What does the term "flesh" mean?

[Deborah13]

How do we know. Scripture. To me, the easiest to understand is that God cannot be tempted by evil. Jesus was tempted. And God's word says He was tempted,

He was tempted as a man, but not in the nature of fallen man, the greatest temptations are not to "sin" by the standard that religion has taught, The true temptations are of the heart, faith and love. The Lord was tested and passed the test, because He did not have sin (in the flesh) upon which satan could overcome Him. He had to do it for us, because we are not able. If we will admit we are not able, then our weakness becomes His strength. When we fail to admit the true condition of our flesh, then is when satan can destroy us. This is what Paul said over and over, in weakness we are strong, when we admit the truth about our flesh is when the Spirit of God has power in our lives.

I agree with almost everything you said here, George. All men sin, men are only find to be righteous, in Christ. Christ imputed righteousness. I also agree that we cannot trust our flesh (will). We need to be like Jesus, "Your will, not mine".

I also totally agree with you that Jesus, although He had a human nature, had no sin in the flesh, period.

Adam when he was created with a human nature, didn't either.

But there is a huge difference between them.

 

[Deborah13]

I can't believe this discussion.

That which is born of the flesh is the physical body. We know a lot about the physical body today; a lot more than what was known in Jesus' time. The physical body is mostly water and proteins. Endorphins are proteins produced by the body. When they are released into the body, they bind to receptors in the brain, causing a sense of well being, similar to the effect of morphine. Endorphins are released during sex, laughter, exercise, violence, unrighteous gain, etc. In effect, the physical body, literally, has a desire for sin. The flesh is sinful. And we were slaves to sin before because our physical body held us captive

But then we were born again.

That which is born of the Spirit is the spiritual body. The spiritual body is like the physical body, but instead of pleasure, the desire of the spiritual body is wisdom, knowledge and understanding. If your knowledge is true, the coming fire will refine it like gold and silver. But if your knowledge is false, then it will be tinder for the fire. Your spiritual body will be destroyed and you will lose your soul.

..

PS:

Often sex is indeed sinful, but not necessarily so. I wouldn't link the sin with the body to such an extent that all such activity is sinful. even among married Christians, although it may be said that the energy of the flesh is under sin unless guided by the Spirit of God.

( @Deborah13 : does this seem right to you? You've taken a close interest in this thread.)

farouk, this whole post is so far off from what Paul is referring to as the flesh, there would be no point in addressing one point.

Man is body, soul, and spirit. Paul says this in Thess. and Hebrews.

body = flesh and bones. Yes, the body response to many things, thirst, hunger, etc. but the body cannot sin. The body does not control itself, without a mind.
soul = psyche (GK) mind, thoughts, emotions This is where the problems lie when it comes to sin. Must be renewed by the Word of God and the HSpirit.
spirit =pneuma (Gk) one with the Holy Spirit, from death to life

Paul, does use them interchangeably so context very is important.

The Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts (minds), transforming ugly to pretty, weeds to flowers, crab apples to sweet apples

I was taught this and it seems to be correct by the Word.

 

[farouk]

I can't believe this discussion.

That which is born of the flesh is the physical body. We know a lot about the physical body today; a lot more than what was known in Jesus' time. The physical body is mostly water and proteins. Endorphins are proteins produced by the body. When they are released into the body, they bind to receptors in the brain, causing a sense of well being, similar to the effect of morphine. Endorphins are released during sex, laughter, exercise, violence, unrighteous gain, etc. In effect, the physical body, literally, has a desire for sin. The flesh is sinful. And we were slaves to sin before because our physical body held us captive

But then we were born again.

That which is born of the Spirit is the spiritual body. The spiritual body is like the physical body, but instead of pleasure, the desire of the spiritual body is wisdom, knowledge and understanding. If your knowledge is true, the coming fire will refine it like gold and silver. But if your knowledge is false, then it will be tinder for the fire. Your spiritual body will be destroyed and you will lose your soul.

..

