Bible Study what does it mean to be born again?

[for_his_glory]

the only place the Father would ever see His Son again is when he looks in our eyes

Well, this comes against Psalms 110:1; Mark 16:19; Romans 8:34, Hebrews 1:3 and so many more scriptures that state Jesus now sits at the right hand of God in heaven.

 

[Hopeful 2]

So, there are only 2 real Christians on this site Hopeful 2 and leroy. Your both so special.

I hope we are not the only ones that love obey God.
I am certainly nothing special.
You don't have to be special to love flawlessly.

As mentioned before, I am willing to bet the farm that family and friends will not say you are sinless.

I will bet the farm that none of them can accuse me of any sin.

Both of you are without sin, like Jesus Christ.

Isn't that why He came ?
It is written..."Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." (Acts 3:26)

Do you both believe that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh and is fully God and fully human?

Would that knowledge provoke you to really turn from sin ?

 

[leroy]

While there is a lot of truth in what you are saying, there is also a lot of room for misinterpretation. Can you please clarify whether or not you are promoting the doctrine of sinless perfection?

The new man is "created according to God in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24), but the flesh "grows corrupt acording to the deceitful lusts" (Eph 4:22). That is why we who have been born again are told to "put off the old man" and "put on the new man" (Eph 4:22-24) and that walking in the Spirit is the only way to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Ga 5:16).

I don't know any one who teaches the doctrine of sinless perfection. I think it was derived out of an ignorance of the power of the new birth and used as a disqualifying epithet to relieve the carnal Christian of his inability to live as a true believer. This a label that has been thrown at me and others as a misdirect.
There are those who know they are corrupt to the bone but as a born again Christian believe God that their old nature of sin has been crucified and buried and therefore walks in newness of life. His life is one of continual obedience to all the Father's directions. One who is born again never violates his conscience, for that would render him dead. Therefore his fallen nature is ineffective. Sin and the Adamic nature have no dominion over him, for he is a new creature and a partaker of the divine nature by which he has escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. This cannot be faked or worked up in the flesh. One cannot get to heaven by white knuckling it. When the weakest believer places the full weight of his faith upon his merciful redeemer, he will overcome and it will be as though it was a natural impulse. The devil is no match for a soul like this.
You wrote "created according to God in true righteousness and holiness"
This is not of his self, but it is the righteousness and holiness of the Son with whom he is one.
Eph 4:22 "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."
"renewed in the spirit of you mind" the mind of Christ which every true believer has.
In Romans 6:6 Paul writes "...the old man and the body of sin were destroyed." (Paraphrased). He is admonishing the believers to walk by faith. That is to say your Father believes you are dead and so should you. It is already true and you should 'put it on'. According to your faith it will be unto you.

You wrote, "So, sinless perfection exists only in the new creature created when Christ comes to live in a persons heart, not in the body in which he currently lives."
I don't understand how you can have a heart outside of the body in which you live.
In Hebrews 11:40 we read, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."
This word 'perfect' in the lexicon equates it with 'complete' or to "add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full"
We have come to the final days and the Father is finishing the work in us. This 'better thing' will complete the believers in preparation to leave the planet, and demonstrate that if the patriarchs who came before us had lived in our day they too would have come to this completion. In that God is completing that work in us He covers all those who have gone before with the same completion. They are 'made perfect'
Anyone who is hoping or claiming perfection is not well in their mind. Aside from the fact that one would have to be looking at their self to see if they were perfect or not. The true believer keeps his eyes on the Father and it is the Father's prerogative to declare something perfect.

