What does the term "flesh" mean?

[Deborah13]

The problem is this idea that when man is born he is sinful because of Adam's sin. No he is born with the nature of Adam

Sorry George, I said that, and you quoted me in your post. I did not do that on purpose.






Yep, man is born with the nature of Adam, human nature. Before Adam sinned did he have the same human nature before he sinned? It seems to that he was capable of sinning, because HE DID. But Adam was a man and only a man, he was NOT God in the flesh, he had no claim as DEITIY, and neither do we.

Jesus was both. Jesus had two separate natures. Human nature and God's nature.

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

The following are quotes from articles by Matt Slick

This is the union of the two natures (Divine and human) in the person of Jesus. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8).


GOD MAN He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33)He worshiped the Father (John 17)He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5)He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)He is prayed to (Acts 7:59)He prayed to the Father (John 17)He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15)He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)He knows all things (John 21:17)He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)He gives eternal life (John 10:28)He died (Rom. 5:8)All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9)

He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)​

Not sure how you copied a portion of my post to take it out of its context and meaning, but I hope you are proud of your ability to do such things, I am sure the Lord is well pleased with such ability, The Lord did not have "sin in the flesh" as we do, His nature was not that of fallen man, if you choose to promote such things by deception and twisting of the scriptures as you have with my own post, then may God grant you repentance from such things. I can not rebuke you (as I should) for my affection for you and the goodness and love of the truth that I have seen in the past in your post, will not allow me to treat you as the others who do such things. My only recourse seems to be to pray that the sincerity I have witnessed in the past would return to your heart. As far as the discussion of this issue with you, I must reject your ability to be honest on this issue and account that a discussion with you cannot be fruitful.

His nature was not that of fallen man, if you choose to promote such things by deception and twisting of the scriptures

Well George all I can say to you is this. In my previous post, this last post, I quoted scripture from Hebrews and I quote Matt Slick, who I believe is Calvinist in his belief, from what I have been able to discern from much of what he writes.
So George, if I am wrong, that Jesus had two natures, 100% man and 100% God, then most of the Christian body of Christ is wrong, too. I am in good company!

 

[gr8grace]

The Hypostatic union..... In the person of the incarnate Christ are two natures, divine and human, inseparably united without mixture or loss of separate identity, without loss or transfer of properties or attributes, the union being personal and eternal.

Man Carries the sin nature in His seed. In His Humanity Christ was 100% Human, Just as Adam was before his Fall.

 

[Deborah13]

"Man before he sinned did not have a sinful nature, it was his sin that caused the curse. Now man is born with a sinful nature, tainted by sin."

You know what George, I'm glad you have been reading my posts. I just reread something I wrote that was not clear as to what I believe. I don't believe man is born with a "SINFUL" nature. I believe man is born with a "human nature" that is corruptible and man will sin against God.

Without Jesus, the Holy Spirit, in us, we are bound to be lost in sin.

Hebrews 2:18
For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Do you still hold that Christ Jesus had the condition of sin in His flesh as all other men?

George, where did I say the Jesus had the condition of sin in His flesh, as all other men?
Give me the direct quote and post #. Thank you

Jesus was born from the seed of the Holy Spirit

Jesus was the seed of the Father and Genesis says the seed of the woman. Which I gave you that scripture, and through her, the virgin Mary (a very special woman indeed) He was the seed of Abraham.
This says to me, that God has jumped through hoops to get man saved!

Oh and by the way, discussion not about my nature, but about JESUS and Him being 100% man and 100% God. Which I see you do not believe.


.

Deb look into this if you want. God imputed Adams sin to every man. Every man is born condemned. It is a blessing in Disguise. God did it this way so everyone ever born could be an object of salvation.

That way , all Children and people that do not have the mental capacity to believe, Can be imputed with Christs righteousness and Be saved. Gods Justice was satisfied on the Cross for all of our personal sins.

God bless.

I think I agree with everything you said. Actually, I need to go back and find a thread where the story of the prodigal through some light on original sin.