PS:

Often sex is indeed sinful, but not necessarily so. I wouldn't link the sin with the body to such an extent that all such activity is sinful. even among married Christians, although it may be said that the energy of the flesh is under sin unless guided by the Spirit of God.

( @Deborah13 : does this seem right to you? You've taken a close interest in this thread.)

farouk, this whole post is so far off from what Paul is referring to as the flesh, there would be no point in addressing one point.

Man is body, soul, and spirit. Paul says this in Thess. and Hebrews.

body = flesh and bones. Yes, the body response to many things, thirst, hunger, etc. but the body cannot sin. The body does not control itself, without a mind.
soul = psyche (GK) mind, thoughts, emotions This is where the problems lie when it comes to sin. Must be renewed by the Word of God and the HSpirit.
spirit =pneuma (Gk) one with the Holy Spirit, from death to life

Paul, does use them interchangeably so context very is important.

The Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts (minds), transforming ugly to pretty, weeds to flowers, crab apples to sweet apples

I was taught this and it seems to be correct by the Word.

@Deborah13 : Well, okay. Maybe what @MarkT was saying wasn't germane to the main discussion. Fine.

Blessings.

PS: My thought was, as Hebrews says, 'Marriage is honourable in all', etc.

 

[JCitoL]

No they were those who judged others but would not see the sin in themselves. They pretended to hear the law, but would not be honest about its true standard, they where hypocrites and Jesus had no choice but to reject them in their pride.

on the contrary, they were unrighteous exactly because of their judgment:

John 8:3-16 "the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground(viz. in order to remind them about the Ten God's Commandments which the true God wrote by His Own Finger), as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her(viz. can any believer be sinless if violates any of the Ten Commandments of God Himself? - in this case the Commandment is: "thou shalt not kill"). And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground(viz. and He again continued to try to remind them about the Ten God's Commandments which the true Lord God alone wrote on the tables of stone). And they which heard it(i.e. and after they understood what He allude(d)), being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more(viz. and it would be good that you also keep the Ten Commandments). Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life..... Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge(viz. but even if I intervene in the life of some human), my judgment is true(i.e. My intervention is good/favorable and not a bit evil/unfavorable): for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me."

Blessings

 

[MarkT]

I can't believe this discussion.

That which is born of the flesh is the physical body. We know a lot about the physical body today; a lot more than what was known in Jesus' time. The physical body is mostly water and proteins. Endorphins are proteins produced by the body. When they are released into the body, they bind to receptors in the brain, causing a sense of well being, similar to the effect of morphine. Endorphins are released during sex, laughter, exercise, violence, unrighteous gain, etc. In effect, the physical body, literally, has a desire for sin. The flesh is sinful. And we were slaves to sin before because our physical body held us captive

But then we were born again.

That which is born of the Spirit is the spiritual body. The spiritual body is like the physical body, but instead of pleasure, the desire of the spiritual body is wisdom, knowledge and understanding. If your knowledge is true, the coming fire will refine it like gold and silver. But if your knowledge is false, then it will be tinder for the fire. Your spiritual body will be destroyed and you will lose your soul.

..

PS:

Often sex is indeed sinful, but not necessarily so. I wouldn't link the sin with the body to such an extent that all such activity is sinful. even among married Christians, although it may be said that the energy of the flesh is under sin unless guided by the Spirit of God.

( @Deborah13 : does this seem right to you? You've taken a close interest in this thread.)

I wouldn't say sex is sinful.

Paul calls the flesh sinful because it has this desire and the desire leads to sin. The desire of the flesh for pleasure, sex, money, etc. leads to all kinds of sin, licentiousness, lasciviousness, envy, jealousy, covetousness, promiscuity, adultery, rape, homosexual sex, violence, etc.

 

[George Muller]

He was conceived and Born with it. The Fullness.

He was empowered with the anointing of the Holy Spirit at His baptism, and then he began to display His Glory. So then another aspect of who He is was manifest. He was not born with the Holy Spirit as he received at the Jordan river.

