What is the central doctrine of Christianity?

[Charlotte]

All you have to do is admit your sins and ask God for forgiveness and to give you the Holy Spirit. Good deeds come FROM the Holy Spirit, not from ourselves. Doing good deeds without the Holy Spirit is giving credit to ourselves for them rather than to God. Therefore, we cannot do good deeds without the Holy Spirit in us because our motives will be to glorify ourselves instead of God.

So, I do have to do deeds before I receive the Holy Spirit, right?
This way I can say I got the Holy Spirit because I did this or that, right?

Charlotte

 

[Eve777]

So, I do have to do deeds before I receive the Holy Spirit, right?
This way I can say I got the Holy Spirit because I did this or that, right?

I know that was addressed to Heidi,,,but here's my answer....What does the Bible say?

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


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Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[Charlotte]

Eve777,

How can we obey Him if we don't have the Holy Spirit given to us first. Do we obey Him on our own strength?

(Gal. 314) says that we might receive the promise of the Spirit THROUGH FAITH.

(1John 4:2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.

First we have to be drawn or draged to Christ, then God works in us to do of His good pleasure. The Holy Spirit is a Gift of God and I do not have to work to get it.

Charlotte

 

[Eve777]

The Holy Spirit is a Gift of God and I do not have to work to get it.

Obedience is not a work....


"I Try"

"While witnessing to people and open-air preaching and handing out tracts, many people ignore us or mock us. Some people tell us that they already know about God. These people said that they already went to church and that they were "fine." We have asked such people if they obey God. Their reply was usually, "I try" or "sometimes." We also often asked them if they still continued to sin (1 John 3:6, 9) and their reply was quite similar: "I try not to, but of course everyone sins." These people who said that they were "fine" did not really have much evidence for being "fine" in God's sight. In fact, the best reason that they had for the hope the was supposedly in them was their church attendance. They obeyed God sometimes and resisted sin sometimes...but is this what a Christian life is like? Do Christians obey their LORD sometimes? Do they still do the devil's work sometimes? No, this is not the fruit that identifies a Christian. Since we encountered many people who seemed to have a false hope that they would be saved, the Lord led me to write to you about "trying" to please God vs. actually pleasing Him.

"Someone asked him [Jesus], 'Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?' He said to them, 'Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to...you will stand outside knocking and pleading, "Sir, open the door for us."...But he will reply, "I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!"'" (see Luke 13:23-27).

Jesus said that many people will try to enter the Kingdom of Heaven but will not make it. They will "try." They will not be able to enter, however, mainly because they were "evildoers." Even though they "tried" to live a life worthy of the Lord (Eph. 4:1), they continued to do evil. The question then arises: do you try to live for God, but still do evil? If you are still a sinner, you are in danger for "all sinners will be destroyed" (Psalm 37:38). If you hope to enter heaven, but still do what displeases the Lord, take heed because "Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful" (Rev. 21:27).

Some will say, "But I just can't help but sin." The Word of God says to you: "In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your own blood" (Heb. 12:4). How hard do you really struggle against sin? Don't tell God that you can't have pure thoughts, but then you watch all kinds of impure television programs. Don't tell God that you can't help but lust, but then you listen to all kinds of music that promotes lust. Don't tell God that you just can't help but sin when he tells you that "His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him" (2 Peter 1:3). It is God's power that gives us the ability to please him, but you need to struggle and strive with his power working in you (Col. 1:29). This is why in Luke 13:23-27 that Jesus told his listeners to "Make every effort." This is not a game. Don't just "try", make every effort. Be diligent.

Some of you might say that God is all-forgiving so he will forgive you when you keep on sinning against him. But is that what the Bible says? Some of you think that because you call Jesus "Lord" and have acknowledged him as "the Savior" that this will allow you to keep on sinning, but still be forgiven. But Jesus said, "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46). You might feel "safe" because you supposedly know the truth. However, the Bible says that if you persist in going your own way, God will never be willing to forgive you even if you feel safe now (Deut. 29:19-20). Jesus came to destroy sin, the works of the devil, so don't fool yourself: if you continue to do the devil's work, you are of the devil and not of God (1 John 3:8).

