What Does Jesus Say About A Saved Person Becoming Unsaved ?

[Consecrated Life]

This can not be exact. There are too many ways to see that. And honestly I really don't see how one is boasting in and of theirselves when the onlyway a person can be without sin is to remain in Christ.

What kind of person goes around saying I never sin ?
Is there any clearer sign that a person does sin than when they go around like the Town Crier Saying :
" Now hear ye , hear ye , I never sin !

 

[Consecrated Life]

Your question is loaded with a false premise.



Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.’ ”(Lev. 26:43-45)

Of course the question is false , without any scriptural basis .
Yet isn't it amazing the multitudes of "Christians" who by virtue of their own self-proclaimed super saint status claim to be able to identify individuals who lost their salvation ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Of course the question is false , without any scriptural basis .
Yet isn't it amazing the multitudes of "Christians" who by virtue of their own self-proclaimed super saint status claim to be able to identify individuals who lost their salvation ?

They're under the influence of the Nicolaitans' influence. It's not just any false doctrine in general, but "hypergrace" in particular. This could be traced back to the gnostic dualism, that body and spirit are separate, as long as you're faithful to God in your heart, you can do whatever you want, the body has a mind of its own, and it's inherently evil, what matters is your moral character and good intention. It was the logic behind the saying "my eyes and my hands cause me to sin", and Jesus's teaching about pluck out your eye and cut off your hand was a sarcastic response to that. In Catholicism, you just have to confess your sin to the priest and donate some money to absolve your guilty conscience, then you're good to sin again after the mass. It's a pagan philosophy that leads to pagan practice.

 

[Corinth77777]

What kind of person goes around saying I never sin ?
Is there any clearer sign that a person does sin than when they go around like the Town Crier Saying :
" Now hear ye , hear ye , I never sin !

I think what they are trying to get people to see is that sin can be eradicated. And how can anyone know unless one testifies. People say all the time they sin less and that they are convicted when they sin. How can that be any different.

So the same people who say they sin less or like the one's who say they are sinless.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I think what they are trying to get people to see is that sin can be eradicated. And how can anyone know unless one testifies. People say all the time they sin less and that they are convicted when they sin. How can that be any different.

So the same people who say they sin less or like the one's who say they are sinless.

So then among the dozens of famous publicly recognized accepted Christian preacher/evangelists " testifying" to the world on tv & radio who have brought hundreds of thousands of people to Christ in our lifetime it should be easy to name just one of them who has testified that they no longer commit any sin ?
I would love to hear and read from a famous public Christian Evangelist testifying about their own ability to commit no sin when you name them for me ?

 

[Corinth77777]

So then among the dozens of famous publicly recognized accepted Christian preacher/evangelists " testifying" to the world on tv & radio who have brought hundreds of thousands of people to Christ in our lifetime it should be easy to name just one of them who has testified that they no longer commit any sin ?
I would love to hear and read from a famous public Christian Evangelist testifying about their own ability to commit no sin when you name them for me ?

Why me? Lol
I normally do not watch tv like that.
My point though was people say they sin less...why can't one say in the like they are sinless...I don't think that is bragging. I just have to be honest here I just don't see that as bragging.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Why me? Lol
I normally do not watch tv like that.
My point though was people say they sin less...why can't one say in the like they are sinless...I don't think that is bragging. I just have to be honest here I just don't see that as bragging.

You just got done saying that telling of one's own eradicating sin completely was done to testify for the benefit of other Christians.
That is exactly what the world's great evangelists do .
How odd then that you can name one in the last 100 years that made such a testimony .
You don't have to have seen them do it on tv .
Why wouldn't a Christian book on the subject of being absolutely sinless have been written in the 100 years
Try google .
It is an entire library at your fingertips.
You don't sound very confident that such a testimony to being totally sinless can be found anywhere in the last 100 years but here on an anonymous forum.

 

[Hopeful 2]

What kind of person goes around saying I never sin ?

The ones who remain in Christ.
The ones trying to be an example to folks walking in darkness.
If men never hear that they can quit sinning, they will not quit sinning.

Is there any clearer sign that a person does sin than when they go around like the Town Crier Saying :
" Now hear ye , hear ye , I never sin !

That would be a poor opening to the lessons of the gospel.

