Bible Study what does it mean to be born again?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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hard to get saved from holy wrath if you're already dead. the Bible records Jesus saved a few people from death . they were alive again. saved from being dead
I must apologize for a number of typos. I usually reread and correct them. No wonder you have questions, my error!!!
I will try again and add the texts in.
Although it may seem like semantics, it is a new beginning. your old life has passed away all things are made new.
2 Cor. 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
The problem is that the teaching of the day denies the power of the resurrection life.
2Tim. 3:5 "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
The religions of today do not believe that people can live in continual obedience as Jesus did. They think sanctification is an experience of sinning less and less. This is a work of the flash. Their idea of victory are those small spaces of time between each sin. The scripture provides us with the promises that we will be kept.
Jude 24 "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,"
Until you believe that you have died and have been born again to a new life and knowing that you will be kept from falling
Romans 6:2-7 " God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin"
Col. 3:3 "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."
2 Peter 4:1,2 "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God."
1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
God has declared that you are dead. Do you believe His word?
Apostate Christianity today believes in an experience of sinning and repenting kind of like a gerbil on the exercise wheel. Expending a lot of energy but never getting anywhere.
Every day familiar spirits bring suggestions that try to get us to doubt that our fallen nature was put to death. Regardless of how we feel by the things they say we stand alone on the word of our Father that we are indeed dead and by faith we put another nail in the coffin of the old man. This is the resurrection life.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
We are all born with a nature to sin because of the fall of Adam and Eve who introduced sin into the world allowing to fall to Satan's temptation. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, that's a fact. But, to those who are of Christ need to get up every morning and crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh. No one has to sin like it's some kind of command to do so as it's a freewill choice to fall to the temptations Satan loves to place before us.
Even a Spiritually born again child of God will mess up at times as we are still mortal living in a corruptible fleshly body where the sin nature dwells. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but when we do we have an intercessor (Christ Jesus) before the Father who makes intercession for us and forgives our sin when we repent of them. There will always be a struggle between the flesh and the Spirit and sometimes the flesh will win the battle, but never the war. A Spiritually born again indwelled with the Holy Spirit child of God should never willfully sin like we plan to do so, but yet we see ourselves messing up at times and having to admit to our downfall we need help from God to work on. Does that mean we are no longer God's own, no, it just means we are yet housed in this fleshly body, but yet without excuse.
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Satan will always try to plant doubt in out mind, but those who are Christ own will never doubt their salvation through Christ.
Damnation being cast into the Lake of fire being separated from God forever.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The reason people "mess up" as you say is because they believe the lie that you have expressed. This teaching is from the enemy of your soul. Romans 6:6 clearly states that "your old man was crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed." and sin has no dominion over you. The word of God also says that you are dead and your life is hidden with Christ in God. I have never seen a dead man 'mess up'.
I would council you to believe God's word. Live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
Dare to believe that He is able to keep you from falling and present you faultless. Jude 24
1 John 3 :9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
1 Peter 1:23 "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."
If the Son is in you and He is the one willing and doing according to His good will how can you fail?
Rom. 13:14 "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."
If you believe that you are bound to 'mess up' on occasion that is what you will have, according to your faith it will be unto you.
There is only one Gift and it is your assurance of continual obedience, and a victorious life.
So, there are only 2 real Christians on this site Hopeful 2 and leroy. Your both so special.
As mentioned before, I am willing to bet the farm that family and friends will not say you are sinless.
Both of you are without sin, like Jesus Christ.
Do you both believe that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh and is fully God and fully human?
As mentioned before, I am willing to bet the farm that family and friends will not say you are sinless.
Both of you are without sin, like Jesus Christ.
Do you both believe that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh and is fully God and fully human?
I feel like I have shared what the bible evidence says about Jesus. I know my view contradict both Catholic and Protestant understanding. Yet I use their own language on the subject, "fully god and fully man". Yet for some reason there seems to be some kind of cognitive disconnect. Perhaps it's a poor illustration but it's like saying, fully race car and fully driver. On the track they become as one unit but Mario Andretti is not a Camaro and the Camaro is not Andretti. Andretti existed long before the Camaro which found its origins in a steel foundry and a General Motors factory. But on the track they become as one. Man and machine are combined into one winner of the race.
Jesus had his origins in the body of Mary, in her ovary. He was a genetic descendent of David, Abraham and by extension Adam (fully human). The Son of God is eternal and divine (fully God). He created the world and Adam, from whom Jesus came into being. I have extrapolated from the scriptural text my understanding on this, and I have found nothing to refute it.
Scripture clearly states that God gave us eternal life in this life is in His Son. Paul says, "Christ in you the hope of glory".
I am fully human and the Son of God is fully divine, and we are one. He is my spirit and I am His flesh and bone. The plan of redemption is to make God and man indivisibly one and Jesus was the prime example of what God is doing for us. We lost our life in Eden and God has given us a new source of life but this life is divine and it comes in the personal indwelling of the Son. Since the Son of God is our life and his life is eternal we now have eternal life. If He would ever leave us we would cease to exist because he is our life. So my understanding is that the Son was given to the human race forever and the only place the Father would ever see His Son again is when he looks in our eyes. This is a Gift beyond my understanding and it came at an unfathomable sacrifice. Not just a 33 year life as a human ending with torture and death, but a life that is so intimately blended in a marriage union with each and every one of the redeemed. We are being eternally drawn closer and closer to the Father through His Son. Through the plan of redemption man and God become one, this can be seen in the prayer in Jesus in John 17. The incarnation is to encompass the whole human race if they will have it so.
It is beyond me why this is such a mystery as it is so simple an answer to the blending of God and man. It may come in part that the flesh would naturally conjure up that if God lives in me then I can claim to be God. No the truth is that I become nothing and he becomes all and in all. I retain my unique personhood and character but He is God and Sovereign over my life.
While there is a lot of truth in what you are saying, there is also a lot of room for misinterpretation. Can you please clarify whether or not you are promoting the doctrine of sinless perfection?
The new man is "created according to God in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24), but the flesh "grows corrupt acording to the deceitful lusts" (Eph 4:22). That is why we who have been born again are told to "put off the old man" and "put on the new man" (Eph 4:22-24) and that walking in the Spirit is the only way to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Ga 5:16). So, sinless perfection exists only in the new creature created when Christ comes to live in a persons heart, not in the body in which he currently lives.
What did I miss? You gave a definition of "born again" that isn't in the Bible and goes against the plain definition it gives. In doing so, you misrepresent the resurrection of Jesus.
You use the language, but make it mean something else.
It has been refuted several times.
Your understanding of the incarnation is not correct. That is where the issue lies. It essentially means "to be made in human flesh." The Son of God did not come and possess Jesus, as you believe, he is Jesus--two natures, human and divine, in one person.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (ESV)
The Word didn't come and enter into Jesus, he became Jesus; he is the Word in human flesh.
Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (ESV)
Paul provides a little more detail than John, but says the same thing. The Son "emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant" and was "born in the likeness of men." He didn't enter some other man, he was and is the man; he truly was human.
Because that isn't biblical.
Sinless Perfectionism - Eternal Perspective Ministries
There are several passages of Scripture we can look at that I think make clear this doctrine of sinless perfectionism is incorrect.
www.epm.org
Paul struggled with sin even after his conversion, Romans 7:7-24
Paul rebuked Peter for not eating with Gentiles calling him a hypocrite Galatians 2:11-14.
The doctrine of sinless perfectionism doesn't keep someone from sinning, it simply prevents them from recognizing they are sinning.