Bible Study What Does It Mean to "Work Out Your Salvation"?

[Sinthesis]

To 'work out' your salvation is to 'exercise' your salvation. Now that you have been freed by Jesus' grace from performing those works you once believed were to merit God's forgiveness, what are you to do? How will you spend your time once you've been given a gift that makes redundant everything that you, in vain effort to earn God' mercy, used to spend your time on?

Phl 2:12 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phl 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Phl 2:14 - Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Phl 2:15 - That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Phl 2:16 - Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.​

Even though Paul is not there to guide you, realize the Holy Spirit is guiding you, that you in turn might serve as guide to the unsaved world, so that Paul's effort, and your efforts, continue to bear fruit. Such a great responsibility is to be assumed with fear and trembling, but not murmuring and dispute.

 

[Christ_empowered]

That cleared things up a lot for me. thanks, sinthesis.

 

[JLB]

As to our present state of affairs script-sure shows us we are planted in dishonour, weakness, corruption in a natural failing body.

It's up to us to cleanse ourselves from being a vessel of dishonor, so that we become a vessel for honor.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21

He has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness, by His divine power... the Holy Spirit.


You seem to think that we are all vessels of dishonor, and there is nothing we can do about... Couldn't be further from the truth.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18


If you are been touched by the enemy, then you are not keeping yourself from sin, and the enemy has a right to torment or oppress you.

This condition does not have to continue.

Seek and ask for the Holy Spirit, and He will teach you how to be free from these things.

It's internal theft. Therefore the perp is internal. We don't see the perp with flesh eyes. Obviously.

3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 2 Corinthians 10:3-4

Those who do believe, the enemy did not steal the seed from their heart, through deception.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Brilliant deduction. It's actually a confirmation of the reality of God's construct of people. Gospel sown, Satan follows to resist in them. God lifts whom He Wills.

Proving that Satan was not present "in their flesh" as you have erroneously taught.



JLB

 

[smaller]

Proving that Satan was not present "in their flesh" as you have erroneously taught.

You should know the scriptures on these matters by heart by now. I won't bother citing them again in this thread to you.

 

[JLB]

You should know the scriptures on these matters by heart by now. I won't bother citing them again in this thread to you.

This is your scripture that you quoted in an attempt to show that Satan dwells in our flesh, that he is present with us.

15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. Mark 4:15

This plainly shows that Satan is not present in the flesh of the unbeliever, but "comes" to where the person who is hearing the Gospel is, in order to try and steal the word from their heart.


JLB

 

[smaller]

This is your scripture that you quoted in an attempt to show that Satan dwells in our flesh, that he is present with us.

There is zero question that the flesh is against and contrary to the Spirit. And that this working is not forensic nor is it empirically proven by scientific methods. Therefore it is an adverse spiritual working against the Spirit. Gal. 5:17. This is WHY we work out our salvation with fear and trembling, because the Spirit is factually against and contrary to our own flesh.

This is a scriptural PILL that the flesh can not swallow nor can the flesh submit to this conclusion. It will rather speak against this conclusion.

 

[JLB]

There is zero question that the flesh is against and contrary to the Spirit

There is zero question that we as born again believer's in Jesus Christ, who have the Spirit of God within us, are to crucify the flesh, so that we do not allow it's sinful desires to express itself as a deed.

And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

and again

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13


I have never seen you acknowledge these scriptures as being true for us, who live and walk by the leading of God's Spirit.

You only teach that we are helpless to be slaves of sin, yet will not be held accountable for the sin's we do commit because it's Satan doing the sinning and not us.

This is false doctrine from the devil, to keep the body of Christ enslaved and in bondage to sin, rather than walking in the power and authority of the new life we have in Christ.


JLB

 

[smaller]

There is zero question that we as born again believer's in Jesus Christ, who have the Spirit of God within us, are to crucify the flesh, so that we do not allow it's sinful desires to express itself as a deed.

Were the flesh really dead, then it would not purpose to be against and contrary to the Spirit and vice versa.

We can claim the flesh is dead, but that has not happened yet. We account it that way because it is forthcoming. Nevertheless this contrary state between the flesh and the Spirit remains with the flesh.

It is my belief that the flesh will speak actively in it's behalf, and it does so contrary to the Spirit.

Gal. 5:17.

God hears no such speakings because He, by His Spirit has already said otherwise.

