What is the central doctrine of Christianity?

[Heidi]

Heidi,

Christ told His disciples, "I chose you, you didn't choose Me.

(Psalms 34:12) Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; AND THE PEOPLE WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN FOR HIS OWN INHERITANCE. This is speaking of Israel.

Acts 9:15 Speaking of Paul, Go thy way: for HE IS A CHOSEN vessel unto me.

Rom. 16: 13) Salute Rufus CHOSEN IN THE LORD, and HIS MOTHER AND MINE.

Eph. 1:4) According as he hath CHOSEN US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

You see, God chose those whom he wanted to understand and be holy at this time, before they were ever created. We had nothing to do with it.

It has already been taken care of. There is nothing we can do to make God chose us. It has already been descided who will repent and believe in this life.

1Peter 2:4 ) BUT CHOSEN OF GOD and precious.

2Sam. 6:21) And David said, unto Michal, It was BEFORE THE LORD, WHICH CHOSE ME BEFORE THY FATHER, TO APPOINT ME RULER OVER THE PEOPLE OF THE LORD, OVER ISRAEL.

We cannot come to God, no matter what we do. We cannot repent unless God wants us to.

Charlotte

You forget about the passage where Jesus says, "He who seeks will find." Whoever wants Jesus, will find Him. To the ones whom He has chosen, He gives the desire. To the ones he has not chosen, he has not given the desire. Again, since none of us knows if we are called, our response to God is completely our responsibility. I had no idea i was called until I received the Holy Spirit. I had been an atheist for 38 years. Then I realized I wanted to know him. That is when he came to me.

 

[Shana]

Heidi, do you believe that Jesus gave you the desire to seek and want Him? How can individuals seek Him and want Him if He does not give them this desire?God bless.

 

[Heidi]

Again, Charlotte has COMPLETELY misunderstood my post. I said that it takes as much work to ask God for forgiveness as it does to ask someone to rescue us from a burning fire. I then added that it takes NO work at all. If Charlotte doesn't understand that, then there is nothing I can do about it.

As for your response, Cj, I suggest you become familiar with the posts you are attacking before you can even BEGIN to judge them. But that is consistent with your motives for almost every post you make here. It has become a habit of yours to attack people on almost every post you make, so your motives are quite obvious. I cannot be guilty of something I didn't say.

Heidi,

In your own words you stated in another thread that we should hear what both Paul and Timothy said to believers....... But the fact is, Timothy never wrote anything in the bible.

This fact alone exposes your lack of scriptural understanding. And this is not the only mistake you've made.

Therefore, I have every ground to say what I said, as your speaking has given me thisground.

Additionally, all I stated above is my thought about the depth of your understanding of the scriptures, according to what I have seen from your speaking on these boards. It is not an "attack" as you have claimed, it is an observation that I have shared with Charlotte.



As for your following thoughts....

".... But that is consistent with your motives for almost every post you make here. It has become a habit of yours to attack people on almost every post you make, so your motives are quite obvious."

They are unfounded, and really just a "knee-jerk" reaction from someone who is upset at being referred to as young in her scriptural understanding..... and was fully expected.



In love,
cj

Oh, so you're still stuck on that mistake when i told you I wrote quickly and said that Timothy said, instead of the author of Timothy said. I have already acknowledged that typo but it seems to give you pleasure to keep harping on it, Cj. How does a typo reflect a lack of scriptural understanding? I already KNEW that Timothy didn't write the book of Timothy.

Your idea that all Christians are Gods and perfect reflects YOUR lack of scriptural understanding, Cj. If that mistake is what matters to you, Cj, then you INDEED are looking at the trees instead of the forest. You miss MUCH that way.

 

[Eve777]

do you believe that Jesus gave you the desire to seek and want Him? How can individuals seek Him and want Him if He does not give them this desire?

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


"I delight to do Thy will, O My God: yea, Thy law is within My heart." Ps. 40:8.

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

The desire to know him and to serve him, is written in your heart......

No excuse...

 

[Heidi]

Heidi, do you believe that Jesus gave you the desire to seek and want Him? How can individuals seek Him and want Him if He does not give them this desire?God bless.

They cannot, Shana. Jesus said; "No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him." But what you don't understand is that people who have no desire for God are PROUD of this! If you've ever been to an atheists forum, you will see that this doesn't sadden them a bit. So why should it sadden you? It does sadden you BECAUSE you have a heart for God, Shana. But they don't WANT him! I've tried my hardest to bring them to Christ but they ridicule Christ, mock him, laugh at those who believe him and they KNOW they could go to hell for this but they could care less. The feeling of pride they have for believing they know better than Christ is much mnore rewarding to them than to seek Christ. Only GOD knows the hearts & minds of men and who can bear to hear the truth & who cannot. Yes indeed. God is fair and just. He gives everyone exactly what he wants!

 

[Charlotte]

Heidi,

Have you given it a thought that maybe the reason atheists, "don't want Christ" as you say, is because God hasn't called them or hasn't given them the heart to want Him as yet? They can't come to Him if He doesn't draw Him. You only come to Him because He has given you that desire, if He hadn't, you would still be an atheist.