But I think, being born with the original sin from Adam, does not equate to sinful nature. In other words, what changed about Adam from before he sinned to after he sinned. The nature he had before he sinned obviously could sin, so did his nature change after he sinned? I can't find where God ever said this. What did change was his 'knowledge' the 'knowledge of good and evil'. So I guess that is the question, did this knowledge change his nature? Which it may have, pride, covetness? But I think that was the problem to start with? Or maybe it was just the fact that along with being able to sin, he could also be deceived. Oh wait, it was Eve who was deceived, Adam was not.
I hope some others can give insight that I don't have.

 

[Deborah13]

Deb look into this if you want. God imputed Adams sin to every man. Every man is born condemned. It is a blessing in Disguise. God did it this way so everyone ever born could be an object of salvation.

That way , all Children and people that do not have the mental capacity to believe, Can be imputed with Christs righteousness and Be saved. Gods Justice was satisfied on the Cross for all of our personal sins.

God bless.

Yike, it just hit! Sin is passed from father to son. So because The Father was Jesus' father, He could be born sinless. Dah, Dah!!!

Sometimes I wonder, I forget more than I remember!

God Bless you, too.

 

[Deborah13]

"Man before he sinned did not have a sinful nature, it was his sin that caused the curse. Now man is born with a sinful nature, tainted by sin."

You know what George, I'm glad you have been reading my posts. I just reread something I wrote that was not clear as to what I believe. I don't believe man is born with a "SINFUL" nature. I believe man is born with a "human nature" that is corruptible and man will sin against God.

Without Jesus, the Holy Spirit, in us, we are bound to be lost in sin.

Hebrews 2:18
For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Do you still hold that Christ Jesus had the condition of sin in His flesh as all other men?

George, where did I say the Jesus had the condition of sin in His flesh, as all other men?
Give me the direct quote and post #. Thank you

Jesus was born from the seed of the Holy Spirit

Jesus was the seed of the Father and Genesis says the seed of the woman. Which I gave you that scripture, and through her, the virgin Mary (a very special woman indeed) He was the seed of Abraham.
This says to me, that God has jumped through hoops to get man saved!

Oh and by the way, discussion not about my nature, but about JESUS and Him being 100% man and 100% God. Which I see you do not believe.


.

Do you believe that Jesus was 100% the same as Paul describes in Romans 7? You will no doubt say no? Then He was not the same we are in nature, right? So the term 100% man as it relates to the "flesh" is not true right? We have a "flesh" as Paul describes and He has a "flesh" that was without sin, right? Please just answer these simple questions without taking my words out of context.

Do you believe that Jesus was 100% the same as Paul describes in Romans 7? What do you mean by the SAME?
Until you describe what YOU think Paul is saying about human nature, how can I answer these questions? I don't know what you think Paul is saying or why he is saying it.

It's the same as when Paul teaches grace. "should we keep on sinning that grace should abound".
Get my point?

 

[Deborah13]

Deb look into this if you want. God imputed Adams sin to every man

Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Does these scripture imply that "sin" is just "imputed" or is a fact that makes man unable to keep the Commandments of the law? Is this sin that dwelleth in Paul, in all of us?

What is the sin that is in Paul? If you say original sin, then what was the original sin? What did it consist of?

 

[George Muller]

"Man before he sinned did not have a sinful nature, it was his sin that caused the curse. Now man is born with a sinful nature, tainted by sin."

You know what George, I'm glad you have been reading my posts. I just reread something I wrote that was not clear as to what I believe. I don't believe man is born with a "SINFUL" nature. I believe man is born with a "human nature" that is corruptible and man will sin against God.

Without Jesus, the Holy Spirit, in us, we are bound to be lost in sin.

Hebrews 2:18
For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.




George, where did I say the Jesus had the condition of sin in His flesh, as all other men?
Give me the direct quote and post #. Thank you



Jesus was the seed of the Father and Genesis says the seed of the woman. Which I gave you that scripture, and through her, the virgin Mary (a very special woman indeed) He was the seed of Abraham.
This says to me, that God has jumped through hoops to get man saved!

Oh and by the way, discussion not about my nature, but about JESUS and Him being 100% man and 100% God. Which I see you do not believe.


.