 

[Deborah13]

To 'work out' your salvation is to 'exercise' your salvation. Now that you have been freed by Jesus' grace from performing those works you once believed were to merit God's forgiveness, what are you to do? How will you spend your time once you've been given a gift that makes redundant everything that you, in vain effort to earn God' mercy, used to spend your time on?

Phl 2:12 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phl 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Phl 2:14 - Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Phl 2:15 - That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Phl 2:16 - Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.​

Even though Paul is not there to guide you, realize the Holy Spirit is guiding you, that you in turn might serve as guide to the unsaved world, so that Paul's effort, and your efforts, continue to bear fruit. Such a great responsibility is to be assumed with fear and trembling, but not murmuring and dispute.

I agree.
It also says to me that the working out of my salvation began in the past at my reconciliation through the Christ, is presently being worked out, and will be complete in the future when I stand before my Maker. That is my hope by the grace of God through faith.

 

[JLB]

Were the flesh really dead, then it would not purpose to be against and contrary to the Spirit and vice versa.

We can claim the flesh is dead, but that has not happened yet. We account it that way because it is forthcoming. Nevertheless this contrary state between the flesh and the Spirit remains with the flesh.


God hears no such speakings because He, by His Spirit has already said otherwise.

Well, you are certainly proving my point more and more as this discussion continues.

Do you acknowledge that born again Christians can and do crucify the flesh, rendering it incapable of expressing it's sinful desires, according to these scriptures, or is it your belief that we are powerless to stop sinning?

And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

and again

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13

It is my belief that the flesh will speak actively in it's behalf, and it does so contrary to the Spirit. Gal. 5:17.

The flesh is indeed contrary to the Spirit.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17


That's why we are told to crucify the flesh, and put to death it's sinful deeds, by walking in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


Do you believe that you are not able to walk after the desires of the Holy Spirit within, rather than walking after the desires of the flesh?



JLB

 

[smaller]

Well, you are certainly proving my point more and more as this discussion continues.

Do you acknowledge that born again Christians can and do crucify the flesh, rendering it incapable of expressing it's sinful desires, according to these scriptures, or is it your belief that we are powerless to stop sinning?

A basic problem exists with understanding what sin is and what constitutes 'a sin.'

Do I believe "internal sin" is eradicated? No. No one becomes sinless, internally.

Jesus shows us in Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 7:21-23 and Matt. 5:28 that evil is an internal fact, a matter of factually existing evil in the heart, shown in "thought" forms that DO defile us. This is not a "maybe." There is no option or choice to not have internal engagements with evil thoughts which DO defile us. The only question is then, are evil thoughts which do defile us SIN?

Paul answers that. Yes. Sin indwells our flesh. Romans 7:17-20. Evil IS present within us. Romans 7:21.

Internal evil thoughts are defiling sin. Sin is a progression from thought to word and ultimately to deed if not kept in check. But that does not mean we are sinless by not externally acting out actions of sin or externally speaking sin's words.

The flesh is indeed contrary to the Spirit.

Indeed it is.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

That's why we are told to crucify the flesh, and put to death it's sinful deeds, by walking in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit.

What we are provided in the scriptures is "disassociation." We are to understand, as Paul did, that indwelling sin in the flesh is NOT us as believers. When we see indwelling sin as an adversary, an internal predator, a slave maker, the path to disassociation becomes much easier and much clearer.

However we do have a very strong basis to rightfully respectfully FEAR our Maker. Because God can and does deal adversely in relationship to sin indwelling the flesh and evil present with us, REGARDLESS of how good we think we are acting/behaving. This is the essence of "working out our salvation" with fear and trembling.

It is no picnic of faith to come to understand the relationship with God in Christ on the adverse side of the ledgers.

God IS the enemy of these operations in the flesh. And yes, I know this fear by hard earned and continual experiences, regardless of how 'good' I think my flesh is. I don't think what is in my flesh is much if any good at all, personally. It's not the flesh, but what is in the flesh. And since this is neither forensic (we can't cut open the flesh and see indwelling sin or evil present) nor can it be empirically scientifically proven, then we should be able to conclude that evil and sin is the work of our ADVERSARY.

Do you believe that you are not able to walk after the desires of the Holy Spirit within, rather than walking after the desires of the flesh?

Were these questions only of ourselves you'd have a point. But they aren't. There is "I" and there is also "no longer I." Romans 7:17-20.

No longer I is not going to cooperate. And even entering into this understanding will in fact bring even more resistance from "no longer I," 1 Cor. 15:56. That is precisely how Paul landed in the seat of the chief of sinners, AFTER salvation. He was not looking at just "I." He was accounting for "no longer I" in his own flesh, as well. 1 Tim. 1:15

 

[Chopper]

I will disagree with him.
There is a difference between confronting error and speaking falsehood. And to claim that the Baptism of Fire is no more... that is false.