I have noticed this on just about all of the Christian forums I get on. Athiests can deny That God exists, talk about God, say all kinds of things about God and get away with it, but us UR people who proclaim the love of God for all mankind are Devils, heretics, not Christians, you name it. It isn't just this forum I am talking about but all of them. I don't mean any thing bad about anyone on any of the forums, I am just stating a fact. It is amazing to me, I just don't undrstand it.

Charlotte

 

[Heidi]

I don't want to get into the UR doctrine, Charlotte. The bottom line is that a person either thinks Jesus is a liar or he's not. He cannot be the way, the truth, and the life, and at the same time be a liar. It is impossible. It's one or the other. That is why he says; "He who is not with me is against me." You cannot be both.

Atheists are open about their unbelief. But jesus said there will be MANY who will call him Lord and honor him with their lips but their hearts will far from him. He calls these people wolves disguised as sheep. Jesus's true sheep will NOT contradict ANY of his words and they believe everything he says. That's because they are WITH him, not against him. But those who say they are with him, then also say they doubt him or do not believe his words, or wonder if he really said what he said, or change his words are those who honor him with their lips but obviously their hearts are far from him. "A house divided aginst itself cannot stand."

As for whether or not i have given any though to whether the reason atheists don't believe is because God has hardened their hearts, I started thinking about this around 15 years ago. When I got saved, it was one of the first things I wondered about. ALL good things come from God, not ourselves or satan. This includes salvation. Again, only GOD knows the hearts and minds of men & who can handle the truth & who cannot. Not us.

 

[Eve777]

Just for the record...I was an atheist before I got saved....or at least an agnostic.....I went from one to the other.. :-D And the reason I didn't know God was because I didn't want to know him....I though religion was a crutch and I didn't need it......the last thing on my mind was getting saved....I just wanted to see how the story of Jonathon and David ended up when my DH read it to me..He stopped in the middle and I picked up the book and finished the story......turned out to be a Bible Book.... :o and the rest as they say, is History. I found it very interesting and kept reading....I love to read..... I don't think my heart was hardened, so much as I felt superior to those poor souls who didn't know they were reading fairy tales....

 

[Heidi]

Just for the record...I was an atheist before I got saved....or at least an agnostic.....I went from one to the other.. :-D And the reason I didn't know God was because I didn't want to know him....I though religion was a crutch and I didn't need it......the last thing on my mind was getting saved....I just wanted to see how the story of Jonathon and David ended up when my DH read it to me..He stopped in the middle and I picked up the book and finished the story......turned out to be a Bible Book.... :o and the rest as they say, is History. I found it very interesting and kept reading....I love to read..... I don't think my heart was hardened, so much as I felt superior to those poor souls who didn't know they were reading fairy tales....

I bet you didn't realize that it was God who was drawing you, Eve. Neither did I until he came to me. And that is why we are accountable. As unbelievers, God and satan are invisible to us. Yherefore, we think it's our own minds who are coming to God or rejecting him. And that is all we need to know as unbelievers. It's no coincidence that God hardened the hearts of the Jews and to this day, they still don't believe Christ.

 

[Shana]

Heidi, as Charlotte, asked, how is it that atheists will come to God, want God, unless God first draws them? Praise God, that He in His mercy and grace drew you and Eve, as He drew all of us. Such is the power of our God. God bless.

 

[cj]

Oh, so you're still stuck on that mistake when i told you I wrote quickly and said that Timothy said, instead of the author of Timothy said. I have already acknowledged that typo but it seems to give you pleasure to keep harping on it, Cj. How does a typo reflect a lack of scriptural understanding? I already KNEW that Timothy didn't write the book of Timothy.

Your words were "Paul and Timothy..."

That's no typo Heidi.

But anyway, lets move on.

Your idea that all Christians are Gods and perfect reflects YOUR lack of scriptural understanding, Cj. If that mistake is what matters to you, Cj, then you INDEED are looking at the trees instead of the forest. You miss MUCH that way.

Tell me Heidi...... since you say you are now born of the Spirit,....... Who's ya Daddy?



In love,
cj

 

[godspeed]

Eve777,

How can we obey Him if we don't have the Holy Spirit given to us first. Do we obey Him on our own strength?

(Gal. 314) says that we might receive the promise of the Spirit THROUGH FAITH.

(1John 4:2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.

First we have to be drawn or draged to Christ, then God works in us to do of His good pleasure. The Holy Spirit is a Gift of God and I do not have to work to get it.

Charlotte

Good post Charlotte. I agree with you about having to be dragged to Christ. We are born in sin and are totally deceitful and desperately wicked - paraphrased from Jeremiah. We cannot even choose Him. He first chooses us. At least, this is the way it happened to me.

Helen

 

[Heidi]

Heidi, as Charlotte, asked, how is it that atheists will come to God, want God, unless God first draws them? Praise God, that He in His mercy and grace drew you and Eve, as He drew all of us. Such is the power of our God. God bless.

Again, NONE of us KNOWS whom God is drawing, Charlotte, not even the person himself! We were ALL unbelievers before we got saved because none of us was born with the knowledge of God. Therefore, only GOD knows whom he is drawing! That is why we witness! Therefore, salvation IS open to all because none of us has a clue who He will save!