 

[electedbyHim]

I don't know any one who teaches the doctrine of sinless perfection. I think it was derived out of an ignorance of the power of the new birth and used as a disqualifying epithet to relieve the carnal Christian of his inability to live as a true believer. This a label that has been thrown at me and others as a misdirect.
There are those who know they are corrupt to the bone but as a born again Christian believe God that their old nature of sin has been crucified and buried and therefore walks in newness of life. His life is one of continual obedience to all the Father's directions. One who is born again never violates his conscience, for that would render him dead. Therefore his fallen nature is ineffective. Sin and the Adamic nature have no dominion over him, for he is a new creature and a partaker of the divine nature by which he has escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. This cannot be faked or worked up in the flesh. One cannot get to heaven by white knuckling it. When the weakest believer places the full weight of his faith upon his merciful redeemer, he will overcome and it will be as though it was a natural impulse. The devil is no match for a soul like this.
You wrote "created according to God in true righteousness and holiness"
This is not of his self, but it is the righteousness and holiness of the Son with whom he is one.
Eph 4:22 "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."
"renewed in the spirit of you mind" the mind of Christ which every true believer has.
In Romans 6:6 Paul writes "...the old man and the body of sin were destroyed." (Paraphrased). He is admonishing the believers to walk by faith. That is to say your Father believes you are dead and so should you. It is already true and you should 'put it on'. According to your faith it will be unto you.

You wrote, "So, sinless perfection exists only in the new creature created when Christ comes to live in a persons heart, not in the body in which he currently lives."
I don't understand how you can have a heart outside of the body in which you live.
In Hebrews 11:40 we read, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."
This word 'perfect' in the lexicon equates it with 'complete' or to "add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full"
We have come to the final days and the Father is finishing the work in us. This 'better thing' will complete the believers in preparation to leave the planet, and demonstrate that if the patriarchs who came before us had lived in our day they too would have come to this completion. In that God is completing that work in us He covers all those who have gone before with the same completion. They are 'made perfect'
Anyone who is hoping or claiming perfection is not well in their mind. Aside from the fact that one would have to be looking at their self to see if they were perfect or not. The true believer keeps his eyes on the Father and it is the Father's prerogative to declare something perfect.

Much confusion here.

Are you claiming you never sin as a Christian?

Yes or no will do.

 

[leroy]

What did I miss? You gave a definition of "born again" that isn't in the Bible and goes against the plain definition it gives. In doing so, you misrepresent the resurrection of Jesus.


You use the language, but make it mean something else.


It has been refuted several times.


Your understanding of the incarnation is not correct. That is where the issue lies. It essentially means "to be made in human flesh." The Son of God did not come and possess Jesus, as you believe, he is Jesus--two natures, human and divine, in one person.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (ESV)

The Word didn't come and enter into Jesus, he became Jesus; he is the Word in human flesh.

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (ESV)

Paul provides a little more detail than John, but says the same thing. The Son "emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant" and was "born in the likeness of men." He didn't enter some other man, he was and is the man; he truly was human.


Because that isn't biblical.

Well Free, I don't know what to say, we look at the same thing and see something differently. Yes, the incarnation is an important key.
If God dwells in you, is He still Fully God?
If you are dwelling in Him, are you fully human?
Is this God in human flesh? Isn't this the incarnation?

 

[Free]

Well Free, I don't know what to say, we look at the same thing and see something differently.

Yes, and what you see goes against historical, orthodox Christianity.

Yes, the incarnation is an important key.

The Incarnation is central to Christian belief and must be rightly understood.

If God dwells in you, is He still Fully God?
If you are dwelling in Him, are you fully human?

Of course.

Is this God in human flesh? Isn't this the incarnation?

Absolutely not. That goes against the very thing John clearly states—“the Word became flesh.” Neither John nor Paul says that the Son came and merely dwelt in human flesh. Both say that he became flesh, that he was born as a human, being both truly God and truly man, two natures in one person.

 

[JLB]

Psalms 2:7 says, ".... Thou art my son this day I have begotten thee."
Acts 13:30-33 says that this was a prophecy of the Resurrection.
Jesus was born in a stable and was born again in a garden tomb.

Jesus Christ, being God the Son, was never born again.

 

[JLB]

Well Free, I don't know what to say, we look at the same thing and see something differently. Yes, the incarnation is an important key.
If God dwells in you, is He still Fully God?
If you are dwelling in Him, are you fully human?
Is this God in human flesh? Isn't this the incarnation?

The incarnation was God becoming flesh.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

 

[leroy]

Much confusion here.

Are you claiming you never sin as a Christian?