Do you believe that Jesus was 100% the same as Paul describes in Romans 7? You will no doubt say no? Then He was not the same we are in nature, right? So the term 100% man as it relates to the "flesh" is not true right? We have a "flesh" as Paul describes and He has a "flesh" that was without sin, right? Please just answer these simple questions without taking my words out of context.

Do you believe that Jesus was 100% the same as Paul describes in Romans 7? What do you mean by the SAME?
Until you describe what YOU think Paul is saying about human nature, how can I answer these questions? I don't know what you think Paul is saying or why he is saying it.

It's the same as when Paul teaches grace. "should we keep on sinning that grace should abound".
Get my point?

well what does 100% mean if your in a conversation about the term "flesh"? 100% implies that there is no difference, am I right? I believe exactly what Paul says in true in him is true in every person born of a woman, save the Lord Himself.
So the reason this issue is of the most importance is because until a believer comes to this truth, they will never be able to understand the gospel and the Cross as they should.

 

[gr8grace]

"Man before he sinned did not have a sinful nature, it was his sin that caused the curse. Now man is born with a sinful nature, tainted by sin."

You know what George, I'm glad you have been reading my posts. I just reread something I wrote that was not clear as to what I believe. I don't believe man is born with a "SINFUL" nature. I believe man is born with a "human nature" that is corruptible and man will sin against God.

Without Jesus, the Holy Spirit, in us, we are bound to be lost in sin.

Hebrews 2:18
For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.




George, where did I say the Jesus had the condition of sin in His flesh, as all other men?
Give me the direct quote and post #. Thank you



Jesus was the seed of the Father and Genesis says the seed of the woman. Which I gave you that scripture, and through her, the virgin Mary (a very special woman indeed) He was the seed of Abraham.
This says to me, that God has jumped through hoops to get man saved!

Oh and by the way, discussion not about my nature, but about JESUS and Him being 100% man and 100% God. Which I see you do not believe.


.

Deb look into this if you want. God imputed Adams sin to every man. Every man is born condemned. It is a blessing in Disguise. God did it this way so everyone ever born could be an object of salvation.

That way , all Children and people that do not have the mental capacity to believe, Can be imputed with Christs righteousness and Be saved. Gods Justice was satisfied on the Cross for all of our personal sins.

God bless.

I think I agree with everything you said. Actually, I need to go back and find a thread where the story of the prodigal through some light on original sin.

But I think, being born with the original sin from Adam, does not equate to sinful nature. In other words, what changed about Adam from before he sinned to after he sinned. The nature he had before he sinned obviously could sin, so did his nature change after he sinned? I can't find where God ever said this. What did change was his 'knowledge' the 'knowledge of good and evil'. So I guess that is the question, did this knowledge change his nature? Which it may have, pride, covetness? But I think that was the problem to start with? Or maybe it was just the fact that along with being able to sin, he could also be deceived. Oh wait, it was Eve who was deceived, Adam was not.
I hope some others can give insight that I don't have.

What changed about his nature? Adam Died spiritually. He no longer had a intimate personal relationship with the Lord.

That relationship was gone and the freewill that Adam and eve had always had a tendency for Sin Now.

Dying spiritually changed Adams Nature.

Gen 2:17~~There are actually 2 Deaths in the original language......Dying you shall surely die. The first death is Adams Spiritual death the moment he ate, the second is his eventual physical death that he ushered into this world.

 

[George Muller]

Deb look into this if you want. God imputed Adams sin to every man

Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Does these scripture imply that "sin" is just "imputed" or is a fact that makes man unable to keep the Commandments of the law? Is this sin that dwelleth in Paul, in all of us?

What is the sin that is in Paul? If you say original sin, then what was the original sin? What did it consist of?

Well the whole flesh is sin, and Paul is not describing a action of sin, but a condition of sin that is the flesh. "The sin that dwelleth in me" Sin is not a verb but a noun and the noun "sin" is the fountain of all "sin" the verb. Until one understands the fountain they will not be able to crucify that SIN-noun.

 

[Deborah13]

"Man before he sinned did not have a sinful nature, it was his sin that caused the curse. Now man is born with a sinful nature, tainted by sin."

