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What do you think the scripture means in 2 Cor 5:10?

Mister E said:
Good thread! I love it when someone just wants to talk about things. When they want to think things through and possibly consider different perspectives- for what they are worth. Never forget the poor widow, who offered her two cents worth and of her it was said- her two cents was of more value than all other contributors.

"This poor widow put in more than all the contributors to the treasury for they all put in out of their surplus, but she, out of her poverty, put in all she owned, all she had to live on.”

So--- wonderful. Let's have an exchange of thoughts. That kind of exchange is more valuable than gold.
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Pretty interesting contribution...had not thought of that widow and what Jesus had to say about her small contribution. He looked at what she did and knew the price she paid to give what she gave. It would not be forgotten. So small in the eyes of man deeds might be counted as big in the eyes of God, right?
 
evenifigoalone said:
I never thought about that. Are there any other scriptures that talk about the judgement seat?

I am kinda reminded of the Catholic idea of purgatory. All souls go there, according to Catholicism, at least from what my Catholic friends have told me.
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Ever wonder where they came up with that idea? There is a member here who has developed an entire theology around this idea that even if (and when) you die and even if you go to hell, that's not the end. His name is Alfred Persson and here is a link to a thread where he presents his ideas-

Could God's plan for the lost be this simple?

Surely Omniscient God would not create if most of those who come into existence, are lost forever. If a man built a factory that lost over 90% of its product, he would be labeled a fool. Did God have a sure fire plan that did not rely on humans for success? Could it be this simple, He makes all...
christianforums.net christianforums.net

He teaches that people suffer in hell until they repent, then once having suffered enough they rise in the resurrection to new life. Well, he says they are judged, sent to hell where they suffer until the repent and confess and then having come to the realization that their only salvation from that torment is belief in Christ-- so that on that final judgment day they emerge from the grave to resurrection of life.

And no-- he's not Catholic.... he's very much an entrenched Calvinist I would say-- but he's built a construct of faith around this one idea of "postmortem evangelism." He even wrote a book on it.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Pretty interesting contribution...had not thought of that widow and what Jesus had to say about her small contribution. He looked at what she did and knew the price she paid to give what she gave. It would not be forgotten. So small in the eyes of man deeds might be counted as big in the eyes of God, right?
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Every one has an opinion and a right to offer it. It's biblical proof that the two cents of some is worth more than others. :)
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Yes I agree. Of course admitting you don’t know is better than offering an ignorant opinion just to avoid that situation
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Absolutely! And as my Dad used to quote- “It is better to sit in silence and have folks wonder if you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!”

No, it’s far better. It’s far better to have doubt. It’s FAR better to have questions you cannot answer than to blindly accept answers they tell you you cannot question.
 
Mister E said:
Absolutely! And as my Dad used to quote- “It is better to sit in silence and have folks wonder if you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!”

No, it’s far better. It’s far better to have doubt. It’s FAR better to have questions you cannot answer than to blindly accept answers they tell you you cannot question.
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Nice wording…I’ll remember that one..
 
Dorothy Mae said:
In the scripture you quote he is separating nations judging them. By what measure? Faith in Him? No, the deeds done in the body.

That is my query.
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Jesus said to believe in God and to believe in Him also.

By the term BELIEVE IN HIM He meant that we are to follow Him as He is our teacher in spiritual matters.

I don't see in the NT the concept of being born again as it is understood by many.

Jesus does say in John 3 :5,7 that we must be born also of the spirit.

Then He spent over 3 years telling us how to please God.

This plainly means that we must please God.
 
wondering said:
Jesus said to believe in God and to believe in Him also.

By the term BELIEVE IN HIM He meant that we are to follow Him as He is our teacher in spiritual matters.

I don't see in the NT the concept of being born again as it is understood by many.

Jesus does say in John 3 :5,7 that we must be born also of the spirit.

Then He spent over 3 years telling us how to please God.