I don't want any of you to find yourself standing before God saying, "Well, Lord, I tried to obey you." He may very well say to you, "If you really tried, then why didn't you obey me; I gave you everything you needed; you could have done all things through Christ, but since you continued to do evil...Away from me, you evildoer!" Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father" (Matt. 7:21). Only those who do the will of God (not those who try to do the will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven. "You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised" (Heb. 10:36). So my question to you today is: Do you obey God or do you merely try to obey God?

"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ--to the glory and praise of God" (Philippians 1:9-11).


taken from obeyGod.com

 

[Adams son]

Amen Eve. This is a very important message.

Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame. (1 Cor 15:34).

OR?

Become sober-minded as you ought, and try to stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God and they shamefully think obedience is relevant to their salvation.

Not every one who says to me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.' Every one then who hears these words of mine (the Sermon on the Mount) and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock.....

And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read?" And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself." And he said to him, "You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live." (Luke 10:25-28).

Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap destruction; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Ya reap what you sow.

And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who OBEY him. (Acts 5:32)

 

[Heidi]

All you have to do is admit your sins and ask God for forgiveness and to give you the Holy Spirit. Good deeds come FROM the Holy Spirit, not from ourselves. Doing good deeds without the Holy Spirit is giving credit to ourselves for them rather than to God. Therefore, we cannot do good deeds without the Holy Spirit in us because our motives will be to glorify ourselves instead of God.

So, I do have to do deeds before I receive the Holy Spirit, right?
This way I can say I got the Holy Spirit because I did this or that, right?

Charlotte

Charlotte, please re-read my post. I said the exact opposite. Again, good deeds come FROM the Holy Spirit in you. As I mentioned in my post, your FIRST step is to admit you sin and ask God for forgivennes and the Holy Spirit. THEN your good deeds will follow.

 

[Charlotte]

Heidi,

But first I have to do something before I receive the Holy Spirit, right?

This is what you said I have to do, "admit my sin....or repent, ask God for forgiveness, ask for the Holy Spirit."

This is something that we do in order to receive the Holy Spirit. I thought it was a gift, not something I had to work for? If there is one thing I have to do no matter how small it is, then it is not a gift anymore , but something we work for. You can't have it both ways.

Charlotte

 

[Heidi]

Heidi,

But first I have to do something before I receive the Holy Spirit, right?

This is what you said I have to do, "admit my sin....or repent, ask God for forgiveness, ask for the Holy Spirit."

This is something that we do in order to receive the Holy Spirit. I thought it was a gift, not something I had to work for? If there is one thing I have to do no matter how small it is, then it is not a gift anymore , but something we work for. You can't have it both ways.

Charlotte

The ONLY thing you have to do is admit the truth that you sin. That is the FIRST step toward following Christ. That is why John prepared the way by baptizing people with water. The baptism of water is what leads to repentance and the baptisim of the Holy Spirit is what enabls you to love God. You cannot love God until you KNOW him, just like I cannot love people I haven't met. I can understand that they are human beings worthy of being treated the same way God treats me, but i cannot feel GENUINE love for someone I don't know. As Paul said, "love must be sincere."

Repentance isn't a work, it is simply the truth. It is a RESPONSE to God drawing us. My loving God isn't a work at all! It takes ZERO effort for me to love God because he has given me his love from the Holy Spirit. What would be effort for me is to NOT love God because since I have been born of the Spirit, it now controls me. Only when you see the lies of the devil, and WANT God's love, will it be a NATURAL response to ask for it.

 

[Charlotte]

Heidi,

How do I get to that first step? So, now I have to be baptized two, that is another work.

It takes zero effort for me to follow Christ because He did it all. God called me and God changed me and God will see to it that I be with Him because God looses nothing. I didn't have to do any kind of works, now I cannot boast that I accepted Him, I trusted Him. It is always I, I, I, I, I, ME, ME, ME, ME. Never, Him, Him, Him,. It makes me really upset. : : :

Charlotte

 

[Heidi]

Heidi,

How do I get to that first step? So, now I have to be baptized two, that is another work.