You know what George, I'm glad you have been reading my posts. I just reread something I wrote that was not clear as to what I believe. I don't believe man is born with a "SINFUL" nature. I believe man is born with a "human nature" that is corruptible and man will sin against God.

Without Jesus, the Holy Spirit, in us, we are bound to be lost in sin.

Hebrews 2:18
For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.




George, where did I say the Jesus had the condition of sin in His flesh, as all other men?
Give me the direct quote and post #. Thank you



Jesus was the seed of the Father and Genesis says the seed of the woman. Which I gave you that scripture, and through her, the virgin Mary (a very special woman indeed) He was the seed of Abraham.
This says to me, that God has jumped through hoops to get man saved!

Oh and by the way, discussion not about my nature, but about JESUS and Him being 100% man and 100% God. Which I see you do not believe.


.

Deb look into this if you want. God imputed Adams sin to every man. Every man is born condemned. It is a blessing in Disguise. God did it this way so everyone ever born could be an object of salvation.

That way , all Children and people that do not have the mental capacity to believe, Can be imputed with Christs righteousness and Be saved. Gods Justice was satisfied on the Cross for all of our personal sins.

God bless.

I think I agree with everything you said. Actually, I need to go back and find a thread where the story of the prodigal through some light on original sin.

But I think, being born with the original sin from Adam, does not equate to sinful nature. In other words, what changed about Adam from before he sinned to after he sinned. The nature he had before he sinned obviously could sin, so did his nature change after he sinned? I can't find where God ever said this. What did change was his 'knowledge' the 'knowledge of good and evil'. So I guess that is the question, did this knowledge change his nature? Which it may have, pride, covetness? But I think that was the problem to start with? Or maybe it was just the fact that along with being able to sin, he could also be deceived. Oh wait, it was Eve who was deceived, Adam was not.
I hope some others can give insight that I don't have.

What changed about his nature? Adam Died spiritually. He no longer had a intimate personal relationship with the Lord.

That relationship was gone and the freewill that Adam and eve had always had a tendency for Sin Now.

Dying spiritually changed Adams Nature.

Gen 2:17~~There are actually 2 Deaths in the original language......Dying you shall surely die. The first death is Adams Spiritual death the moment he ate, the second is his eventual physical death that he ushered into this world.

Yes. We are spiritually dead before Jesus saves us. Until His Holy Spirit indwells us.
Jesus, was not spiritually dead. He had the very fullness of the Spirit indwelling Him, as well as the nature of God.
When do you think He received the fullness of the Holy Spirit, was He born with it or was it when He was baptisted?
Thanks gr8grace.

 

[Deborah13]

Deb look into this if you want. God imputed Adams sin to every man

Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Does these scripture imply that "sin" is just "imputed" or is a fact that makes man unable to keep the Commandments of the law? Is this sin that dwelleth in Paul, in all of us?

What is the sin that is in Paul? If you say original sin, then what was the original sin? What did it consist of?

Well the whole flesh is sin, and Paul is not describing a action of sin, but a condition of sin that is the flesh. "The sin that dwelleth in me" Sin is not a verb but a noun and the noun "sin" is the fountain of all "sin" the verb. Until one understands the fountain they will not be able to crucify that SIN-noun.

Thank you George for the direct answer. No Jesus was not born with any corruption in His flesh. I said this before. The Father was His father. No sin passed on there.
But He had a human nature. How do we know. Scripture. To me, the easiest to understand is that God cannot be tempted by evil. Jesus was tempted. And God's word says He was tempted, in all the same ways we are.

 

[JCitoL]

Its all mans sin, not just this group or that group, its hatred and selfishness, its the lie in every mans heart and mouth. See the purpose of the 10 Commandments is so that ALL OF US would see that we are in this fallen and sinful condition. The fact that some point to the sin and error in others and seem unwilling or unable to see their own condition, proves one is still under the power and deception of that tree. None are righteous "no not one" all have sinned and fallen short of Gods Glory. See the first Adam walked in the glory of God, and was covered and clothed in that glory, it was this forbidden knowledge from this tree that brought man into the condition of sin, and in the eyes of the Lord, we are all the same in this respect. Those who think they are better than others, or those who point to the fault in the flesh of others are always the very worst of sinners themselves, these are those that Christ called "vipers" and children of the devil. For they are worse than the harlot who can admit her sin and need for grace.