He was always empowered with the holy Spirit. Nothing changed for Christ at his baptism. What he was to this world changed at his baptism. It was made known to the Creatures around Him of who and what he was at His baptism, Just like ours. We are Identified with Christ. Christ was Identified to the world as GOD at His baptism.

Great, If you can not see that the anointing came upon the Lord and then be began to fulfill certain aspects of prophecy as the " Messiah" THE ANOITED ONE- THE CHRIST, What the 4 gospel do is reveal Christ in that He was fulfilling 4 lines or "rivers" of prophetic Word.

"Son of man"- Adam, "son of David" -King, The lamb of God, and Son of God. So yes, the anointing that came upon Him was very important to the fulfillment of many things.

 

[George Muller]

How do we know. Scripture. To me, the easiest to understand is that God cannot be tempted by evil. Jesus was tempted. And God's word says He was tempted,

He was tempted as a man, but not in the nature of fallen man, the greatest temptations are not to "sin" by the standard that religion has taught, The true temptations are of the heart, faith and love. The Lord was tested and passed the test, because He did not have sin (in the flesh) upon which satan could overcome Him. He had to do it for us, because we are not able. If we will admit we are not able, then our weakness becomes His strength. When we fail to admit the true condition of our flesh, then is when satan can destroy us. This is what Paul said over and over, in weakness we are strong, when we admit the truth about our flesh is when the Spirit of God has power in our lives.

I agree with almost everything you said here, George. All men sin, men are only find to be righteous, in Christ. Christ imputed righteousness. I also agree that we cannot trust our flesh (will). We need to be like Jesus, "Your will, not mine".

I also totally agree with you that Jesus, although He had a human nature, had no sin in the flesh, period.

Adam when he was created with a human nature, didn't either.

But there is a huge difference between them.

Again Deb this is a bit confusing about your 100% and what you hope to represent by using this ? You seem to want to use absolute terms (which religion loves to impose on others) when in effect it is very hard for us as fallen men, to understand and define these things as it relates to the body of the Lord. I say that these absolute terms leave little room for an honest discussion and attempt to force others into taking positions based upon the pride of mans logic. Its ok to leave room for a discussion of the truth, without forcing others to accept ones own restrictive statements. I would not say 100% man, nor would I use the term "human nature" nor would I say that that The body of the Lord and Adam (before the fall) was different. I can say that the Lord did not have any sin in His flesh, and in that He was much different than us in "nature". But we know He took the form of our flesh, and understands our struggle. So I need no "absolute terms" on a issue in which the scriptures give me a limited understanding.

 

[George Muller]

No they were those who judged others but would not see the sin in themselves. They pretended to hear the law, but would not be honest about its true standard, they where hypocrites and Jesus had no choice but to reject them in their pride.

on the contrary, they were unrighteous exactly because of their judgment:

John 8:3-16 "the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground(viz. in order to remind them about the Ten God's Commandments which the true God wrote by His Own Finger), as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her(viz. can any believer be sinless if violates any of the Ten Commandments of God Himself? - in this case the Commandment is: "thou shalt not kill"). And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground(viz. and He again continued to try to remind them about the Ten God's Commandments which the true Lord God alone wrote on the tables of stone). And they which heard it(i.e. and after they understood what He allude(d)), being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more(viz. and it would be good that you also keep the Ten Commandments). Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life..... Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge(viz. but even if I intervene in the life of some human), my judgment is true(i.e. My intervention is good/favorable and not a bit evil/unfavorable): for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me."

Blessings

Not sure how you think this is contrary to the point I made? And the point of that passage is not that it was not right according to the law, to stone this woman. but that The Lawgiver was Christ Himself and If He does not condemn, no man has right to condemn.

 

[farouk]

This is a good summary, I think:

'God of God,
Light of light,
Lo, He abhors not the virgin's womb,
Verily God,
Begotten, not created,
O come, let us adore Him,
Christ the Lord.'

