What does the Word say about the Law of YHWH which, in reality, is the Law of Moses?

[JLB]

If jocor believes by conscience that the literal Sabbath and it's punishment is still binding then he's doing right in regard to the Sabbath and the death penalty.

Couldn't be further from the truth!

The New Testament law of Christ has changed the law of Moses.

People conscience don't dictate to God what laws govern His kingdom.

If jocor decided to put to death people for not keeping the literal Sabbath requirements according to the law of Moses, then he would be considered a murderer in the site of God, as well as the authorities.

If someone wants to observe the Sabbath and rest from their labors because it is set aside by God as a day of rest, then that is certainly up to them.

However, the law of Moses dictates strict adherence down to the jot and tittle, or be put to death.

The law of Moses is an obsolete covenant that has vanished away, and does not govern the people of God.

It's no longer a sin to gather sticks on Saturday, as well as eat pork or shrimp.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

The Holy Spirit does not lead people to do the works of the law.


JLB

 

[JLB]

He was in the grave, but not in literal flames of fire. Fire is a symbol for Yahweh's anger and judgment (Psalm 89:46; Isaiah 66:15; Lam 2:4; Ezekiel 21:31 ; 22:31). The Pharisees knew this well which is why Yeshua chose it. The rich man was suffering the anger and final judgment of Yahweh.

There is certainly fire in hell.


The final Judgment of Jesus is being sentenced to the everlasting fires of hell.

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:41


JLB

 

[JLB]

Probably the number one thing you (Edit: might) learn from them if you start honestly listening with a teachable spirit is the fundamental truth that law keeping is not forbidden for any and all reasons as most of the Protestant church teaches. It is forbidden when it is done for the purpose of trying to be made righteous. We perhaps see this most clearly in this passage:

I have listened to plenty of Messianics, and have studied God's word.

I teach people that the ten Commandments are for us to follow today.

The sabbath was God's law long before Moses was born.

Man needs to rest one day a week.

However, those who believe in Christ do enter that rest. Hebrews 4:3


JLB

 

[JLB]

Most of the Protestant church teaches that faith did nullify the law.

God Himself declared the law of Moses to be Obsolete. Hebrews 8:13

 

[jocor]

There is certainly fire in hell.


The final Judgment of Jesus is being sentenced to the everlasting fires of hell.

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:41


JLB

You are referring to Gehenna or the Lake of Fire. I agree there is fire there. There is no fire in hades which is the word used in Luke 16:23. It simply means the grave.

 

[JLB]

You are referring to Gehenna or the Lake of Fire. I agree there is fire there. There is no fire in hades which is the word used in Luke 16:23. It simply means the grave.

You simply have denied what the truth of the scriptures say -

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said , Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke 16:23-24



Back to the topic!


JLB

 

[jocor]

You simply have denied what the truth of the scriptures say -

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said , Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke 16:23-24



Back to the topic!


JLB

The only thing I deny is your false interpretation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God Himself declared the law of Moses to be Obsolete. Hebrews 8:13

I said faith in Christ does not nullify the law.

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be!" (Romans 3:31 NASB)

It's impossible to argue the point. Impossible. But the Protestant church, in general, teaches that the law was nullified by faith in Christ in direct contradiction to Paul. Most simply do not know what it means for the law to not be nullified, yet the law not have to be kept to the letter. I submit to you that jocor, even though I don't agree with his conclusion, understands it better than 99% of Protestants. We can learn from him.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Couldn't be further from the truth!

The New Testament law of Christ has changed the law of Moses.

People conscience don't dictate to God what laws govern His kingdom.

You are so wrong. Paul explains for us how the person who thinks something is sinful for them it is sinful. But you want to say that's not true?

"...but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean." (Romans 14:14 NASB)

If jocor decided to put to death people for not keeping the literal Sabbath requirements according to the law of Moses, then he would be considered a murderer in the site of God, as well as the authorities.

