What does the Word say about the Law of YHWH which, in reality, is the Law of Moses?

[YosefHayim]

Sorry if you alreadyanswered this question, but with keeping sabbath, do you have to do it a certain way? Are we to simply relax and habe fun? I need to read through the OT again. But I remember, or maybe just heard, that lighting fire is a violation of sabbatn.

 

[JLB]

Sorry if you alreadyanswered this question, but with keeping sabbath, do you have to do it a certain way? Are we to simply relax and habe fun? I need to read through the OT again. But I remember, or maybe just heard, that lighting fire is a violation of sabbatn.

32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.
33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation.
34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
35 Then the Lord said to Moses, "The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp."
36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36

 

[YosefHayim]

32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.
33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation.
34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
35 Then the Lord said to Moses, "The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp."
36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36

The verses beforehand are key to understanding this one
28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the Lord, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

31 Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/presumptuous.html

 

[jocor]

He descended down into the heart of the earth, from the Tomb, [not from heaven], where He was laid to rest for three days and three nights.

Clearly, the place He descended down from was earth, not from heaven, as it says...He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth.

Afterward, that is to say, after He descended down into the lower parts of the earth, then He ascended "far above all the heavens" from the lower depths of the earth.

That is the scriptural order.

8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
Ephesians 4:8-10

"Ascended on high" means he went up to heaven. "Descended into the lower parts of the earth" means he came down from heaven to the earth. The "lower parts of the earth," in Psalm 139:15, refers to David.

Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.​

Either "lowest parts of the earth" refers to David's mother's womb or it refers to the surface of the earth where David's mother was when she conceived him.

The "Scriptural order" has him descending from heaven first.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.​

 

[jocor]

I am saying that Samuel was ascended up from the heart of the earth, which is called Abraham's Bosom, and Paradise, in order to speak to Saul, and to teach us about "life' after death.

Samuel didn't go to heaven until after Jesus was raised from the dead.

for it is written -

No one comes to the Father except through Me.


JLB

How come Samuel went to heaven, but David didn't?

Acts 2:34a For David is not ascended into the heavens: ...​

 

[jocor]

Sorry if you alreadyanswered this question, but with keeping sabbath, do you have to do it a certain way? Are we to simply relax and habe fun? I need to read through the OT again. But I remember, or maybe just heard, that lighting fire is a violation of sabbatn.

The primary emphasis is on resting the body after six days of work (Ex 20:8-11). I, personally, do not "simply relax and have fun." I spend time in prayer, Bible study, fellowship, worship, ministry work, etc.

There are certain clear prohibitions on Sabbath such as not kindling a fire (Ex 35:3). I believe Isaiah 58:13-14 lay out other guidelines for keeping the day holy.

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of YHWH, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in YHWH; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of YHWH hath spoken it.​

 

[JLB]

"Ascended on high" means he went up to heaven. "Descended into the lower parts of the earth" means he came down from heaven to the earth. The "lower parts of the earth," in Psalm 139:15, refers to David.

Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.​

Either "lowest parts of the earth" refers to David's mother's womb or it refers to the surface of the earth where David's mother was when she conceived him.

The "Scriptural order" has him descending from heaven first.

He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth.

Before He ascended into heaven, He first descended into the lower parts of the earth.

That is what the scripture says in black and white.

(Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?

That is the scriptural order.

These verses are a reference to what happened after the cross, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ--
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:8-16


He first descended...

as it is written -

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40

The Lord descended down into the heart of the earth for three days and three nights after He was crucified on the cross.


JLB

 

[JLB]

How come Samuel went to heaven, but David didn't?

Acts 2:34a For David is not ascended into the heavens: ...​

All those OT saints who were preserved alive in the heart of the earth before Jesus paid the price for their sins on the cross, went to heaven when Jesus descend down there and led them out into heaven.

He is the way for all to come to heaven; to God the Father.

He is the way the truth and the life, for all; For David and Samuel, as well as you and I.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I also know it is a sin to commit adultery, idolatry, thefts, etc. Does that mean I am seeking to be justified or made righteous by not doing those things? Yeshua taught men to "sin no more" (john 5:14; 8:11). I choose to obey him and sin (transgress the law) no more, not because it makes me righteous (my righteousness comes through faith), but because it is the right thing to do.

This is exactly why I now leave law keepers alone. For far too long we Protestants have decided for them that what they feel in their heart is the obedience required of faith is really them trying to be justified by works, while what we feel in our hearts is the required obedience of faith isn't. I'm done condemning law keepers. God bless you all.

 

[jocor]

JLB,

Why do you just keep repeating yourself over and over again instead of addressing the verses I present? Instead of addressings Acts 2:34a, you just blatantly contradict it and totally ignore Psalm 139:15.

 

[YosefHayim]

The primary emphasis is on resting the body after six days of work (Ex 20:8-11). I, personally, do not "simply relax and have fun." I spend time in prayer, Bible study, fellowship, worship, ministry work, etc.