Blessings.

 

[JCitoL]

Not sure how you think this is contrary to the point I made? And the point of that passage is not that it was not right according to the law, to stone this woman. but that The Lawgiver was Christ Himself and If He does not condemn, no man has right to condemn.

excuse me if i made an incongruous point to your detriment, the true Lord God gives only commandments which are good to all humans as it is in the following verse:

Romans 12:17 "Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men."

all ordinances for harming in the old testament were given because of the callousness of the unrighteous worshippers in those times, not of His Own Will, according as it is said in the following verse:

"For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept."

that is why God by Jesus Christ have annulled all inimical ordinances of the testament:

Matthew 5th chapter "Ye have heard that it hath been said.....(for example: an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth)... But I say unto you.....(for example: that ye resist not evil)",

Mark 7:18-23 "And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats(i.e. making all consumptions clean)? And he said, That which cometh out of the man(i.e. out of the human(666) religious/spiritual activity), that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men(i.e. out of the human(666) religion/spirituality), proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.",

Colossians 2:14-15 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Blessings

 

[George Muller]

excuse me if i made an incongruous point to your detriment, the true Lord God gives only commandments which are good to all humans as it is in the following verse:

Again not sure of your point? or how it relates to the topic of the thread? The law is good if it is used lawfully, but it is not laid upon the righteous.

 

[Deborah13]

These passages are to those who know the law and is not addressing the gentiles as having the ability to "know God" or the ability to understand they are sinners . These scriptures are not speaking of all men, but to those who know the law.

If you remember the original scriptures I posted about were Romans 1:13-32, that ALL men have knowledge of God, even before they are saved. So when they are presented with the Gospel message they can know that they have sinned against God and receive Him. They don't all do that, harden heart is the problem. But all men know there is a God, He has reveled Himself to man, so man is without excuse.
I believe your argument was that Paul was talking to those under the Law of Moses, which is not what verse 13, says. So.....

"
The Bible teaches that every human being who has ever breathed has an intuitive knowledge of the existence of God. It may not be clear, but it’s there. It is possible, however, to deny its existence. You can harden your heart to the point where you no longer feel any conviction or, even further, reach the point of becoming a reprobate, where God actually takes the knowledge of Himself away. An agnostic or an atheist is simply a person who has hardened their heart to that still small voice of God that operates like a homing device. But the Scripture says that inside of every person, there is a God-shaped vacuum.
Romans 1:18-20 says,
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."
If you will really meditate on these verses, you'll learn that you don't have to tell people that God hates their sin. You don't have to tell them that God is holy and they are unholy, worthy of His judgment. The wrath of God has been revealed to every man and woman, and they are without excuse. That is why it's so important to tell people about God's unconditional love and grace. They already feel condemned; they need to know how to get set free."
QUOTE is that of guess who? ANDREW WOMMACK http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/come_from

After seeing your post in the tattoo thread this morning I thought I'd look on Andrew's site to see if he addressed this. It took awhile to find. But as usual Andrew will attack the hard questions. Sometimes he just says, "I don't know". I love this quote below from Andrew, from his teaching on spirit, soul, and body.
" “When it comes to being born again, your soul wasn’t the part of you that completely changed! If you were stupid before you were saved, you’re still stupid after being saved.†(Spirit, Soul, and Body, p.6)

So what does Paul refer to as "flesh" that part of us "soul" that has not been renewed by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. That human nature that can be corrupted and will be. As we mature in the Lord our "stupid" part matures, and "grows in wisdom and stature" in the ways pleasing to God. Can we take credit for any of that? That kind of stinkin, thinkin, will get us no where and we will stay "stupid".

Just my understanding of what Paul is teaching about as "evil in his flesh" our flesh is no different.

 

[George Muller]

If you remember the original scriptures I posted about were Romans 1:13-32, that ALL men have knowledge of God, even before they are saved. So when they are presented with the Gospel message they can know that they have sinned against God and receive Him. They don't all do that, harden heart is the problem. But all men know there is a God, He has reveled Himself to man, so man is without excuse.
I believe your argument was that Paul was talking to those under the Law of Moses, which is not what verse 13, says. So.....

