What is the general consensus on the rapture here?

[Golgotha]

This is going to get us nowhere. I previously stated that in order for your first post in here to stand, you first have to show that your idea of the rapture is correct. Only then can you begin to apply the verses you have given. So, at this point, only 1 Thess 4:17 "supports" the popular idea of the rapture.

Until you do that, we cannot have a meaningful discussion because we are both talking about two different concepts of the rapture.

I agree as obviously the Lord is not ministering to either one of us for this iron sharpening iron to bear fruit even though I have addressed your scripture & shown the misapplication as you have yet to show why or how I was misapplying mine...

Thanks anyway. maybe the Lord will use you later on or someone else will as I am open to edification & correction but so far, He is still confirming His words to me on the subject.

Have a good day, brother.

 

[Free]

I agree as obviously the Lord is not ministering to either one of us for this iron sharpening iron to bear fruit

What is so hard to understand about this request: in order for your first post in here to stand, you first have to show that your idea of the rapture is correct. Only then can you begin to apply the verses you have given?

even though I have addressed your scripture & shown the misapplication as you have yet to show why or how I was misapplying mine...

That simply isn't true; you were even just previously addressing the very post in which I did so. I clearly showed how but the main issue, again, is that you are arguing for a concept of the rapture that 1) you have not shown to be biblical, and 2) that no one else is arguing.

 

[Golgotha]

What is so hard to understand about this request: in order for your first post in here to stand, you first have to show that your idea of the rapture is correct. Only then can you begin to apply the verses you have given?


That simply isn't true; you were even just previously addressing the very post in which I did so. I clearly showed how but the main issue, again, is that you are arguing for a concept of the rapture that 1) you have not shown to be biblical, and 2) that no one else is arguing.

But only God can help each other see the truth in His words so obviously it is not happening here. Maybe later on, He will.

 

[Randy]

But only God can help each other see the truth in His words so obviously it is not happening here. Maybe later on, He will.

He already has to me but its on the last day at the resurrection of us all. The saints must endure the reign of the beast.
How do you read the parable of the sower? found in
Matt 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

 

[Golgotha]

He already has to me but its on the last day at the resurrection of us all. The saints must endure the reign of the beast.
How do you read the parable of the sower? found in
Matt 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

Thanks ahead of time for sharing.

How can the weeds be growing with the wheat? who are the weeds? Those professing, but saved believers that are not abiding in Him as His disciples are the weeds, be it by heresy or by unrepentant works of the flesh.

Since the church is to excommunicate unrepentant believers and not to even eat with them in fellowship like in communion, then what do you think God will do for the Marriage Supper that is to be held in Heaven & not on earth?

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Is the iniquity of including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son in worship broadens the way for how many go astray so that in the latter days, we are warned to strive to enter thru that straight gate in coming to God the father by the only way provided and that is by the only way of the Son? John 14:6

Did Jesus really meant that approaching God the Father by any other way than the Son is a work of iniquity? John 10:1

Is Jesus really the only door? John 10:7-9

Is this judgment over each and all believer on how God the Father wants us to honor Him in worship by only honoring the Son? John 5:22-23

Is that what Paul was talking about to be in obedience in having this mind of Christ in worship in order to glorify God the Father? Philippians 2:5-13

Can that be the warning to strive to enter thru that straight gate for why many today may find themselves unable to be raptured into Heaven above? Luke 13:24-30

How about how they do communion in thinking they are eating and drinking in His Presence, believing Christ's Presence is in the bread and the wine rather than just doing it in remembrance of Him?? You cannot be remembering Him if one is receiving Him again by communion. Is that a work that denies Him? Luke 13:26-27

Are we ready as found abiding in Him as His disciples to go? Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8

So there will be God judging His House first at the pre great tribulation rapture event because how can anyone be still going to church as if in a carefree world to be led astray when the beast will be waging war on the saints for the duration of the great tribulation?

So those saints not ready and left behind and new believers will be going through the great tribulation, but not those saints abiding in Him for they will be taken to sit down at the Marriage Supper in Heaven with the resurrected O.T. saints & N.T. saints.

Reread Luke 13:24-30 above in this post to see that truth.