This plainly means that we must please God.
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I agree. Jesus told exactly one person they must be “born again”…exactly 1.
 
wondering said:
But I do believe He meant it for every person born.

Jesus spoke about God's Kingdom on earth.
How to be, and remain, a member of it.

But this is more difficult to accept for some.
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Actually, how Jesus communicated the good news was different for different people because he was very in tune with where they were at in their mind. What we’ve done is take a one size fits all approach and reduced it down to an easy, “you need this experience” message.

What he meant for all men is not the “born again” experience which is only a metaphor, but that men repent of their sins, seek forgiveness from God and man, and start to live out his teachings.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Actually, how Jesus communicated the good news was different for different people because he was very in tune with where they were at in their mind. What we’ve done is take a one size fits all approach and reduced it down to an easy, “you need this experience” message.

What he meant for all men is not the “born again” experience which is only a metaphor, but that men repent of their sins, seek forgiveness from God and man, and start to live out his teachings.
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I agree.
Being saved does not require a magic formula.
A person doesn't have to know the written word to be saved.
A person is saved in the heart...this can happen different ways.

I don't think the born again experience is a metaphor, however.
That's if we understand metaphor in the same way:

What is metaphor?​


"You're a peach!" We've all heard the expression, and it's a good example of what we call metaphor. A metaphor is a figure of speech in which a word or phrase denoting one kind of object or action is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them: the person being addressed in "you're a peach" is being equated with a peach, with the suggestion being that the person is pleasing or delightful in the way that a peach is pleasing and delightful. A metaphor is an implied comparison, as in "the silk of the singer's voice," in contrast to the explicit compa


IOW, I do believe Jesus literally meant that we are to be born from above...born from God.
Born again:
Once physically and once spiritually.

How this happens, as we agree, could be different, but I do believe one needs to know God and live accordingly.
 
wondering said:
I agree.
Being saved does not require a magic formula.
A person doesn't have to know the written word to be saved.
A person is saved in the heart...this can happen different ways.

I don't think the born again experience is a metaphor, however.
That's if we understand metaphor in the same way:

What is metaphor?​


"You're a peach!" We've all heard the expression, and it's a good example of what we call metaphor. A metaphor is a figure of speech in which a word or phrase denoting one kind of object or action is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them: the person being addressed in "you're a peach" is being equated with a peach, with the suggestion being that the person is pleasing or delightful in the way that a peach is pleasing and delightful. A metaphor is an implied comparison, as in "the silk of the singer's voice," in contrast to the explicit compa


IOW, I do believe Jesus literally meant that we are to be born from above...born from God.
Born again:
Once physically and once spiritually.

How this happens, as we agree, could be different, but I do believe one needs to know God and live accordingly.
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It is clearly a metaphor. Nicodemus thought it was not a metaphor and asked the question necessary if it is not. It is metaphor for the experience of being forgiven of sin and changed. That is the non-metaphor version. But I can see why it is hard to see that as a metaphor. It is so engrained in the minds of the church. It is too bad because it covers up the repentance of sin that is necessary and focuses solely on the experience.

Again, the non-metaphor version is to repent of sin and experience being forgiven and cleansed of all past sin. The new agers also, apparently, use the term "born again" but they do NOT mean repenting of sin and being forgiven by God. It is a vague metaphor and can be used to mean entirely different things.
 
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Dorothy Mae said:
It is clearly a metaphor. Nicodemus thought it was not a metaphor and asked the question necessary if it is not. It is metaphor for the experience of being forgiven of sin and changed. That is the non-metaphor version. But I can see why it is hard to see that as a metaphor. It is so engrained in the minds of the church. It is too bad because it covers up the repentance of sin that is necessary and focuses solely on the experience.


Again, the non-metaphor version is to repent of sin and experience being forgiven and cleansed of all past sin.
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But don't all Christians believe in your last sentence?