"
The Bible teaches that every human being who has ever breathed has an intuitive knowledge of the existence of God. It may not be clear, but it’s there. It is possible, however, to deny its existence. You can harden your heart to the point where you no longer feel any conviction or, even further, reach the point of becoming a reprobate, where God actually takes the knowledge of Himself away. An agnostic or an atheist is simply a person who has hardened their heart to that still small voice of God that operates like a homing device. But the Scripture says that inside of every person, there is a God-shaped vacuum.
Romans 1:18-20 says,
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."
If you will really meditate on these verses, you'll learn that you don't have to tell people that God hates their sin. You don't have to tell them that God is holy and they are unholy, worthy of His judgment. The wrath of God has been revealed to every man and woman, and they are without excuse. That is why it's so important to tell people about God's unconditional love and grace. They already feel condemned; they need to know how to get set free."
QUOTE is that of guess who? ANDREW WOMMACK http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/come_from

After seeing your post in the tattoo thread this morning I thought I'd look on Andrew's site to see if he addressed this.

Well Deb, I do accept Andrew as one of the great bible teachers of our time, but I believe that the context of these scriptures proves that in fact these scriptures can ONLY BE speaking to those who know the law, if I had the chance to explain this to Andrew I would do so with all boldness and confidence in that the truth is the object between us who seek the truth. Now I believe that the Holy Spirit Himself has taught me the truth of these scriptures, and He must be the teacher in all things. Andrew would be the first to admit that we often look at scripture based upon the traditional teaching of those from who we have learned. He has often been led away from traditional teachings by the Holy Spirit and shown the true intentions of scripture even though others where no in agreement with his understanding. This is not an act of disrespect but this is how the truth of the gospel grows, when those who have the Spirit of wisdom and revelation dare to step away from tradition and dogma, then the riches of Gods grace is revealed. I do not see how one can read the context of these scriptures and with an honest heart, not restricted by mans religion or tradition, agree that the issue here is those who know the law. So I stand in that which God has taught to me, even if those I love and admire, as you and Andrew are, disagree or fail to see. This "intuitive knowledge" of God is not found in these passages, although they could be suggested. The issue in these passages is clearly those who know the law as I have shown already.

Ro 1:32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. (this can ONLY BE THOSE WHO KNOW THE LAW) as was Pauls habit throughout this epistle to speak in terms of those who "know the law"

 

[George Muller]

Here is how Paul describes the condition of the "gentiles"
Eph 2:1 ¶ And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Eph 2:11 ¶ Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands--
12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

 

[Deborah13]

Now I believe that the Holy Spirit Himself has taught me the truth of these scriptures, and He must be the teacher in all things.

This "intuitive knowledge" of God is not found in these passages, although they could be suggested.

I am not saying and I don't read Andrew as saying "intuitive knowledge" that is without God. The scripture says that "God revels Himself". And on top of that any "intuitiveness or consciousness" that man has is because God made him that way, God is man's Creator. So man has no place for pride in any of it. Thus eliminating the "works" of man. Man is only responding to the 'works' of God.


I return your affection as a brother in Christ, who I believe is sincere in his search for the truths of God as I, myself am. Blessings, Deb

 

[farouk]

Now I believe that the Holy Spirit Himself has taught me the truth of these scriptures, and He must be the teacher in all things.

This "intuitive knowledge" of God is not found in these passages, although they could be suggested.

I am not saying and I don't read Andrew as saying "intuitive knowledge" that is without God. The scripture says that "God revels Himself". And on top of that any "intuitiveness or consciousness" that man has is because God made him that way, God is man's Creator. So man has no place for pride in any of it. Thus eliminating the "works" of man. Man is only responding to the 'works' of God.


