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What if Christ had not died?

Classik

Member
The devil's greatest mistake is to have fought for Jesus' crucifixion. He was a fool and is a first-class fool. Moron!!!! Is it right to say, God used him (the devil) in redeeming man - through Jesus' death on the cross?:lol) And was he a catalyst? NO -to both
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I can see the joy on his face when they were killing Christ. He jubilated when he saw HIM die. 'Let's get the party started!' The devil had a universal party, his band played the best music. It was fun for him.
))((
However, he never knew he was celebrating Jesus' victory.

Climax of the occasion:
And suddenly Jesus appeared. Helter-skelter! They all fled. The fake king devil fled and abandoned his country men.
He took the KEY - Christ took all. All power has been given unto HIM. AMEN! :amen
:dunno :confused :shrug
But what if HE hadn't died? What would the devil have done?
How about our lives? I think the devil'd be stupid to kill his captives, 'man'. He'd spare some and destroy some - but punish us all. He has the power to destroy (If God allows that) and not the power to save or create.
But thank God for Jesus Christ.
 
A lot of unpleasant things would happen. This idiot, the devil, would severly deal with us. Maybe he'd feast on us, one after the other.
However, I do not think the devil's evil power is infinite. It isn't. He could decide to kill us all when he has almost drainned up his power.
He becomes powerless with time and at the end becomes as weak as man. Man would then team up and offer him blows.
::::
And Christ would be seen as a failure. I am glad HE didn't fail:clap. Glory be to God
 
I guess I see things different. I see God always in control. I think we give the devil too much credit.

Take the story of the Garden of Eden. Many think God had a perfect plan for man in the garden, but that Satan and man messed it up, so God came out with plan B to fix it. If man or Satan can really mess up God's perfect plans, how would we ever be safe in heaven? It seems we often have an all powerful God reacting to Satan with plan B's...I don't think so.

In many ways God's plan is and will be a mystery we can't understand now. God is all powerful, his purposes ordained, his will to make failed creatures, angels and humans that would make poor choices, sin and turn against him, but each was made with reason and purpose to fulfill his will.

Col.1
1:16 For by him were all things created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him.

All creation is made with a purpose, all powers and beings were created to play a part in his plan, they were created through him, but most importantly FOR HIM, to complete his will


1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things are held together.

1:18 He is the head of the body, the assembly, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

1:19 For all the fullness was pleased to dwell in him;

1:20 and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens, having made peace through the blood of his cross.

All things made for him, beings in heaven or earth for his purpose reconciled by the cross.

To debate what would've happened if Christ hadn't died has no merit, God would've still been in total control.

When Satan sinned and fell from heaven, God could've ended it then. He could've destroyed Satan, he didn't. He could've put Satan in another universe, he didn't, he could've taken away his power....., he didn't. God by his will placed Satan where, on earth with man with all his power intact to influence man, another imperfect creation by God's design, but each a part of his overall plan for the ages.

If Christ failed and Satan won, then Christ isn't God, Satan would be, but Christ is God, Satan is nothing but a created being in God's plan.
 
I think the Devil's goal was to tempt Christ to give up His mission, hence the various offers satan made Jesus while tempting Him while He was fasting. Jesus' death wasn't the goal; foiling His mission and then destroying His church was (and is) Satan's objective.
 
Great!:thumbsup
I think the devil was really glad about the death of Christ. The devil didn't kill HIM(Christ)...but when he saw HE was indeed going to be crucified he (the sociopath - devil) was glad.
When HE finally died (Christ) the devil rejoiced, danced and celebrated, played chess, he did this and he did that. He was a big fool and is a fool.
 
Classik I truly love the way your mind works as your post are always a good challenge to me to dig deeper into the word of God or have the Holy Spirit bring certain things back to my mind that I have learned.