It takes zero effort for me to follow Christ because He did it all. God called me and God changed me and God will see to it that I be with Him because God looses nothing. I didn't have to do any kind of works, now I cannot boast that I accepted Him, I trusted Him. It is always I, I, I, I, I, ME, ME, ME, ME. Never, Him, Him, Him,. It makes me really upset. : : :

Charlotte

This is why God allows sin, Charlotte. He uses the pain of sin to bring us to the DESIRE for him. Only when the pain of sin is so strong that our least stressful option would be to seek its remedy, can we come to God. There can be no forgiveness without sin. There is as much effort in asking God for forgiveness as there is in begging someone to rescue us from a fire. There is NO work invoved in this.

 

[Charlotte]

Christ told His disciples, "I chose you, you didn't choose Me.

(Psalms 34:12) Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; AND THE PEOPLE WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN FOR HIS OWN INHERITANCE. This is speaking of Israel.

Acts 9:15 Speaking of Paul, Go thy way: for HE IS A CHOSEN vessel unto me.

Rom. 16: 13) Salute Rufus CHOSEN IN THE LORD, and HIS MOTHER AND MINE.

Eph. 1:4) According as he hath CHOSEN US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

You see, God chose those whom he wanted to understand and be holy at this time, before they were ever created. We had nothing to do with it.

It has already been taken care of. There is nothing we can do to make God chose us. It has already been descided who will repent and believe in this life.

1Peter 2:4 ) BUT CHOSEN OF GOD and precious.

2Sam. 6:21) And David said, unto Michal, It was BEFORE THE LORD, WHICH CHOSE ME BEFORE THY FATHER, TO APPOINT ME RULER OVER THE PEOPLE OF THE LORD, OVER ISRAEL.

We cannot come to God, no matter what we do. We cannot repent unless God wants us to.

Charlotte

 

[Charlotte]

Heidi,

Christ told His disciples, "I chose you, you didn't choose Me.

(Psalms 34:12) Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; AND THE PEOPLE WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN FOR HIS OWN INHERITANCE. This is speaking of Israel.

Acts 9:15 Speaking of Paul, Go thy way: for HE IS A CHOSEN vessel unto me.

Rom. 16: 13) Salute Rufus CHOSEN IN THE LORD, and HIS MOTHER AND MINE.

Eph. 1:4) According as he hath CHOSEN US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

You see, God chose those whom he wanted to understand and be holy at this time, before they were ever created. We had nothing to do with it.

It has already been taken care of. There is nothing we can do to make God chose us. It has already been descided who will repent and believe in this life.

1Peter 2:4 ) BUT CHOSEN OF GOD and precious.

2Sam. 6:21) And David said, unto Michal, It was BEFORE THE LORD, WHICH CHOSE ME BEFORE THY FATHER, TO APPOINT ME RULER OVER THE PEOPLE OF THE LORD, OVER ISRAEL.

We cannot come to God, no matter what we do. We cannot repent unless God wants us to.

Charlotte

 

[Eve777]

We cannot come to God, no matter what we do. We cannot repent unless God wants us to.

He comes to you when you seek forgiveness.....you find him when you search for him with your whole heart....

Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.


Jam 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye] double minded.

Yes, you can repent at any time....to repent just means to turn from sin....and God wants us all to repent....

Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

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Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

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Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

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Mar 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.


You want to get God's attention.....repent and seek him.....

 

[Charlotte]

Eve77,

You are saying God does nothing unless we act first? Boy, if that were true He would loose all people. :o

Charlotte

 

[Adams son]

Eve77,

You are saying God does nothing unless we act first? Boy, if that were true He would loose all people. :o

Charlotte

I think the problem with these ideas results from a human being's incessant egotistical propensity.... and to suppose that God acting FIRST would mean God did something fancy to each one of us to make us come to him in our own conversion event. People are so caught up with themselves they don't see the big picture that God did act first 2000 years ago.

God has already acted first for all of us. He sent us the gift of his Son. Now its our turn to respond to his gift of grace.

 

[cj]

It takes zero effort for me to follow Christ because He did it all.

How do you know this?

God called me....

How do you know this?