I return your affection as a brother in Christ, who I believe is sincere in his search for the truths of God as I, myself am. Blessings, Deb

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

Interesting; what do you understand by 'intuitive knowledge'? or maybe it's not your original thought.

Maybe my question is for [MENTION=96503]George Muller[/MENTION].

Blessings.

 

[MarkT]

Many seem to be confused about this biblical term, but what the word represents is the "natural" man, born unto this world. (as the Lord said) For that which is born of the flesh "is Flesh". Now religion has attempted to confuse this by some doctrines that promote a false understanding of the term? Many would claim there is a good part of the natural man (acceptable to God) and then a "sinful nature" in natural man. This is a complete error. "NOTHING GOOD LIVES IN THE FLESH" Until a believer becomes as Paul described as one who has "NO CONFIDENCE IN THE FLESH" and only trust in the Spirit of God, working righteousness through faith and love from the spirit, that believer is what the scriptures call "carnal". They are not "spiritual". For those who are "spiritual" are not looking and judging things according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. This is a mystery and the "mystery of godliness" but one MUST ACCEPT THE CROSS OF CHRIST, AS ONES OWN DEATH, to enter into true Godliness and true holiness.

The flesh is the physical body. The word has the same meaning in the Old Testament and in the New Testament. Our nature, in fact, is flesh and blood. This is as opposed to spirit. God is spirit. We are flesh and blood. That is our nature. Christ partook of our nature. Hebrews 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature

Why is this so confusing? God sent the flood to make an end of all flesh, everything he had made, because the earth was filled with violence through them. God said he would destroy them, meaning all flesh, everything with the breath of life in it. Gen. 6:17

I'm not going to get into this sinful nature business because Jesus said man is evil and no one is good but God alone. I'm just telling you what the word flesh means.

The flesh is the physical body. The physical body has physical desires like sex, money, food, clothing, etc. This is a weakness the devil exploits. It is a weakness of the physical body, our nature being flesh and blood. It's because we are flesh and blood in nature, that we are weak. I told you about endorphines. The devil exploits this weakness and leads us away from God and the teachings of our Master, Jesus Christ, to acquire things, even to ask God for money. Note, having money, you get a feeling of well being, security, etc. Jesus said, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall drink, nor about your body, what you shall put on. The mind that is set on the flesh is set on what you will wear, what you will eat.

Paul bemoans this weakness re. coveting. He doesn't want to, but how can you prevent it? He sees a law at work in his members, his flesh, to covet, even though he knows it is a sin. The flesh has physical desires. The desire of the flesh is well being. Romans 7:15 'I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.' So he sees this warfare going on between the law of God in his inmost self and the law of sin in his flesh. 'Wretched man', he says, 'Who will deliver me from this body of death?' Ro. 7:24

 

[Deborah13]

Many seem to be confused about this biblical term, but what the word represents is the "natural" man, born unto this world. (as the Lord said) For that which is born of the flesh "is Flesh". Now religion has attempted to confuse this by some doctrines that promote a false understanding of the term? Many would claim there is a good part of the natural man (acceptable to God) and then a "sinful nature" in natural man. This is a complete error. "NOTHING GOOD LIVES IN THE FLESH" Until a believer becomes as Paul described as one who has "NO CONFIDENCE IN THE FLESH" and only trust in the Spirit of God, working righteousness through faith and love from the spirit, that believer is what the scriptures call "carnal". They are not "spiritual". For those who are "spiritual" are not looking and judging things according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. This is a mystery and the "mystery of godliness" but one MUST ACCEPT THE CROSS OF CHRIST, AS ONES OWN DEATH, to enter into true Godliness and true holiness.

The flesh is the physical body. The word has the same meaning in the Old Testament and in the New Testament. Our nature, in fact, is flesh and blood. This is as opposed to spirit. God is spirit. We are flesh and blood. That is our nature. Christ partook of our nature. Hebrews 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature

Why is this so confusing? God sent the flood to make an end of all flesh, everything he had made, because the earth was filled with violence through them. God said he would destroy them, meaning all flesh, everything with the breath of life in it. Gen. 6:17

I'm not going to get into this sinful nature business because Jesus said man is evil and no one is good but God alone. I'm just telling you what the word flesh means.