Simply put if Christ would have not died then we would still be under the curse of the law (let's not make this about law verses grace please) never having the Spirit of God dwelling in us for all Spiritual understanding. The Disciples who followed Christ and heard his teachings knew he was a teacher-prophet sent by God, but would not fully understand his teachings until he was taken up and Gods Spirit once again sent down to open our Spiritual eyes and ears to teach us all Spiritual things of Christ teachings. Satan thought he did away with this Jesus on the cross, but could you imagine his surprise when Jesus came back and was made known to over 400 people before he ascended up to heaven to make intercession for all who are in God as Satan stands beside Christ making accusations against the saints of God.
 
The jews were under the law, so if Christ hadn't died, what about the gentiles not under the law?

It really is a mute issue. If God is God, he would've always had his ordained plan.
His plan was Christ from the beginning. If Christ had not come, there would be no need for previous law that applied for the jews only.
 
The jews were under the law, so if Christ hadn't died, what about the gentiles not under the law?

It really is a mute issue. If God is God, he would've always had his ordained plan.
His plan was Christ from the beginning. If Christ had not come, there would be no need for previous law that applied for the jews only.

I've heard your testimony, and the personal heartache you are experiencing, so can I just say, thank you for fighting through your pain to teach us here something. Your words have brought a revelation to my heart and I have been sincerely touched. Thank you for causing my faith to grow, and for taking a part in healing my old negative views of God.
 
Classik I truly love the way your mind works as your post are always a good challenge to me to dig deeper into the word of God or have the Holy Spirit bring certain things back to my mind that I have learned.

.
Yeah - actually there are areas we overlook or don't even notice they are necessary. That is why I love the presence of our fellow christians.:D
and when we become aware of them we act accordingly, the Spirit assisting us.
I thank God that God is not man. I have billions of questions I have for HIM up there.
 
The jews were under the law, so if Christ hadn't died, what about the gentiles not under the law?

It really is a mute issue. If God is God, he would've always had his ordained plan.
His plan was Christ from the beginning. If Christ had not come, there would be no need for previous law that applied for the jews only.

Very fascinating.
But we are the offspring of Adam and Eve...and what I do not understand is how Adam and Eve's children separated and multiplied the earth, each people having his own culture.
 
I've heard your testimony, and the personal heartache you are experiencing, so can I just say, thank you for fighting through your pain to teach us here something. Your words have brought a revelation to my heart and I have been sincerely touched. Thank you for causing my faith to grow, and for taking a part in healing my old negative views of God.

actually the gentiles would be under the noahide laws. the curse that we are freed from by faith isnt the punishment by law per se but the nature of being sinful. yes of course god has to deal with sin but the reason the lord is called the lamb of god is that our sins were place on him. meaning that he paid the price..


with the old way it was faith in the YHWH then following the law. now its faith in the YHWH whom sent the scapegoat and the believe that he cleansed you that way.
 
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Cross was Gods plan from the beginning.
 
but of course but the hypothetical question is if christ didnt die or hasnt come yet.

i am adressing both. god was reachable if one was near to isreal.
 
The devil's greatest mistake is to have fought for Jesus' crucifixion. He was a fool and is a first-class fool. Moron!!!! Is it right to say, God used him (the devil) in redeeming man - through Jesus' death on the cross?:lol) And was he a catalyst? NO -to both

I'm not much for hypothetical questions with "what ifs" like this. I won't go so far as to say no one should, but at the very least, it doesn't seem fruitful. This was written, so there's no way it wouldn't come to pass.

I chimed in to say I REALLY don't think it's wise to mock the devil. Even His angels didn't dare do it.

Jude 1:9 "But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

It's true that we are protected by the Lord, but I wouldn't be taunting him in such an inviting manner. Jesus certainly didn't provoke him.
 
Very fascinating.
But we are the offspring of Adam and Eve...and what I do not understand is how Adam and Eve's children separated and multiplied the earth, each people having his own culture.

Well, I guess it gets back to the creation of mankind to start with, seems this is discussed in another thread somewhere. I believe God created mankind, both man and woman at the same time as stated in Gen's. chapter 1, where it states both man and woman were created in his image and told to be fruitful and populate the earth, much different than Gen's. Chapter 2 where man seems limited to the garden.