..... and God changed me......

And how do you know this?

...... and God will see to it that I be with Him because God looses nothing.

And how do you know this?

I didn't have to do any kind of works, now I cannot boast that I accepted Him,....

Okay...... and yet, with your own mouth you confess......

.... I trusted Him......

Who trusted Him Charlotte?

Is that and "I" that is written there?

Did you say..... "I"...... trusted Him?

Isn't that, according to your take on things, "work"?



This is the reality Charlotte...... no matter how you put it, a response is required to what God has done.


In love,
cj

 

[Charlotte]

cj,

But Heidi says we have to act before God does anything.

Jesus said, "no man can come to me except it is given to him of my Father".

So, how can I come to Him first? Heidi, didn't you say "you believed the words of Jesus"?

Charlotte

 

[cj]

cj,

But Heidi says we have to act before God does anything.

Jesus said, "no man can come to me except it is given to him of my Father".

So, how can I come to Him first? Heidi, didn't you say "you believed the words of Jesus"?

Charlotte

Charlotte,

Heidi is young in her understanding..... very much for the Lord, but still full of the "self" in her speaking.

When Jesus came to men the first time, it was the same as God coming to men, all men. He made the first move towards reconciliation.

But we must respond in the only way that God has given us to respond.... with trust. Which you yourself have confessed you did.

Trusting is a matter of the will.... it is the same as believing. And this is why you are saved. You did not see, yet you believed and trusted.

Do you realize how wonderful this is? Only God could accomplish this in men.

You respond to His love for you Charlotte, and the issue of His grace towards you and your response to His gift of grace produced your salvation...... and even more....... as you go on to trust Him even more, as you are perfected in this trust/faith...... and as I am perfected in this trust/faith...... God gets His desired bride, the Church, His body that has been built up out of and in faith.

Eve came out of Adam..... scripture says that Adam was created but Eve was built. This is what the Church is likened to. The Church came out of God Himself, out of the side of Jesus. It is built up by blood and water; the very elements that came out of His pierced side.

Do you know what this blood and water coming out of Jesus' side represent?

All that God requires from us is that we trust/believe He has already done this, and is bringing each of us into what He has already done.

In love,
cj

 

[Heidi]

Again, Charlotte has COMPLETELY misunderstood my post. I said that it takes as much work to ask God for forgiveness as it does to ask someone to rescue us from a burning fire. I then added that it takes NO work at all. If Charlotte doesn't understand that, then there is nothing I can do about it.

As for your response, Cj, I suggest you become familiar with the posts you are attacking before you can even BEGIN to judge them. But that is consistent with your motives for almost every post you make here. It has become a habit of yours to attack people on almost every post you make, so your motives are quite obvious. I cannot be guilty of something I didn't say.

 

[cj]

Again, Charlotte has COMPLETELY misunderstood my post. I said that it takes as much work to ask God for forgiveness as it does to ask someone to rescue us from a burning fire. I then added that it takes NO work at all. If Charlotte doesn't understand that, then there is nothing I can do about it.

As for your response, Cj, I suggest you become familiar with the posts you are attacking before you can even BEGIN to judge them. But that is consistent with your motives for almost every post you make here. It has become a habit of yours to attack people on almost every post you make, so your motives are quite obvious. I cannot be guilty of something I didn't say.

Heidi,

In your own words you stated in another thread that we should hear what both Paul and Timothy said to believers....... But the fact is, Timothy never wrote anything in the bible.

This fact alone exposes your lack of scriptural understanding. And this is not the only mistake you've made.

Therefore, I have every ground to say what I said, as your speaking has given me thisground.

Additionally, all I stated above is my thought about the depth of your understanding of the scriptures, according to what I have seen from your speaking on these boards. It is not an "attack" as you have claimed, it is an observation that I have shared with Charlotte.



As for your following thoughts....

".... But that is consistent with your motives for almost every post you make here. It has become a habit of yours to attack people on almost every post you make, so your motives are quite obvious."

They are unfounded, and really just a "knee-jerk" reaction from someone who is upset at being referred to as young in her scriptural understanding..... and was fully expected.



In love,
cj