I agree the authorities will charge him as a murderer. But what he would be in the site of God is a hypocrite! Because even jocor will tell you himself he has failed the Sabbath command in some way at some time. For him to put someone to death for a Sabbath failure is to put himself to death for his own Sabbath failures. It's not that God is judging people according to the literal law of Sabbath. It's that God is indeed judging each one of us according to what we think is sin and how we judge others.

 

[JLB]

I said faith in Christ does not nullify the law.

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be!" (Romans 3:31 NASB)

It's impossible to argue the point. Impossible. But the Protestant church, in general, teaches that the law was nullified by faith in Christ in direct contradiction to Paul. Most simply do not know what it means for the law to not be nullified, yet the law not have to be kept to the letter. I submit to you that jocor, even though I don't agree with his conclusion, understands it better than 99% of Protestants. We can learn from him.

Yes, the God imprinted law that is written on our heart!

 

[JLB]

You are so wrong. Paul explains for us how the person who thinks something is sinful for them it is sinful. But you want to say that's not true?

"...but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean." (Romans 14:14 NASB)

Does this person who is lacking faith about his food, dictate to God what His law is to be?

Never!

It means the person has not the faith to believe God, who has purified all foods.

But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
Romans 14:23


JLB

 

[JLB]

I agree the authorities will charge him as a murderer.

No doubt!.

Is the law of the Lord, the law of Moses.

The law of the Lord Jesus Christ does not require physical Circumcision.

The law of Moses does.

There the law of the Lord Jesus Christ is not the same as the law of Moses.

...for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:14

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

Not under the law!

A direct statement that needs no interpretation.


JLB

 

[JLB]

But the Protestant church, in general, teaches that the law was nullified by faith in Christ in direct contradiction to Paul.

I have never in my life ever heard any Protestant Minister make this claim.

Unless you have proof of this, it would be wise not say such things.

Even if you were to find one or two that say this, that certainly doesn't mean that "protestant ministers" in general teach this.

Maybe if you attended a Catholic Church for a while, you might learn something from them.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The law of the Lord Jesus Christ does not require physical Circumcision.

The law of Moses does.

The law of Moses as a literal COVENANT is what requires literal circumcision. We have been released from the law of Moses as a literal COVENANT, not from the righteous requirements themselves in the law of Moses. They get upheld, not nullified in this New Covenant. The requirement to be circumcised still stands and has not been nullified by faith in Christ. In fact, having faith in Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit is exactly the circumcision that upholds, not nullifies the law of Moses.

"16 "So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer." (Deuteronomy 10:16 NASB) (GASP! That's in the law??)

"...in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ..." (Colossians 2:11 NASB)

 

[JLB]

The law of Moses as a literal COVENANT is what requires literal circumcision.

Yes sir.

That is the ONLY law of Moses there ever was.

We are in the New Covenant, not some "new" law of Moses.

JLB

 

[JLB]

not from the righteous requirements themselves in the law of Moses.

The righteous requirements of God's law are written on our heart.


JLB

 

[JLB]

They get upheld, not nullified in this New Covenant.

I don't know of anyone who has ever said the righteous requirements of the law are nullified.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The requirement to be circumcised still stands and has not been nullified by faith in Christ.

The requirement to be physically circumcised as the law of Moses mandates is not a New Testament Commandment.


JLB

 

[JLB]

"16 "So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer." (Deuteronomy 10:16 NASB) (GASP! That's in the law??)

"...in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ..." (Colossians 2:11 NASB)

So there you have it in plain words for you to read.

In the new Covenant, God Himself circumcises our heart, and not man.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The key to understanding the role of the law in this New Covenant is knowing how to reconcile these two verses:

"31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be!" (Romans 3:31 NASB)

"13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first (covenant) obsolete." (Hebrews 8:13 NASB)

As Christians we have to understand how a covenant that has been made obsolete by faith in Christ also fulfills, not abolishes, the law of Moses by that same faith in Christ, and what that looks like in actual practice. Most opinions on the matter in the church today end up abolishing the law in the misguided opinion that an 'obsolete' covenant means an 'abolished' law, which it does not, as the two passages above show us.