As I've said in other posts, I used to believe like MacArthur until the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire happened to me personally. Fire? O my, that fire has never gone out!! Why didn't God Baptize MacArthur in the Holy Spirit like He did me? I don't know. I'm just very thankful to YHWH for His work in my life.

The result of God Himself baptizing me in His Holy Spirit was, it changed my life and ministry dramatically. There came a power working thru me that was never there before. Praise the Name of Yahweh.

 

[Chopper]

This is a great topic to study. I've not anything to add, but do have a question.

I wont pursue frictional debate here with respect to your wishes, Brother. But I would appreciate views on what Paul means in v27 above, so I can chew on it with respect to working out my salvation etc..

Btw, a good morning to you all, Brothers & Sisters!

Hello there my old Buddy. Verse 27 huh? Ok, I'll do my best....1Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

The Apostle Paul had a huge amount of criticism from folk who were jealous of his supernatural ministry, and Jewish enemies who were very upset over being a deserter to Judaism. As a result of the many accusations against Paul, he personally felt that he needed to go way beyond the other Apostles so that they could trust him, and that his enemies would be silenced.

There in Corinth, most everyone was familiar with the stadium games that went on. Something like our Olympics. Therefore, Paul was using that scenario to make a point. In the various games that were played, only one of the many athletes that contended would win the coveted wreath.

So, just like those athletes, the Apostle trained very hard in all his activities so that no one could accuse him of falling short of what they expected from an Apostle of Jesus Christ. After all, Paul was a major witness to the Gentiles which was distasteful to many Jews and they were watching Paul very closely for any slip up.

I know a little about what Paul went thru. I was the Pastor of a Baptist Church that had major problems with carnal Elders that led the other members. My Master Jesus, Who led me to that church, little by little, had me rebuke these men and eventually, because of the power of the Holy Spirit working thru me, had these carnal men voted out of the membership.

Boy, talk about walking on egg shells, I, like Paul, had to be very careful that I didn't do anything that would bring an accusation against me because they were watching me very closely. They even had a man in the membership that reported to this small group, on a regular basis.

I hope this helps to answer your questions. If not, just ask....Love you.

 

[Chopper]

Wow!! I just realized that SPARROW is back with us. Hey old friend, welcome back, I've missed you!! Can't wait to read lots of your great wisdom and knowledge in the Word of Yahweh....Love You.

 

[sparrow]

Howdy Chopper. I finally decided to come back to the wonderful world of forums.
Especially since my daughter needed a hand with hers.

 

[Edward]

Hello there my old Buddy. Verse 27 huh? Ok, I'll do my best....1Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

The Apostle Paul had a huge amount of criticism from folk who were jealous of his supernatural ministry, and Jewish enemies who were very upset over being a deserter to Judaism. As a result of the many accusations against Paul, he personally felt that he needed to go way beyond the other Apostles so that they could trust him, and that his enemies would be silenced.

There in Corinth, most everyone was familiar with the stadium games that went on. Something like our Olympics. Therefore, Paul was using that scenario to make a point. In the various games that were played, only one of the many athletes that contended would win the coveted wreath.

So, just like those athletes, the Apostle trained very hard in all his activities so that no one could accuse him of falling short of what they expected from an Apostle of Jesus Christ. After all, Paul was a major witness to the Gentiles which was distasteful to many Jews and they were watching Paul very closely for any slip up.

I know a little about what Paul went thru. I was the Pastor of a Baptist Church that had major problems with carnal Elders that led the other members. My Master Jesus, Who led me to that church, little by little, had me rebuke these men and eventually, because of the power of the Holy Spirit working thru me, had these carnal men voted out of the membership.

Boy, talk about walking on egg shells, I, like Paul, had to be very careful that I didn't do anything that would bring an accusation against me because they were watching me very closely. They even had a man in the membership that reported to this small group, on a regular basis.

I hope this helps to answer your questions. If not, just ask....Love you.

Wow, ask and ye shall receive, eh Brother?! Interesting...

 

[Chopper]

I aim to please Edward. Since you're one of my favorite people on this Forum, your questions are important to me.

 

[JLB]

I aim to please Edward. Since you're one of my favorite people on this Forum, your questions are important to me.

C'mon Chopper, you know that I'm the favorite. :shades