Yes or no will do.

Hello friend,
Some have ask this question hoping I will say no, so that they can breath a sigh of relief that their life of sinning and repenting is still up to the standard of nominal Christianity. And if I answer with yes, I never sin, they can laugh me off as a crank, and breath a sigh of relief......
However, there are those who feel a soul hunger and will ask that question because they want this life too.

I once shared this life with one who had been living close to God and knew what it was to overcome the assaults of the enemy. She was encouraged by friends that she needed fellowship and persuaded her to come to their church. The low standard of feel good christianity in that place had its effect and she lost what she had. She was infected by these lukewarm happy day 'believers' and lost that precious experience. She had long hungered to have it back but did not know why she lost it or why it never returned. It was because she believed teachings that sucked the life out of the word of God and blocked it. After sharing with her for just one day, she could see the errors she had accepted and it all came together. Once again she was rejoicing in that life and it kept her.

As to your question I will say this

"If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse." Job 9:20
I know very well the experience of being kept by the power of the resurrection life, and I know who deserves the glory.
If we simply give our consent, The Son will identify His own self with our thoughts and purposes so that we will think His thoughts after Him. Our goals will be His goals. He will gently blend our heart and mind into conformity to His will and when obeying Him it will be as though we are carrying out our own natural impulses. When you know God as it is your privilege to know Him your life will be a life of continual obedience.
Are you interested in having this life?

 

[leroy]

Is that a yes or no answer?

The question is are you interested to know more?

 

[electedbyHim]

Hello friend,
Some have ask this question hoping I will say no, so that they can breath a sigh of relief that their life of sinning and repenting is still up to the standard of nominal Christianity. And if I answer with yes, I never sin, they can laugh me off as a crank, and breath a sigh of relief......
However, there are those who feel a soul hunger and will ask that question because they want this life too.

I once shared this life with one who had been living close to God and knew what it was to overcome the assaults of the enemy. She was encouraged by friends that she needed fellowship and persuaded her to come to their church. The low standard of feel good christianity in that place had its effect and she lost what she had. She was infected by these lukewarm happy day 'believers' and lost that precious experience. She had long hungered to have it back but did not know why she lost it or why it never returned. It was because she believed teachings that sucked the life out of the word of God and blocked it. After sharing with her for just one day, she could see the errors she had accepted and it all came together. Once again she was rejoicing in that life and it kept her.

As to your question I will say this

"If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse." Job 9:20
I know very well the experience of being kept by the power of the resurrection life, and I know who deserves the glory.
If we simply give our consent, The Son will identify His own self with our thoughts and purposes so that we will think His thoughts after Him. Our goals will be His goals. He will gently blend our heart and mind into conformity to His will and when obeying Him it will be as though we are carrying out our own natural impulses. When you know God as it is your privilege to know Him your life will be a life of continual obedience.
Are you interested in having this life?

Some have ask this question hoping I will say no, so that they can breath a sigh of relief that their life of sinning and repenting is still up to the standard of nominal Christianity.

I do not believe a true Christian loves to sin.

Just the opposite, they loathe it.

I understand that you cannot give a straight answer, so I will rephrase the question.

Do you struggle with sin in any way and fall into temptation at times?

Yes or no will do.

A story is not what I am after.

 

[leroy]

