won't understand no matter what you say or do. I doubt that a fundamentalist Atheist like Richard Dawkins will ever understand what the Bible says. He's too closed minded. Funny thing to say about one who presumably is a scientist. Scientists pride themselves on their open minds. But closed minded is what Dawkins is. Popular writer notwithstanding.

My understanding is that the disciples were first called Christians precisely because they were followers of Christ. It's a descriptive term which is useful for conveying a general sense of "who you are" in one word.

It's possible I'm biased against using the term due to personal experience with Christianity. Which hasn't been a good one. But I don't think so.

It's because of how I view Christianity and the association of the term with that religion. Plus the fact it wasn't used by 1st century believers in that way.

If every Christian used the term in the sense you're using it, it wouldn't be a problem to me. But it usually isn't. It's used too often in the way of "I'm a Christian and you're not because your doctrine isn't the same as mine". It's thus used as a term of division, rather than a term of unity around a particular person. Which is why I prefer to just refer to myself as one who is in Christ. It may not be one word, but it does give a clearer picture of "who I am". And who I wish other believers to be.

The term Christian only means one who follows Christ. Like one follows Islam or Socrates. One who is in Christ is far more than that. As the phrase "in Christ" implies. Paul used that phrase a lot.

It's [the term Christian] not always used accurately or within the context of how it's meant to be, but then again that will still be true for any description we choose to use.

Quite so.
 
It's not deceitful to try to identify with people on their own ground. It's usually the only thing they understand.

Hi Jesse. No, I don't think it's deceitful and I agree with your interpretation about becoming all things to all people in order to reach them. I'm trying to understand how that fits with your earlier comments about God not being finished with the Jews. Did you mean "not finished" in the sense that he's hoping they will come to accept Jesus, or not finished in the sense of them still having some special role to play specifically as Jews?
 
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