What does the Word say about the Law of YHWH which, in reality, is the Law of Moses?

[JLB]

Is the uncircumcised fellow in Romans 2:26-29 'right with God' if God does not see his faith as having satisfied the law of circumcision for him? Obviously, 'no'.

Has nothing to do with my question.

It is obvious to all, who are following this thread, that you can not honestly answer the question without exposing the fundamental flaw in your doctrine.

Since Christ Himself abolished in His flesh, the law of Commandments contained in ordinances,
Is it necessary to keep the only law of Moses there ever was, the one that Moses gave to the children of Israel, to be right with God?



If you can't be honest enough to answer with a simple yes or no, then you are simply not going to be honest in having any kind of meaningful discussion about this subject.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is it necessary to keep the only law of Moses there ever was, the one that Moses gave to the children of Israel, to be right with God?

So there is no misunderstanding, what law is that?

 

[JLB]

So there is no misunderstanding, what law is that?

That's what I thought.

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That's what I thought.

JLB

Okay, glad you cleared that up...in a round-a-bout way.

Now back to my answer to your question that I gave you in post #660: 'No'.
But it is necessary to satisfy the requirements of the law of Moses by faith in Jesus Christ so that no outstanding debt of the law remains. Circumcision by the Spirit is one example of this--Romans 2:26-29 NASB.

When a person is circumcised by the Spirit through their faith in Christ not only are they satisfactorily 'keeping' the law of Moses in the eyes of God (not some 'other' law--Romans 2:26-29 NASB), but they are satisfying the requirement for circumcision to be among the nation of God's people that will be spared on the Day of Judgment.

 

[JLB]

So there is no misunderstanding, what law is that?

The very law that was added...

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; Galatians 3:19

The law of God wasn't added, the law of Moses was.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Okay, glad you cleared that up...in a round-a-bout way.

Now back to my answer to your question that I gave you in post #660: 'No'.
But it is necessary to satisfy the requirements of the law of Moses by faith in Jesus Christ so that no outstanding debt of the law remains. Circumcision by the Spirit is one example of this--Romans 2:26-29 NASB.

When a person is circumcised by the Spirit through their faith in Christ not only are they satisfactorily 'keeping' the law of Moses in the eyes of God (not some 'other' law--Romans 2:26-29 NASB), but they are satisfying the requirement for circumcision to be among the nation of God's people that will be spared on the Day of Judgment.

Is it necessary to keep the law of Moses in order to be right with God?


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is it necessary to keep the law of Moses in order to be right with God?


JLB

I answered your question already. 'NO'.
But faith in Christ does satisfy it's requirements for drawing near to God, nonetheless. Circumcision being one example (Romans 2:26-29 NASB). Passover being another (1 Corinthians 5:7-8 NASB). Those Mosaic commands get 'kept' by faith in Christ, but not in regard to their literal Mosaic keeping, but marked for us as 'kept' to God's complete and total satisfaction, nonetheless. Just like Christ satisfies the debt of the law of Moses in regard to the required sacrifice for sin, but not in the literal way of the law of Moses, but which is a 'keeping' of the law of Moses, nonetheless.

 

[JLB]

Those Mosaic commands get 'kept' by faith in Christ

These Passover "types" that Paul alludes to, is not "kept by faith in Christ", but by purging out the sexually immoral people that Paul is referring to as leaven.

Again you misunderstand and misquote what the scripture actual says to "fit" scripture into "your doctrine".

At least you realize there is no need to keep the law of Moses to be right with God.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

These Passover "types" that Paul alludes to, is not "kept by faith in Christ", but by purging out the sexually immoral people that Paul is referring to as leaven.

I hate to be a stickler for details, but the purging of leaven is the Feast of Unleavened Bread immediately FOLLOWING and in conjunction with the Passover Observance:

"5 'In the first month, on the fourteenth * day of the month at twilight is the LORD'S Passover. 6 'Then on the fifteenth * day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. " (Leviticus 23:5-6 NASB)

7 "Unleavened bread shall be eaten throughout the seven days; and nothing leavened shall be seen among you, nor shall any leaven be seen among you..." (Exodus 13:7 NASB)

He's saying, now that you've 'kept' the Passover by believing in Christ (who is the Passover Lamb), we are to now be a household free of leaven and 'keep' the Feast of Unleavened Bread that immediately follows the Passover, the way it is in the (gasp!) law of Moses.

When we do this--offer the sacrifice of Christ to God by having faith in that sacrifice, and then cleansing the body of Christ by that same obedient faith--we satisfy the law of Moses to God's complete and total satisfaction such that no debt of the law of Moses remains outstanding in regard to the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Even though we did not literally do that in the WAY of the law of Moses, because that is the part that has been set aside.