those that Jesus Christ called "vipers" were exactly the theologians/clerics of the human(666) religion/spirituality (although the then scribes and pharisees), because exactly they are those that commit spiritual/religious iniquity, for only some spiritual workers/servants can do it, to whom Jesus Christ said: "woe unto you..." except only to the scribes and pharisees?!, He did never say this to the gentiles, harlots, and publicans, but even said to the spiritual/religious violators/offenders: "Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you."(Matthew 21:31)

John 9:39-41 "And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see(i.e. so that those who are physically blind to see); and that they which see might be made blind(i.e. and those who see spiritually to lose their occult sight). And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind(i.e. if you were occultly blind), ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see(i.e. we see/know God and His things); therefore your sin remaineth."

but why must we accuse the humans at all instead of working for their eternal salvation and life's provision in the true God and Jesus?!

Blessings

 

[gr8grace]

I think I agree with everything you said. Actually, I need to go back and find a thread where the story of the prodigal through some light on original sin.

But I think, being born with the original sin from Adam, does not equate to sinful nature. In other words, what changed about Adam from before he sinned to after he sinned. The nature he had before he sinned obviously could sin, so did his nature change after he sinned? I can't find where God ever said this. What did change was his 'knowledge' the 'knowledge of good and evil'. So I guess that is the question, did this knowledge change his nature? Which it may have, pride, covetness? But I think that was the problem to start with? Or maybe it was just the fact that along with being able to sin, he could also be deceived. Oh wait, it was Eve who was deceived, Adam was not.
I hope some others can give insight that I don't have.

What changed about his nature? Adam Died spiritually. He no longer had a intimate personal relationship with the Lord.

That relationship was gone and the freewill that Adam and eve had always had a tendency for Sin Now.

Dying spiritually changed Adams Nature.

Gen 2:17~~There are actually 2 Deaths in the original language......Dying you shall surely die. The first death is Adams Spiritual death the moment he ate, the second is his eventual physical death that he ushered into this world.

Yes. We are spiritually dead before Jesus saves us. Until His Holy Spirit indwells us.
Jesus, was not spiritually dead. He had the very fullness of the Spirit indwelling Him, as well as the nature of God.
When do you think He received the fullness of the Holy Spirit, was He born with it or was it when He was baptisted?
Thanks gr8grace.

He was conceived and Born with it. The Fullness.

Just like we are the moment we are born again. We have everything we need at the moment we believe. We just have no clue how to utilize all that fullness, it is there none the less though.

edit: this could be read wrong. We have no deity or powers of deity. We have everything we need to accomplish Gods plan for our lives at the moment we believe. We have the fullness of the Spirit the moment we believe for everything God has planned for our lives.

 

[George Muller]

He was conceived and Born with it. The Fullness.

He was empowered with the anointing of the Holy Spirit at His baptism, and then he began to display His Glory. So then another aspect of who He is was manifest. He was not born with the Holy Spirit as he received at the Jordan river.

 

[George Muller]

those that Jesus Christ called "vipers" were exactly the theologians/

No they were those who judged others but would not see the sin in themselves. They pretended to hear the law, but would not be honest about its true standard, they where hypocrites and Jesus had no choice but to reject them in their pride.

 

[George Muller]

How do we know. Scripture. To me, the easiest to understand is that God cannot be tempted by evil. Jesus was tempted. And God's word says He was tempted,

He was tempted as a man, but not in the nature of fallen man, the greatest temptations are not to "sin" by the standard that religion has taught, The true temptations are of the heart, faith and love. The Lord was tested and passed the test, because He did not have sin (in the flesh) upon which satan could overcome Him. He had to do it for us, because we are not able. If we will admit we are not able, then our weakness becomes His strength. When we fail to admit the true condition of our flesh, then is when satan can destroy us. This is what Paul said over and over, in weakness we are strong, when we admit the truth about our flesh is when the Spirit of God has power in our lives.

 

[MarkT]

I can't believe this discussion.