The flesh is the physical body. The physical body has physical desires like sex, money, food, clothing, etc. This is a weakness the devil exploits. It is a weakness of the physical body, our nature being flesh and blood. It's because we are flesh and blood in nature, that we are weak. I told you about endorphines. The devil exploits this weakness and leads us away from God and the teachings of our Master, Jesus Christ, to acquire things, even to ask God for money. Note, having money, you get a feeling of well being, security, etc. Jesus said, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall drink, nor about your body, what you shall put on. The mind that is set on the flesh is set on what you will wear, what you will eat.

Paul bemoans this weakness re. coveting. He doesn't want to, but how can you prevent it? He sees a law at work in his members, his flesh, to covet, even though he knows it is a sin. The flesh has physical desires. The desire of the flesh is well being. Romans 7:15 'I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.' So he sees this warfare going on between the law of God in his inmost self and the law of sin in his flesh. 'Wretched man', he says, 'Who will deliver me from this body of death?' Ro. 7:24

So when you say flesh, you are including the brain/mind that thing we think with and make decisions.

 

[George Muller]

Now I believe that the Holy Spirit Himself has taught me the truth of these scriptures, and He must be the teacher in all things.

This "intuitive knowledge" of God is not found in these passages, although they could be suggested.

I am not saying and I don't read Andrew as saying "intuitive knowledge" that is without God. The scripture says that "God revels Himself". And on top of that any "intuitiveness or consciousness" that man has is because God made him that way, God is man's Creator. So man has no place for pride in any of it. Thus eliminating the "works" of man. Man is only responding to the 'works' of God.


I return your affection as a brother in Christ, who I believe is sincere in his search for the truths of God as I, myself am. Blessings, Deb

Well again Deb the only knowledge of God at the time of the Book of Romans was that had proceeded from the law, and the gospel as Paul and the others had spread the truth to that point. Most of the world where in a state of complete ignorance of the True God.


Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; (The wrath of God, was known through the law, mans unrighteousness was made known through the law. For the purpose of the law was to do this exact thing)
19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.( this could not be the gentiles who had never heard the law or the gospel; that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. )
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, ( Paul says in clear terms that the gentiles DID NOT KNOW GOD)

Ro 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Ro 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.( only those who knew the law, knew the truth and the judgment of God)

Ro 2:1 ¶ Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Ro 2:17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

One could say that Paul makes a condemning case against all men, which is his overall point that all must come to the righteousness of faith, but he speaks in these passages to those who know the Law and his charge is against those who know Gods righteous judgment and attempt to judge others while they themselves are in the same condition. (hold the truth in unrighteousness) can Only be those who have the truth of the law.

This is why the commandment kills, (the letter kills) The commandment is made death unto us because if it is "held in the flesh"- "it is held in unrighteousness".


Ro 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Here is the entire point that Paul is making, he is not in anyway suggesting that any man has the ability to know God, or to serve God apart from the Spirit of God.
and even those who know the law, have no right to judge the gentiles. What religion has done, is turn these passages around in a way as to suggest that some sort of judgment against the flesh of others is justified, when in fact these scriptures condemn us all as being under the judgment, and none are justified in the flesh. That ONLY the righteousness of faith is the answer to the condition of man.

 

[George Muller]

I'm not going to get into this sinful nature business because Jesus said man is evil and no one is good but God alone. I'm just telling you what the word flesh means.

Not sure who you are "telling"? Nor that you are aware that you claim you will not get into this "sinful nature business" and then attempt to tell others about how the flesh acts in its nature (according to your tradition) Yet you make no mention of the Holy Spirit as the solution? nor do you mention the Cross as the place of death for the "flesh"? So please stop trying to lecture others and join the conversation in a Godly way, if you desire to have fellowship and grow in truth?