"6 But now, by dying to what once bound us (husband 'sin nature'-see context), we have been released from the law (that legislated our bondage to husband 'sin nature'--see context) so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit (through faith in Christ), and not in the old way of the written code (through the literal WAY of the law of Moses)." (Romans 7:6 NIV parenthesis mine)

 

[Deborah13]

abrogate -
To abolish a custom or law by some authoritative, formal, legislative, or other legally effective method.
abolish - formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution)
The old covenant, made obsolete, and abolished in His flesh. This had to be done in order to establish the new covenant and to end the old covenant Mosaic system. (Heb.8:13, 2 Corinth. 3:13, Eph.2:15, 2 Tim. 1:10)
the law is righteous = the law is just
Doing the law could not make anyone righteous/justified. (Acts 13:39, Gal. 3:11, Gal. 5:4)
One can only be made righteous/justified by faith. (Rom. 3:28, Rom. 5:1, Gal, 3:24)
David broke the show bread law, but he was found to be righteous/justified. Jesus was justified in breaking the sabbath rest when he fed the disciples and healed people on the sabbath.
justified -
"An answer or defense to an allegation of wrongful conduct that the act or omission, though admittedly committed, was not wrongful in all the circumstances."

The thing is, most of the time when we disobey God's law, we are not justified in doing so. Therefore, we need a justified person to take our place and pay the debt that is due for our law breaking. Jesus, in His death, redeemed us from the law that was against us. If He didn't redeem us from the whole law, then no one could be redeemed from their debt for even slander, let alone adultery or murder.
Once He did this there was no longer a use for the law, in the legal sense. The law can no longer exact a penalty against us.
So the only way we can uphold the rightness/justness of the law, is by faith in Christ as our Redeemer from the law's just punishment. (Rom. 3:31)
Through faith in Christ comes works of faith, they are God's workmanship in His people.
That is how I see it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

At least you realize there is no need to keep the law of Moses to be right with God.

Not literally keep it to be right with God.
But everyone who is made right with God through faith in Christ has the temple/worship requirements of the law of Moses marked 'satisfied' for him before God, just as the uncircumcised fellow in Romans 2:26 NASB has the Mosaic requirement for circumcision marked 'satisfied' for him before God because of his obedient faith in Christ.

Christ, and faith in him satisfies the temple/worship requirements of the law of Moses to God's complete and total satisfaction. Even though faith in Christ does not keep the temple/worship laws in the way of the law of Moses, to the letter of the law.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The thing is, most of the time when we disobey God's law, we are not justified in doing so. Therefore, we need a justified person to take our place and pay the debt that is due for our law breaking. Jesus, in His death, redeemed us from the law that was against us.

What is 'God's law'?

 

[Deborah13]

What is 'God's law'?

OP - Law of Moses/old covenant
Abrogated - Law of Moses/old covenant
Abolished in His flesh - Law of Moses/old covenant

 

[JLB]

What is 'God's law'?

"I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
Genesis 2:17

However in order to hear what He says, He asks us to walk with Him in His Presence.


Whatever He says for us to do or not do. Whatever He commands us to do.

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Whatever He says for us to do or not do. Whatever He commands us to do.

IOW, the law of Moses, minus the literal temple/worship commands of the first covenant which don't need to be literally kept anymore (Hebrews 10:1-9 NASB).

 

[JLB]

IOW, the law of Moses, minus the literal temple/worship commands of the first covenant which don't need to be literally kept anymore (Hebrews 10:1-9 NASB).

You have already admitted it is not required to keep the law of Moses to be right with God.

Now go forth soldier of God and convince your Messianic friends of this vital truth.

I'm not playing scriptural "whack-a-mole" with you anymore.


JLB

 

[JLB]

IOW, the law of Moses, minus the literal temple/worship commands of the first covenant which don't need to be literally kept anymore (Hebrews 10:1-9 NASB).

Do you see the command to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in the law of Moses?

Do you see the command to walk before Me and be blameless in the law of Moses?

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you see the command to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in the law of Moses?

Has there ever been a tree of the knowledge of good and evil outside of Eden that God has to tell us not to eat of it? Is that what you hear God telling you?

Do you see the command to walk before Me and be blameless in the law of Moses?

Yes. Deuteronomy 18:13 NASB

 

[JLB]

Has there ever been a tree of the knowledge of good and evil outside of Eden that God has to tell us not to eat of it? Is that what you hear God telling you?

Those that murdered Christ could quote all the knowledge of good and evil backwards and forwards, while they plotted to kill the Son of God.

The scriptures can not give life, only Christ.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40



JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes. Deuteronomy 18:13 NASB

10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.
12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you.13 You shall be blameless before the Lord your God. Deuteronomy 18:10-13


Where is the phrase that the Lord spoke to Abraham, walk before Me and be blameless?

The children of Israel, did not have a personal relationship with the Lord, but rather relied on the Levitical Priesthood or Moses to give them instruction from the Lord.

Unlike Abraham who walked with the Lord and heard His Voice. This is the life of faith, that comes from walking with the Lord.

The Law is not of faith.


JLB