Paul struggled with sin even after his conversion, Romans 7:7-24

Yes I too used to look at Romans 7 and it gave me comfort knowing that I was in good company since Paul who had been a strong apostle for Christ and was still having difficulties. Then I read chapter 6, 7 & 8 in one sitting and my eyes were opened to my error.
I knew that if Paul could believe and write what he did in chapters 6 and 8, he could not be living in chapter 7.
A glaring error is and I will paraphrase: the good that I should do I don't do. The evil I know I shouldn't do I end up doing.
This is describing a totally failed experience, not an occasional error or mistake. I could not believe that one who had been such a strong believer and had suffered so much for his beliefs would have the testimony that he sins constantly.
A few passages above that he talks about when we were in the flash, but now in newness of spirit. Then he talks about how the law exposed all of his sins. I say that this is when he was a Pharisee he was speaking of years experience prior to the Damascus Road. Plus you must remember he was speaking to the Jewish Christians in Rome and dealing with their ideas of legalism.
A clarifying verse : If you read with your eyes open you can see he is preaching or exhorting. This was not a humble broken hearted confession. This is a teaching moment. In the last 3 verses of chapter 7 he speaks of the law of sin which held him in captivity.
Now read chapter 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death".
There is a greater law that overthrows the law of sin and death. It is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
Therefore, Paul could not have lived in the victory of chapter 6 and then fell into the failure of chapter 7 and rose to the newness of life in chapter 8 all in one sitting as he probably dictated this letter to Luke.
Also consider what he said to the jewish leaders in Acts 23:1 "And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day." They were very offended and ordered him to be slapped. I think they thought that he was claiming sinless perfection!! ;o)

Paul rebuked Peter for not eating with Gentiles calling him a hypocrite Galatians 2:11-14.

Well, Peter obviously had character flaws that our Father wanted him to see. So the fire is sent to burn away the dross. Did he occationally do this again and again or was he delivered from it? Jesus did say to him "When you're converted... If you want to use Peter's failings to give you reason not to accept a life of continual obedience, you may.

The doctrine of sinless perfectionism doesn't keep someone from sinning, it simply prevents them from recognizing they are sinning.

Its a baloney doctrine.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I don't know any one who teaches the doctrine of sinless perfection.

Until now.

I think it was derived out of an ignorance of the power of the new birth and used as a disqualifying epithet to relieve the carnal Christian of his inability to live as a true believer.

Isn't that counterintuitive ?
Isn't the ignorance of the power of the new birth what accommodates further sinfulness ?

This a label that has been thrown at me and others as a misdirect.
There are those who know they are corrupt to the bone but as a born again Christian believe God that their old nature of sin has been crucified and buried and therefore walks in newness of life. His life is one of continual obedience to all the Father's directions. One who is born again never violates his conscience, for that would render him dead. Therefore his fallen nature is ineffective. Sin and the Adamic nature have no dominion over him, for he is a new creature and a partaker of the divine nature by which he has escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. This cannot be faked or worked up in the flesh. One cannot get to heaven by white knuckling it. When the weakest believer places the full weight of his faith upon his merciful redeemer, he will overcome and it will be as though it was a natural impulse. The devil is no match for a soul like this.

Mind if I quote you on that, while I preach perfect obedience to God ?

You wrote "created according to God in true righteousness and holiness"
This is not of his self, but it is the righteousness and holiness of the Son with whom he is one.
Eph 4:22 "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."
"renewed in the spirit of you mind" the mind of Christ which every true believer has.
In Romans 6:6 Paul writes "...the old man and the body of sin were destroyed." (Paraphrased). He is admonishing the believers to walk by faith. That is to say your Father believes you are dead and so should you. It is already true and you should 'put it on'. According to your faith it will be unto you.

You wrote, "So, sinless perfection exists only in the new creature created when Christ comes to live in a persons heart, not in the body in which he currently lives."
I don't understand how you can have a heart outside of the body in which you live.
In Hebrews 11:40 we read, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."
This word 'perfect' in the lexicon equates it with 'complete' or to "add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full"

I was waiting for your accommodation for sin...Perfect means complete...not "perfect", as written.

We have come to the final days and the Father is finishing the work in us. This 'better thing' will complete the believers in preparation to leave the planet, and demonstrate that if the patriarchs who came before us had lived in our day they too would have come to this completion. In that God is completing that work in us He covers all those who have gone before with the same completion. They are 'made perfect'
Anyone who is hoping or claiming perfection is not well in their mind. Aside from the fact that one would have to be looking at their self to see if they were perfect or not. The true believer keeps his eyes on the Father and it is the Father's prerogative to declare something perfect.

 

[leroy]

I do not believe a true Christian loves to sin.

Just the opposite, they loathe it.

And yet if they continue in it on occasion, they love it. There is a remedy and if they don't take it it is because they love their sin.