 

[Hopeful 2]

So then among the dozens of famous publicly recognized accepted Christian preacher/evangelists " testifying" to the world on tv & radio who have brought hundreds of thousands of people to Christ in our lifetime it should be easy to name just one of them who has testified that they no longer commit any sin ?
I would love to hear and read from a famous public Christian Evangelist testifying about their own ability to commit no sin when you name them for me ?

Jesus said we can tell the false prophets by their fruit.
If that fruit is sin, we know they are not of God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You just got done saying that telling of one's own eradicating sin completely was done to testify for the benefit of other Christians.
That is exactly what the world's great evangelists do .
How odd then that you can name one in the last 100 years that made such a testimony .
You don't have to have seen them do it on tv .
Why wouldn't a Christian book on the subject of being absolutely sinless have been written in the 100 years
Try google .
It is an entire library at your fingertips.
You don't sound very confident that such a testimony to being totally sinless can be found anywhere in the last 100 years but here on an anonymous forum.

The testimony of the worlds evangelists, is that one can't be freed from service to sin.
They are of the world, and the world hears them.

 

[Corinth77777]

You just got done saying that telling of one's own eradicating sin completely was done to testify for the benefit of other Christians.
That is exactly what the world's great evangelists do .
How odd then that you can name one in the last 100 years that made such a testimony .
You don't have to have seen them do it on tv .
Why wouldn't a Christian book on the subject of being absolutely sinless have been written in the 100 years
Try google .
It is an entire library at your fingertips.
You don't sound very confident that such a testimony to being totally sinless can be found anywhere in the last 100 years but here on an anonymous forum.

None of this was my point. I never said I knew where I stood on the subject of sinless perfection.
My point was if one can say they sin less, why can't one say they are sinless. That's all.

I did not see that as bragging...

But just to play the advocate an answer your questions. There are 3 or 4 books I know on Disciplines Foster, Thurman, Willard and I'm sure many more. It is highly possible that words change meaning over time. It is also possible that many people have taken scriptures out of context and created doctrines where ideals are wrapped in.

I honestly do not watch tv that often to name people. But maybe they are not sinless so they can't make that claim. And maybe they really dont believe Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. Maybe like many they don't believe one can be sinless.

But didn't Wesley preach that, so therefore any Weslyn church would believe such. There are people here like hope2 and Randy that I believe have claimed sinlessness.

Here is a tv Evangelists

Renovation of the Heart by Willard page 226
Most of His books are on Spiritual Formation.

Do you ever wonder why 2 didn't die and were taken up and did not see death.

My thoughts about perfection is it means- telio mature and fully grown. It is Love that fullfills the Law-
We grow as we walk in . I am one that believes what you practice is what you become.

I will never say what God can't do. Moreover He can do more than we can asked or think.

Note: This is how I see perfection below:

*until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Niv Eph 4

That's my thoughts

 

[Consecrated Life]

None of this was my point. I never said I knew where I stood on the subject of sinless perfection.
My point was if one can say they sin less, why can't one say they are sinless. That's all.

I did not see that as bragging...

But just to play the advocate an answer your questions. There are 3 or 4 books I know on Disciplines Foster, Thurman, Willard and I'm sure many more. It is highly possible that words change meaning over time. It is also possible that many people have taken scriptures out of context and created doctrines where ideals are wrapped in.

I honestly do not watch tv that often to name people. But maybe they are not sinless so they can't make that claim. And maybe they really dont believe Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. Maybe like many they don't believe one can be sinless.

There has never been any people who could more legitimately make the claim of being sinless than the Religious leaders of ancient Israel.
They followed God's law to the letter .
You seem to think that a claim of committing no sin is some sort of cutting edge , brand new thing ?
You don't think those devoutly religious Jews believed they were really sinless ?

 

[Corinth77777]

There has never been any people who could more legitimately make the claim of being sinless than the Religious leaders of ancient Israel.

They followed God's law to the letter .
You seem to think that a claim of committing no sin is some sort of cutting edge , brand new thing ?

Oh is that what I think?

You don't think those devoutly religious Jews believed they were really sinless ?

I don't know what they believed.
But I can share Hebrews 7:19

For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

If the Law made nothing perfect, then no one was perfect. Right?

