What do you think a man and a woman must know about each other

[Deborah13]

1) In a committed relationship with our Lord;
2) Financial health (bad debts, good credit, knows how to budget & plan);
3) Children - want them or no;
4) Pets - want them or no;
5) Rent or buy a house;
6) Carnivore or Herbivore (vegetarian);
7) Comfortable staying at home, relaxing ... or does the other want to party a lot;
8) Materialistic or no;

........just some thoughts that came to mind

You have so much common sense, valuable knowledge, and honesty. The very things that are missing in the leadership in this country and marriages.

 

[Obadiah]

Yes, it is awkward for you(plural 'you'/readers/public/churches/et al) because so much that is not Scriptural has been taught for so long to so many. (remember the wolves and anti-christs are already written in Scripture as ready to devour /tear apart the flock as soon as Paul departs, and so they did and continued through right up to today with rare delightful true exceptions.)...

Ok, so I see your answer to anyone who doesn't see things the same way you do isn't to explain your own viewpoint or even to understand your interpretation may not be the perfect one, but instead is to simply accuse those who disagree with your non-mainstream theology as not understanding because we are all wrong in our understanding of scripture. I understand where you are coming from now. Thanks for making that clear. Probably time to drift back closer to the topic.

 

[reba]

And more than one wife... Is that God's way?

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

This is not what you said before. In post#28 you said:
(emphasis mine.) This is very confusing as you have now changed your stance to the concept of God arranging things instead of the people's parents. You are fond of saying "no explanation needed" when people ask you questions about your statements, but indeed much explanation IS needed because a lot of us do not follow your reasoning and your theology.

Of course God has a plan for all of us, including who we marry (if we marry). But this is totally different than your original statement that the only important thing for potential spouses to know what the it was their parents who arranged it.

if you don't understand what Scripture says about Yhwh's authority, then that could be confusing to you or anyone, yes.
that is why so much confusion is in the world today, especially sad in the churches.
Yhwh doesn't have to explain anything, does He? Will you require an explanation from Him before you decide to obey Him ?
His Word says "children, obey your parents" all throughout Scripture actually.
So His authority is for a family through the parents. Simple. (not seen in the world, but simple and true nonetheless )
my reasoning and theology, as you put it, is simple, and not mine own initiated - as Yeshua says, seek ABBA, do what He says, speak what He says.
that is rare in today's world, even among 'christiandom', as well as among the Jews.

also, you misquoted me - I never said the only important thing for potential spouses to know was that their parents arranged it.
I said specifically "In Yhwh's community" all they need to know is that their parents appointed them for one another.(arranged it).

"In Yhwh's community" there is one most important thing to know - as Yeshua, King Solomon and King David, the Apostles, the Prophets, and Mary the mother of Yeshua all say (in union with ABBA,in Scripture) >
"go to Yeshua, and do as He says"
("seek ABBA and do what He says" for Yeshua;
"seek Yhwh and do what He says" for the OT )
i.e. always obey the Creator. that is what's important. and simple.
(see what happened to Adam and Eve when they didn't obey? same with many today)

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

And more than one wife... Is that God's way?

look up polygamy Jews Israel History online Reba,
you'll be pleasantly surprised to find that Yhwh did not approve of polygamy. (neither did the nation Israel/ the Jews)

 

[Deborah13]

It means exactly what Yhwh's Word(the Bible) means. Nothing more, nothing less.
society has changed(for the worse) and is headed towards hell in a handbasket.
Notice though I specified "in Yhwh's community"; not in pagan, worldly, carnal, plunging headlong in sin, society.
Yhwh's Word has never changed.

Jacob's parents did not arrange his marriages. Jacob asked Rachel's father for her, that still happens in this day and age.

 

[Obadiah]

And more than one wife... Is that God's way?

I think this would be an interesting subject for someone (maybe His-nee?) to start a thread on IF it could be discussed intelligently and without the inferences that different perspectives and opinions on what scripture says don't necessarily come from the person's unwillingness to accept God's word, or so many of the other personal attacks that tend to happen. There are a lot of things accepted in mainstream Christianity in these areas that I think a lot of Christians don't really understand, and it would be good to develop an understanding of the why's and hows of how we believe and how we interpret God's word. I've seen even pastors struggle with the question of multiple wives, arranged marriages, etc. and not be able to give a convincing answer that didn't sound like stretching. We should always have an answer ready to defend our beliefs, and open non-condemning discussions among believers is a good way to learn, as well as a good way to refine and correct our own beliefs.

 

[Kathi]

And more than one wife... Is that God's way?

I wonder if the Mormon's still do polygamy?

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

yes, but they're not in Yhwh's community. (the majority of them are not even trying to be saved.let alone saved.)

 

[Obadiah]

if you don't understand what Scripture says about Yhwh's authority, then that could be confusing to you or anyone, yes.

Well, see, this is exactly the type of personal attack that hinders discussion and learning. My disagreement and misunderstanding is not from your answers that I found to be confusing and rather round about and even contradictory, but rather is simply from my not properly understanding scripture. Maybe it's not such a good idea for discussion afterall. Lets get back to the OP.

 

[Deborah13]

look up polygamy Jews Israel History online Reba,
you'll be pleasantly surprised to find that Yhwh did not approve of polygamy. (neither did the nation Israel/ the Jews)

Why did God make a law to protect the first wife when the husband took a second wife, both financially and in providing her with children? Are you sure the nation of Israel did not approve?
Just something to think about; I don't want to derail the thread.

 

[Obadiah]

I wonder if the Mormon's still do polygamy?