The steps are:
realize you are a sinner
be sorry for it
turn to God

And in this mix it's the atonement Jesus offered that "pays" for our sins.
There are different atonement theories...I'm not a fan of the penal substitution theory, but that's another subject.
 
wondering said:
But don't all Christians believe in your last sentence?

The steps are:
realize you are a sinner
be sorry for it
turn to God

And in this mix it's the atonement Jesus offered that "pays" for our sins.
There are different atonement theories...I'm not a fan of the penal substitution theory, but that's another subject.
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I agreed, the penal substitution is a theory and an other subject. Let us not go there.

I thought of something and added to my post. The new agers use "born again" too but do not mean repentant of sin and receiving forgiveness so I would be cautious in assuming the meaning is concrete.

For some it means "accepting (poor and homeless) Jesus into your heart" something found no where in the Bible. Most gospel preaching does not include repentance. (It is uncomfortable and embarrassing.) They just use the "pray after me....I accept you Jesus into my heart" whereas the real question is does God accept us. If sin is mentioned, it is in the benign terms of "well everyone sins. You are born with a sin nature so no worries, its not embarrassing. It just means you are like the rest of us, imperfect. So repent of the sin nature you were born with and cannot help and so avoid the difficult task of humbling yourself and admitting you have sinned against God and man."
 
Dorothy Mae said:
I agreed, the penal substitution is a theory and an other subject. Let us not go there.

I thought of something and added to my post. The new agers use "born again" too but do not mean repentant of sin and receiving forgiveness so I would be cautious in assuming the meaning is concrete.

For some it means "accepting (poor and homeless) Jesus into your heart" something found no where in the Bible. Most gospel preaching does not include repentance. (It is uncomfortable and embarrassing.) They just use the "pray after me....I accept you Jesus into my heart" whereas the real question is does God accept us. If sin is mentioned, it is in the benign terms of "well everyone sins. You are born with a sin nature so no worries, its not embarrassing. It just means you are like the rest of us, imperfect. So repent of the sin nature you were born with and cannot help and so avoid the difficult task of humbling yourself and admitting you have sinned against God and man."
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Yes, I have read posts that support what you say above.
I've heard that all you have to do is accept Jesus one time and you're saved forever,
and even if you do nothing after that. (since Jesus has already done it all).

It's comforting to know that most Christians would agree with us.
The odd thing is: You DO have to accept Jesus into your heart, so the word doesn't sound very ominous to me.
However, I do understand what you mean and I do agree.
 
wondering said:
Yes, I have read posts that support what you say above.
I've heard that all you have to do is accept Jesus one time and you're saved forever,
and even if you do nothing after that. (since Jesus has already done it all).

It's comforting to know that most Christians would agree with us.
The odd thing is: You DO have to accept Jesus into your heart, so the word doesn't sound very ominous to me.
However, I do understand what you mean and I do agree.
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I think it’s more like being accepted by Jesus than the other way around.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
I think it’s more like being accepted by Jesus than the other way around.
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Indeed.
It's said that Christianity is the only faith that teaches that it's God that reaches down to us.
And we reply.

But the reply has to be what God wants...
Not what we think He wants.
(only accepting His Son)
 
wondering said:
Indeed.
It's said that Christianity is the only faith that teaches that it's God that reaches down to us.
And we reply.

But the reply has to be what God wants...
Not what we think He wants.
(only accepting His Son)
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You know, I asked God once about this “accepting Jesus formula” and I felt like he said that if the heart was humble and the other elements in place as you suggest, the words aren’t important. I asked because for some, they are truly born again but for others, they are as unsaved after as before.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
You know, I asked God once about this “accepting Jesus formula” and I felt like he said that if the heart was humble and the other elements in place as you suggest, the words aren’t important. I asked because for some, they are truly born again but for others, they are as unsaved after as before.
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Agreed whole-heartedly.
Actions speak louder than words.
Faith without works is a dead faith, of no use to anyone.
James
 
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