 

[Randy]

Thanks ahead of time for sharing.

How can the weeds be growing with the wheat? who are the weeds? Those professing, but saved believers that are not abiding in Him as His disciples are the weeds, be it by heresy or by unrepentant works of the flesh.

Since the church is to excommunicate unrepentant believers and not to even eat with them in fellowship like in communion, then what do you think God will do for the Marriage Supper that is to be held in Heaven & not on earth?

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Is the iniquity of including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son in worship broadens the way for how many go astray so that in the latter days, we are warned to strive to enter thru that straight gate in coming to God the father by the only way provided and that is by the only way of the Son? John 14:6

Did Jesus really meant that approaching God the Father by any other way than the Son is a work of iniquity? John 10:1

Is Jesus really the only door? John 10:7-9

Is this judgment over each and all believer on how God the Father wants us to honor Him in worship by only honoring the Son? John 5:22-23

Is that what Paul was talking about to be in obedience in having this mind of Christ in worship in order to glorify God the Father? Philippians 2:5-13

Can that be the warning to strive to enter thru that straight gate for why many today may find themselves unable to be raptured into Heaven above? Luke 13:24-30

How about how they do communion in thinking they are eating and drinking in His Presence, believing Christ's Presence is in the bread and the wine rather than just doing it in remembrance of Him?? You cannot be remembering Him if one is receiving Him again by communion. Is that a work that denies Him? Luke 13:26-27

Are we ready as found abiding in Him as His disciples to go? Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8

So there will be God judging His House first at the pre great tribulation rapture event because how can anyone be still going to church as if in a carefree world to be led astray when the beast will be waging war on the saints for the duration of the great tribulation?

So those saints not ready and left behind and new believers will be going through the great tribulation, but not those saints abiding in Him for they will be taken to sit down at the Marriage Supper in Heaven with the resurrected O.T. saints & N.T. saints.

Reread Luke 13:24-30 above in this post to see that truth.

Found in Matt 13
Actually Jesus explained it to Hi disciples
He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

So He won't pull the weeds up early as it may harm the wheat. He stated they would both grow up together until the harvest which starts with the weeds.

 

[Golgotha]

Found in Matt 13
Actually Jesus explained it to Hi disciples
He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

So He won't pull the weeds up early as it may harm the wheat. He stated they would both grow up together until the harvest which starts with the weeds.

Let us address the weeds as the damned from your quoted reference as growing together with the saved.

Paul warned of believers falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils, per 1 Timothy 4:1-2

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 Paul speaks of the falling away from the faith that is to happen in greatly in the latter days before He comes to wit I refer to as the Bridegroom.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 has Paul describing that iniquity as starting even in his days.

This restrainer taken out of the way in verse 7 above's reference is the restraining part of the holy Spirit in those believers that believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation for why and how God permits that strong delusion to come on them in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

Paul reminds believers of the tradition taught of us about how the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth was received at the calling of the gospel in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 to expose that lie about those believers falling away from the faith by thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation.

Now even though these wayward believers are "damned" in 2 Thessalonians 2:12 for which I refer to as the weeds from your quoted reference, we read on how Paul says they are still brothers and thus still saved in the next chapter.

Note how he addresses those believers that fell away from the faith in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 and yet he points out that they are not the enemy to withdraw from them in that manner but to admonish them as brothers still per 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15.

The damned as still saved?

Look at how those who break even the least of His commandments and teach others so are still in His kingdom of Heaven for why they are called the least in Matthew 5:19. Is that not damnation in and of itself although saved?

Then look at how the vessels unto dishonor are vessels of wood as these be the ones that did not depart from iniquity but yet they are still in His House? 2 Timothy 2:20-21

This is why even former believers are still saved so as to be called to depart from iniquity also having that foundation sure as well as that seal of adoption 2 Timothy 2:18-21 for though by words and works ( Titus 1:16 ) they deny Him for why He will deny them ( 2 Timothy 2:11-12 ), BUT if we believe not, He that abides is faithful for He cannot deny Himself in them 2 Timothy 2:13.