From what I've learned of them, there are some parts of the Mormon's that do, but they try to keep it quiet. The Mormon church publicly denies this belief these days in order to stay within the law and avoid legal problems as much as possible. But there have been those who have been caught and charged lately.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

I think this would be an interesting subject for someone (maybe His-nee?) to start a thread on IF it could be discussed intelligently and without the inferences that different perspectives and opinions on what scripture says don't necessarily come from the person's unwillingness to accept God's word, or so many of the other personal attacks that tend to happen. There are a lot of things accepted in mainstream Christianity in these areas that I think a lot of Christians don't really understand, and it would be good to develop an understanding of the why's and hows of how we believe and how we interpret God's word. I've seen even pastors struggle with the question of multiple wives, arranged marriages, etc. and not be able to give a convincing answer that didn't sound like stretching. We should always have an answer ready to defend our beliefs, and open non-condemning discussions among believers is a good way to learn, as well as a good way to refine and correct our own beliefs.

Well, see, this is exactly the type of personal attack that hinders discussion and learning. My disagreement and misunderstanding is not from your answers that I found to be confusing and rather round about and even contradictory, but rather is simply from my not properly understanding scripture. Maybe it's not such a good idea for discussion afterall. Lets get back to the OP.

a new thread is otw(*), and realize it's not a personal attack, but as you stated above about mainstream "don't really understand'.
the goal (of Yhwh and His Word and the ecclesia immersed in Yeshua and me) is the complete and perfect functioning of all the parts of the Body of Christ , totally free from sin and from the consequences of sin in His Grace by His Doing and by His Faithfulness..


(*) gotta think of a title..... ... ah! got one "Complete and Perfect Functioning....."

 

[for_his_glory]

humbleness of heart, humility and integrity as within these three alone will tell what kind a person they are. these were the first three things I saw in my husband when we first met.

 

[for_his_glory]

Gen 29:9 And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them.
Gen 29:10 And it came to pass, when Jacob saw Rachel the daughter of Laban his mother's brother, and the sheep of Laban his mother's brother, that Jacob went near, and rolled the stone from the well's mouth, and watered the flock of Laban his mother's brother.
Gen 29:11 And Jacob kissed Rachel, and lifted up his voice, and wept.
Gen 29:12 And Jacob told Rachel that he was her father's brother, and that he was Rebekah's son: and she ran and told her father.

Sounds to me like we should marry our cousins...

some States allow you to marry your first cousin

 

[Kathi]

some States allow you to marry your first cousin

Hmmm...I am thinking those are Southern States.I wouldn't think first cousin.Maybe second.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hmmm...I am thinking those are Southern States.I wouldn't think first cousin.Maybe second.

Not to go off topic, but I have a curious mind that had to look it up

First cousin marriage is allowed in these states under the following circumstances:

Arizona- if both are 65 or older, or one is unable to reproduce.

Illinois- if both are 50 or older, or one is unable to reproduce.

Indiana- if both are at least 65.

Maine- if couple obtains a physician's certificate of genetic counseling.

Utah- if both are 65 or older, or if both are 55 or older and one is unable to reproduce.

Wisconsin- if the woman is 55 or older, or one is unable to reproduce.

 

[Kathi]

Not to go off topic, but I have a curious mind that had to look it up

First cousin marriage is allowed in these states under the following circumstances:

Arizona- if both are 65 or older, or one is unable to reproduce.

Illinois- if both are 50 or older, or one is unable to reproduce.

Indiana- if both are at least 65.

Maine- if couple obtains a physician's certificate of genetic counseling.

Utah- if both are 65 or older, or if both are 55 or older and one is unable to reproduce.

Wisconsin- if the woman is 55 or older, or one is unable to reproduce.

That is suprising...Maine and Utah?

 

[agua.]

Jacob's parents did not arrange his marriages. Jacob asked Rachel's father for her, that still happens in this day and age.

I suppose they didn't arrange it but they limited the options a bit.

Gen 28:2 KJV Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.

 

[Obadiah]

Jacob's parents did not arrange his marriages. Jacob asked Rachel's father for her, that still happens in this day and age.

I suppose they didn't arrange it but they limited the options a bit.

Gen 28:2 KJV Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.

I've never known anyone today that got married this way. Does this really happen in modern civilized countries these days? Let's look at it:

Jacob had indeed been instructed by Issac (his father) to go to Laban's house and select a wife: "Arise, go to Paddan-aram, to the house of Bethuel your mother’s father; and from there take to yourself a wife from the daughters of Laban your mother’s brother." (Gen 28:2 NASB) So Jacob's father had indeed made the decision for Jacob and sent him on a mission to pick out a wife from one of Laban's two daughters. He chose Rachel, but his choices were indeed limited by his father to only those two women from that one family. That seems pretty arranged to me.

So did Jacob have to buy Rachel? Laban was Rachel's father and Jacob went to work for him. Laban said to Jacob: "Tell me, what shall your wages be?" (Gen 29:15b. NASB) Jacob asks for Rachel as his wages: Jacob said “I will serve you seven years for your younger daughter Rachel.” (Gen 29:18b. NASB) There was no indication of Rachel having any part in this negotiation. Jacob then agreed to pay for her by working for 7 years for Laban. Now the average wage in the United States these days is around $44,000, so that means Jacob paid the equivalent of over $300,000 for Rachel, but then got cheated out of her and had to work another 7 years to finally purchase her, for a total price of around $600,000, a high price indeed to be paid by a common worker! This was not just a simple gift given to Rachel's family. There may be some remote parts of the world where this still happens, but I've never heard of anything even close to this ever happening among anyone I know.

I think this was indeed an arranged marriage in that Rachel was bought and paid for with a high price and didn't seem to have any say in the matter herself. Her wants and feelings were not considered and this was not a decision made between Jacob and Rachel, with Jacob simply performing a formality of asking her father for permission to marry her. This was the very expensive purchase of a man's daughter from him for marriage.