I understand that you cannot give a straight answer, so I will rephrase the question.

I hope you can receive this in the spirit of which it is shared. I won't answer a gotcha question, but I will share the truth of what is on my heart in hopes to bless you. But it seems that you refuse to be blessed, it saddens me.

Do you struggle with sin in any way and fall into temptation at times?

Do you mean, struggle with temptation and fall into sin at times?

Perhaps this will answer your question. I had an experience that lasted 3 weeks where 5 or 6 people offended me greatly. I felt waves of anger and hatred roll over me day after day without letup. Did I ever express it? No. But I felt as though I could kill. Never before in my life had I had such an experience with anger and hatred. At the end of those 21 days. I was sitting on my bed and it was like I was in the eye of the storm where there is no wind. It was very quiet and yet I could see the events and the people of the previous three weeks passing around me, but there was nothing in me that reacted to what I saw any more.
It's like God put me in a very quiet place so that He could teach me something very important. I very clearly heard him speak within my heart, "That's not you". It was like gigabytes of information went into my mind and heart in the hearing of those three simple words. The curtain was pulled back and I saw that it was the Devil who was who was offended and filled with hate. I was simply identifying with his suggestions. I saw very clearly that none of those people knew that they were doing anything to me. But I lived through a satanic illusion because I gave consent to it. God was just telling me that all of that hatred and offense was not really mine but I was owning it, I was giving it permission. He simply wanted me to close the door so they could not enter in again. Have I felt offended since? On occasion and then I remember "That's not me" and it disappears. There are ways we leave doors open because we believe things that are not true. But the truth really does MAKE you free, because you are changed. The devil only has power that we give him.

Yes or no will do.

A story is not what I am after.

 

[electedbyHim]

And yet if they continue in it on occasion, they love it. There is a remedy and if they don't take it it is because they love their sin.

I hope you can receive this in the spirit of which it is shared. I won't answer a gotcha question, but I will share the truth of what is on my heart in hopes to bless you. But it seems that you refuse to be blessed, it saddens me.

Do you mean, struggle with temptation and fall into sin at times?

Perhaps this will answer your question. I had an experience that lasted 3 weeks where 5 or 6 people offended me greatly. I felt waves of anger and hatred roll over me day after day without letup. Did I ever express it? No. But I felt as though I could kill. Never before in my life had I had such an experience with anger and hatred. At the end of those 21 days. I was sitting on my bed and it was like I was in the eye of the storm where there is no wind. It was very quiet and yet I could see the events and the people of the previous three weeks passing around me, but there was nothing in me that reacted to what I saw any more.
It's like God put me in a very quiet place so that He could teach me something very important. I very clearly heard him speak within my heart, "That's not you". It was like gigabytes of information went into my mind and heart in the hearing of those three simple words. The curtain was pulled back and I saw that it was the Devil who was who was offended and filled with hate. I was simply identifying with his suggestions. I saw very clearly that none of those people knew that they were doing anything to me. But I lived through a satanic illusion because I gave consent to it. God was just telling me that all of that hatred and offense was not really mine but I was owning it, I was giving it permission. He simply wanted me to close the door so they could not enter in again. Have I felt offended since? On occasion and then I remember "That's not me" and it disappears. There are ways we leave doors open because we believe things that are not true. But the truth really does MAKE you free, because you are changed. The devil only has power that we give him.

Your experiences are not truth.

I did not think you would give a direct answer.

Skip around the question, breed confusion.

Your posts are confusing.

Reminds me of false teachers, always got a story.

 

[leroy]

Your experiences are not truth.

you asked if I struggle...or fall. You just wanted a yes or no? a simple yes or no to an uninformed question moves on me to help you see there is far more to your query than a yes or no. I thought this was a forum of sharing life and experiences that magnify God and His love. Rather than a buffet from the tree of I'm right and you're wrong. The tree of life has much better fruit.
If you cannot see the answer in what I shared, what can I say?
I made it very clear what struggle is about and how it is dealt with.

I did not think you would give a direct answer.

Skip around the question, breed confusion.

Your posts are confusing.