That which is born of the flesh is the physical body. We know a lot about the physical body today; a lot more than what was known in Jesus' time. The physical body is mostly water and proteins. Endorphins are proteins produced by the body. When they are released into the body, they bind to receptors in the brain, causing a sense of well being, similar to the effect of morphine. Endorphins are released during sex, laughter, exercise, violence, unrighteous gain, etc. In effect, the physical body, literally, has a desire for sin. The flesh is sinful. And we were slaves to sin before because our physical body held us captive

But then we were born again.

That which is born of the Spirit is the spiritual body. The spiritual body is like the physical body, but instead of pleasure, the desire of the spiritual body is wisdom, knowledge and understanding. If your knowledge is true, the coming fire will refine it like gold and silver. But if your knowledge is false, then it will be tinder for the fire. Your spiritual body will be destroyed and you will lose your soul.

The Trinity, the Nicene Creed, hypostatic union, etc. - all tinder.

The state of the church today - nearly dead, spiritual speaking. No one cares, no one listens, all are false. No one has any understanding. This is why the Lord must return soon. God must end the tribulation sooner or no human being will be saved.

 

[gr8grace]

He was conceived and Born with it. The Fullness.

He was empowered with the anointing of the Holy Spirit at His baptism, and then he began to display His Glory. So then another aspect of who He is was manifest. He was not born with the Holy Spirit as he received at the Jordan river.

He was always empowered with the holy Spirit. Nothing changed for Christ at his baptism. What he was to this world changed at his baptism. It was made known to the Creatures around Him of who and what he was at His baptism, Just like ours. We are Identified with Christ. Christ was Identified to the world as GOD at His baptism.

 

[farouk]

I can't believe this discussion.

That which is born of the flesh is the physical body. We know a lot about the physical body today; a lot more than what was known in Jesus' time. The physical body is mostly water and proteins. Endorphins are proteins produced by the body. When they are released into the body, they bind to receptors in the brain, causing a sense of well being, similar to the effect of morphine. Endorphins are released during sex, laughter, exercise, violence, unrighteous gain, etc. In effect, the physical body, literally, has a desire for sin. The flesh is sinful. And we were slaves to sin before because our physical body held us captive

But then we were born again.

That which is born of the Spirit is the spiritual body. The spiritual body is like the physical body, but instead of pleasure, the desire of the spiritual body is wisdom, knowledge and understanding. If your knowledge is true, the coming fire will refine it like gold and silver. But if your knowledge is false, then it will be tinder for the fire. Your spiritual body will be destroyed and you will lose your soul.

The Trinity, the Nicene Creed, hypostatic union, etc. - all tinder.

The state of the church today - nearly dead, spiritual speaking. No one cares, no one listens, all are false. No one has any understanding. This is why the Lord must return soon. God must end the tribulation sooner or no human being will be saved.

Actually it's the Rapture next (1 Thess. 4). The Great Tribulation (Matthew 24) hasn't happened yet; the tribulation principle is with us, though, but the Lord Jesus has overcome the world.

 

[farouk]

I can't believe this discussion.

That which is born of the flesh is the physical body. We know a lot about the physical body today; a lot more than what was known in Jesus' time. The physical body is mostly water and proteins. Endorphins are proteins produced by the body. When they are released into the body, they bind to receptors in the brain, causing a sense of well being, similar to the effect of morphine. Endorphins are released during sex, laughter, exercise, violence, unrighteous gain, etc. In effect, the physical body, literally, has a desire for sin. The flesh is sinful. And we were slaves to sin before because our physical body held us captive

But then we were born again.

That which is born of the Spirit is the spiritual body. The spiritual body is like the physical body, but instead of pleasure, the desire of the spiritual body is wisdom, knowledge and understanding. If your knowledge is true, the coming fire will refine it like gold and silver. But if your knowledge is false, then it will be tinder for the fire. Your spiritual body will be destroyed and you will lose your soul.

..

PS:

Often sex is indeed sinful, but not necessarily so. I wouldn't link the sin with the body to such an extent that all such activity is sinful. even among married Christians, although it may be said that the energy of the flesh is under sin unless guided by the Spirit of God.

( @Deborah13 : does this seem right to you? You've taken a close interest in this thread.)