We know other humans existed because Cain left and found a mate. Obvious the mate he found lived among other people. I myself cannot ignore the historic, genealogical or scientific evidence that proves man as an intelligent being has been on this earth for 75,000 years at least. I do not believe in evolution in that species change, except that man certainly evolved somewhat due to environment, climate, etc..

Like most creation stories, they're told by specific cultures and reflect their genealogy as best as they can trace it, I think the Hebrews told their story based on their cultural views.

If one takes Gen's literal starting with Adam and Eve, then one must accept man has been on the earth about 6000 years, I can't, so I look for other reasoning. We do find many clues beyond the metaphors of Gen's., again that Cain found a female mate not mentioned. Some assume that this could be other offspring of Adam and Eve, certainly possible, but knowing that the many parts of the earth then were long populated, could've been from tribal lines that long existed. We must assume being a female she couldn't survive alone and was part of another tribe of people that also existed during this time.
 
I'm not much for hypothetical questions with "what ifs" like this. I won't go so far as to say no one should, but at the very least, it doesn't seem fruitful. This was written, so there's no way it wouldn't come to pass.

I chimed in to say I REALLY don't think it's wise to mock the devil. Even His angels didn't dare do it.

Jude 1:9 "But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

It's true that we are protected by the Lord, but I wouldn't be taunting him in such an inviting manner. Jesus certainly didn't provoke him.

As if he is a kind/interesting fellow?:chin
He spends every possible second of the day mocking christianity and fighting to condemn many.
The success of the cross is his first mockery.
Or would I say, 'Hi, devi', long time no see. How are things with you?'
I know he is reading this thread.
 
Hey Classik,
Yes, Satan probably thought he triumphed over Christ. But Christ had no sin in Him, therefore Satan couldn't hold Him.

1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

And He hates us for it. More than ever.

Anyway,
If He hadn't died then that man would not have been The Christ. But prophecy will be fulfilled. If it wasn't that man then rest assured Christ still would have come to fulfill the prophecies.
 
Good thinking, Ace.
Well, the bible says nothing about other people created. And science has proved controvercial on the issue of the age of earth.
I don't know where to find this thread you are talking about...and heaven forgive me for going off the topic (perhpas our moderators could move it or merge this with that thread...or even begin a new one).
To me, it makes more sense to say Adam and his honey only existed, and we are their progeny.
People in those days had long lives, they lived close to a thousand years. Belief me, a lot happens in a hundred year period...in a thousand year period what would you expect?
Take your own family as an example.
For 100 yrs @ least, your family or generation has been in existence. You don't and can't know all of them. They are so many. Assuming we move all of your family member, uncles, aunts, cousins, nieces, nephews etc (use a 100 yr period) to Nou Camp - you'd be floored at the number:lol You have got a rich assembly of fans. Assuming you don't know them, and they have spread out into the hiddden chambers of this great stadium, one day you would leave your chamber, go round the stadium and discover other of your relatives whom you don't know. Don't you think you could long to marry one of them and raise a family.
After 500 yrs what would you expect? What would happen after a thousand years? Sandro Rosel would have to expand that stadium - otherwise it would collapse. Sandro Rosel ( http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ell_-_2010.jpg/200px-Sandro_Rosell_-_2010.jpg ) ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_FC_Barcelona ) ( http://fcbarcelona.com)
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and when Cain said, 'If people see me...' Believe me, the people in the stadium whom I believe (you) have seen/discovered (and you know with time they'd multiply more), whom you never realise are your own blood, are great enough in number to justify the 'if' of the Old Testament.
(())
Even in your own family, Ace, you have cousines, aunts and uncles with different characters. This could make you say: these people and their way of life...And Cain never knew them, and he said, 'if people...' (People = with different characters, strangers who were his own blood etc)
Just a picture:salute
 
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