And I also can share: Ezekiel 18:24
"if a righteous person turns away from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it"
Question
Why is this person called righteous????
And how does a man turn from their righteousness?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Oh is that what I think?

I don't know what they believed.
But I can share Hebrews 7:19

For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

If the Law made nothing perfect, then no one was perfect. Right?

If they perfectly obeyed the law that God said they were to obey, & committed no sin, how then were they not perfect ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

There has never been any people who could more legitimately make the claim of being sinless than the Religious leaders of ancient Israel.
They followed God's law to the letter .
You seem to think that a claim of committing no sin is some sort of cutting edge , brand new thing ?
You don't think those devoutly religious Jews believed they were really sinless ?

That is an interesting point.
Without faith in Christ, however, their perfection was by their own doing, and not God's.
And still, they believed one could commit sins they weren't even tempted to do, or accidently, or even without knowledge of having committed.
So kept offering the sacrifices...just in case.

I don't really recall anyone claiming perfection in the time of Christ.
Do you recall someone, or an event, where it came up ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

That is an interesting point.
Without faith in Christ, however, their perfection was by their own doing, and not God's.

This was before the birth of Christ .
The scribes & pharisees Followed the law perfectly because they had faith in God and faith in what God commanded them to obey .

 

[Hopeful 2]

This was before the birth of Christ .
The scribes & pharisees Followed the law perfectly because they had faith in God and faith in what God commanded them to obey .

We don't know that for certain, as I don't recall any of them making that claim.
What we do know though, is that they were men who walked in the flesh, and not in the Spirit: as that option wouldn't be available to man until Jesus was raised from the dead and we could be baptized into Him and into His death and resurrection.
Only the reborn can walk in the Spirit all the time.

Paul did once say he was blameless, in Phil 3:6. But it was within the context of the righteousness within the Law.
There is a righteousness that is better than the Law's righteousness.
Like...pray for your enemy, instead of a tooth for a tooth.

 

[Consecrated Life]

We don't know that for certain, as I don't recall any of them making that claim.
What we do know though, is that they were men who walked in the flesh, and not in the Spirit: as that option wouldn't be available to man until Jesus was raised from the dead and we could be baptized into Him and into His death and resurrection.

So Mr. know it all where is Joshua today ?

 

[Abby-Joy]

Matthew 24:10
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.

Matthew 24:10
[10]And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

 

[GodsGrace]

Matthew 24:10
[10]And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

So you want to base what you believe on ONE WORD in one version of one bible?

That's not a great way.
There are even more versions if this is the way you think you should learn about God and what He expects from us.....
It's not the way I would recommend....


New International Version
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,

New Living Translation
And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other.

English Standard Version
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.

Berean Standard Bible
At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another,

Berean Literal Bible
And then many will fall away, and they will betray one another, and will hate one another;

King James Bible
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

New King James Version
And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.

New American Standard Bible
And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another.

NASB 1995
“At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.

NASB 1977
“And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another.

Legacy Standard Bible
And at that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.

Amplified Bible
At that time many will be offended and repelled [by their association with Me] and will fall away [from the One whom they should trust] and will betray one another [handing over believers to their persecutors] and will hate one another.

Christian Standard Bible
Then many will fall away, betray one another, and hate one another.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Then many will take offense, betray one another and hate one another.

American Standard Version
And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Then many will be subverted, and they will hate one another and will betray one another.

Contemporary English Version
Many will give up and will betray and hate each other.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another.

English Revised Version
And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Then many will lose faith. They will betray and hate each other.

Good News Translation
Many will give up their faith at that time; they will betray one another and hate one another.

International Standard Version
Then many people will fall away, will betray one another, and will hate one another.

Literal Standard Version
and then will many be stumbled, and they will deliver up one another, and will hate one another.

Majority Standard Bible
At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another,

New American Bible
And then many will be led into sin; they will betray and hate one another.

NET Bible
Then many will be led into sin, and they will betray one another and hate one another.

New Revised Standard Version
Then many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another.

New Heart English Bible
Then many will stumble, and will deliver up one another, and will hate one another.

Webster's Bible Translation
And then will many be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another.

Weymouth New Testament
Then will many stumble and fall, and they will betray one another and hate one another.