I have a question. What is there in what I have shared that would lead a seeker away from God and salvation?

Reminds me of false teachers, always got a story.

 

[electedbyHim]

you asked if I struggle...or fall. You just wanted a yes or no? a simple yes or no to an uninformed question moves on me to help you see there is far more to your query than a yes or no. I thought this was a forum of sharing life and experiences that magnify God and His love. Rather than a buffet from the tree of I'm right and you're wrong. The tree of life has much better fruit.
If you cannot see the answer in what I shared, what can I say?
I made it very clear what struggle is about and how it is dealt with.

I have a question. What is there in what I have shared that would lead a seeker away from God and salvation?

You do not give direct answers.

God's written word is direct, there is no confusion.

As a Christian you are either sinless or fall into sin at times.

There is no Grey area.

 

[leroy]

You do not give direct answers.

i will give direct a answer

God's written word is direct, there is no confusion.

Is what I share below direct enough?

As a Christian you are either sinless or fall into sin at times.

There is no Grey area.

As a Christian I am neither sinless nor am I falling at times. Both are heresy. A Christian is born of incorruptible Seed that lives and abides forever. It is not an off again and on again life, but those who suffer this do not know what a Christian is.

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.1 Peter 4:1&2
Christians are saved from sin not in sin. As a Christian I am not sinless, I am dead ( there is a difference). There is Another living in me and He always does those things that please the Father. He is the one who does the willing and doing and I get to go along for the ride. All believers believe this and it is true for them.
Is there any question?

 

[electedbyHim]

i will give direct a answer

Is what I share below direct enough?

As a Christian I am neither sinless nor am I falling at times. Both are heresy. A Christian is born of incorruptible Seed that lives and abides forever. It is not an off again and on again life, but those who suffer this do not know what a Christian is.

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.1 Peter 4:1&2
Christians are saved from sin not in sin. As a Christian I am not sinless, I am dead ( there is a difference). There is Another living in me and He always does those things that please the Father. He is the one who does the willing and doing and I get to go along for the ride. All believers believe this and it is true for them.
Is there any question?

Is it possible for a Christian to sin per the Bible?

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes I too used to look at Romans 7 and it gave me comfort knowing that I was in good company since Paul who had been a strong apostle for Christ and was still having difficulties. Then I read chapter 6, 7 & 8 in one sitting and my eyes were opened to my error.
I knew that if Paul could believe and write what he did in chapters 6 and 8, he could not be living in chapter 7.
A glaring error is and I will paraphrase: the good that I should do I don't do. The evil I know I shouldn't do I end up doing.
This is describing a totally failed experience, not an occasional error or mistake. I could not believe that one who had been such a strong believer and had suffered so much for his beliefs would have the testimony that he sins constantly.
A few passages above that he talks about when we were in the flash, but now in newness of spirit. Then he talks about how the law exposed all of his sins. I say that this is when he was a Pharisee he was speaking of years experience prior to the Damascus Road. Plus you must remember he was speaking to the Jewish Christians in Rome and dealing with their ideas of legalism.
A clarifying verse : If you read with your eyes open you can see he is preaching or exhorting. This was not a humble broken hearted confession. This is a teaching moment. In the last 3 verses of chapter 7 he speaks of the law of sin which held him in captivity.
Now read chapter 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death".
There is a greater law that overthrows the law of sin and death. It is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
Therefore, Paul could not have lived in the victory of chapter 6 and then fell into the failure of chapter 7 and rose to the newness of life in chapter 8 all in one sitting as he probably dictated this letter to Luke.
Also consider what he said to the jewish leaders in Acts 23:1 "And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day." They were very offended and ordered him to be slapped. I think they thought that he was claiming sinless perfection!! ;o)


Well, Peter obviously had character flaws that our Father wanted him to see. So the fire is sent to burn away the dross. Did he occationally do this again and again or was he delivered from it? Jesus did say to him "When you're converted... If you want to use Peter's failings to give you reason not to accept a life of continual obedience, you may.

Its a baloney doctrine.

So, you never get angry or have bad thoughts about others even though you do not speak it?