There are certain clear prohibitions on Sabbath such as not kindling a fire (Ex 35:3). I believe Isaiah 58:13-14 lay out other guidelines for keeping the day holy.

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of YHWH, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in YHWH; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of YHWH hath spoken it.​

But why ministry work if you're not supposed to do work? I've also wondered this about Sunday church worship.

 

[JLB]

But why ministry work if you're not supposed to do work?

EXACTLY!!!

 

[JLB]

JLB,

Why do you just keep repeating yourself over and over again instead of addressing the verses I present? Instead of addressings Acts 2:34a, you just blatantly contradict it and totally ignore Psalm 139:15.

It appears you don't understand that the OT saints were alive in the heart of the earth, in Paradise, which is also called Abraham's Bosom, until Jesus descended down from the tomb into the heart of the earth.

At the time David wrote this in the Psalms, he had not ascended into heaven.

This does not mean he didn't go to heaven when Jesus was raised from the dead, along with Abraham.

32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,
Acts 2:32-34

David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,

David speaks prophetically, referring to Jesus being exalted to God's right hand.


JLB

 

[JLB]

This is exactly why I now leave law keepers alone. For far too long we Protestants have decided for them that what they feel in their heart is the obedience required of faith is really them trying to be justified by works, while what we feel in our hearts is the required obedience of faith isn't. I'm done condemning law keepers. God bless you all.

Do you believe we are to keep the Sabbath as the law of Moses requires?


JLB

 

[jocor]

But why ministry work if you're not supposed to do work? I've also wondered this about Sunday church worship.

In John 5:1-9, Yeshua healed a man on the Sabbath Day. He then said in John 5:17, "...My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."
He was referring to his work of healing which teaches us that healing is not forbidden work on Sabbath. Had Yahweh truly forbidden healing on the Sabbath, Yeshua would have sinned. Since he was sinless, it proves healing on the Sabbath was not a sin. It was a work of his ministry. Praying for others on Sabbath is not forbidden either. Neither is witnessing, preaching the Gospel, visiting the sick and imprisoned, etc.

 

[jocor]

It appears you don't understand that the OT saints were alive in the heart of the earth, in Paradise, which is also called Abraham's Bosom, until Jesus descended down from the tomb into the heart of the earth.

It is not that I don't understand that. It is that I do not believe that. Lazarus and the Rich Man is a parable, not reality.

At the time David wrote this in the Psalms, he had not ascended into heaven.

This does not mean he didn't go to heaven when Jesus was raised from the dead, along with Abraham.

32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,
Acts 2:32-34

David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,

David speaks prophetically, referring to Jesus being exalted to God's right hand.


JLB

Yes, in Acts 2:34b, David is speaking prophetically, but in Acts 2:34a, Peter is speaking literally to prove Psalm 16:10 is not referring to David. David was not raised up out of the grave, but Yeshua was (Acts 2:31).

 

[JLB]

It is not that I don't understand that. It is that I do not believe that. Lazarus and the Rich Man is a parable, not reality.

So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. Luke 16:22

Jesus plainly said that the beggar, Lazarus died, and was carried by angels to Abraham's Bosom.

Why would Jesus say such a thing if it wasn't the truth?

Jesus goes on to describe a specific conversation between Abraham, the rich man and Lazarus.

Those words are recorded in the bible, as scripture.


Why would Jesus say that Abraham said these words? -
Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

I believe Abraham said these words to the rich man who was being tormented in the flame down in the heart of the earth.



JLB

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

jocor Hello,

((Mammon meanswealth.)) Actually here you are not correct.....When the witten word of God speaks of Mammon it is talking about the worldy system or another words the babylonian way which is the current world system.
Wealth is NOT ever forbiden or talked as being wrong in the written word of God.
When scripture says You can not serve both mammon and God..... It is once again referring to serving the world system where you meet your own needs and place getting your piece of the pie as the most bigest thing in your life with out God.
Have a very blessed day
jim

 

[JLB]

In John 5:1-9, Yeshua healed a man on the Sabbath Day. He then said in John 5:17, "...My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."
He was referring to his work of healing which teaches us that healing is not forbidden work on Sabbath. Had Yahweh truly forbidden healing on the Sabbath, Yeshua would have sinned. Since he was sinless, it proves healing on the Sabbath was not a sin. It was a work of his ministry. Praying for others on Sabbath is not forbidden either. Neither is witnessing, preaching the Gospel, visiting the sick and imprisoned, etc.

Jesus is YHWH.

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Titus 2:11-13

... appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you believe we are to keep the Sabbath as the law of Moses requires?

JLB

No.

But more importantly, what I believe is that jocor has every spiritual right and privilege to keep a literal Mosaic Sabbath. My conscience about whether or not literal Mosaic Sabbath keeping is an expected and obligatory obedience of faith, like 'do not murder' is, does not govern what he believes and does about the matter. That is between him and God, just as what I have determined about it is between me and God.

4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4 NASB)