So that tells us why they are still saved for He still abides even in former believers left behind as denied by Him as it is written and yet explains this damnation on them as becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House to be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels of wood & earth.

Why are they still in His House and the least as the kingdom of God? They testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name per John 1:12-13 & 1 John 5:1 & 1 John 5:13

So that is why the weeds were not removed entirely from His kingdom because eventually, the Lord will finish the work He has started in those saints left behind even though they wind up damned as vessels unto dishonor & the least in His kingdom..

 

[Randy]

Let us address the weeds as the damned from your quoted reference as growing together with the saved.

Paul warned of believers falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils, per 1 Timothy 4:1-2

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 Paul speaks of the falling away from the faith that is to happen in greatly in the latter days before He comes to wit I refer to as the Bridegroom.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 has Paul describing that iniquity as starting even in his days.

This restrainer taken out of the way in verse 7 above's reference is the restraining part of the holy Spirit in those believers that believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation for why and how God permits that strong delusion to come on them in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

Paul reminds believers of the tradition taught of us about how the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth was received at the calling of the gospel in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 to expose that lie about those believers falling away from the faith by thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation.

Now even though these wayward believers are "damned" in 2 Thessalonians 2:12 for which I refer to as the weeds from your quoted reference, we read on how Paul says they are still brothers and thus still saved in the next chapter.

Note how he addresses those believers that fell away from the faith in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 and yet he points out that they are not the enemy to withdraw from them in that manner but to admonish them as brothers still per 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15.

The damned as still saved?

Look at how those who break even the least of His commandments and teach others so are still in His kingdom of Heaven for why they are called the least in Matthew 5:19. Is that not damnation in and of itself although saved?

Then look at how the vessels unto dishonor are vessels of wood as these be the ones that did not depart from iniquity but yet they are still in His House? 2 Timothy 2:20-21

This is why even former believers are still saved so as to be called to depart from iniquity also having that foundation sure as well as that seal of adoption 2 Timothy 2:18-21 for though by words and works ( Titus 1:16 ) they deny Him for why He will deny them ( 2 Timothy 2:11-12 ), BUT if we believe not, He that abides is faithful for He cannot deny Himself in them 2 Timothy 2:13.

So that tells us why they are still saved for He still abides even in former believers left behind as denied by Him as it is written and yet explains this damnation on them as becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House to be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels of wood & earth.

Why are they still in His House and the least as the kingdom of God? They testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name per John 1:12-13 & 1 John 5:1 & 1 John 5:13

So that is why the weeds were not removed entirely from His kingdom because eventually, the Lord will finish the work He has started in those saints left behind even though they wind up damned as vessels unto dishonor & the least in His kingdom..

I didn't read all that from Jesus's teaching. "People of the evil one" not believers in any sense.
The weeds are the people of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil.

When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ”

The harvest is on the last day. Starting with the weeds.

He didn't say harvest the wheat first then I can pull the weeds up that are left. He said let them grow up together until the harvest.

 

[Golgotha]

I didn't read all that from Jesus's teaching. "People of the evil one" not believers in any sense.
The weeds are the people of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil.

Well, when you consider that some will fall away from the faith and give heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 for why Paul address that falling away in the last days in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 , Paul did address those that fell away as wicked and unreasonable men in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 for why we are commanded by the Lord as in touching us to do this to withdraw from them, BUT not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers. 2 Thessalonians 3:14-5

Jesus talked about those who fell away as following a stranger's voice of which I had discerned as those who seek another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues that comes with no interpretation and so assumed for private use thus following a stranger's voice. John 10:1-5

His sheep follows His voice and yet He spoke of having another fold for why He must bring them ( those that went astray that followed a stranger's voice ) as they will hear His voice literally as the King of kings on earth, after the great tribulation and be of the one fold & one Shepherd. John 10:14-16 Note & discerned verse 16.

So those fallen away from the faith are called wicked and unreasonable men thus evil for why they are the weeds among the wheat. I believe although denied by Him & left behind, they are still saved because they will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels of wood & earth in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:20 )to serve the King of kings on earth.

When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ”

The harvest is on the last day. Starting with the weeds.

He didn't say harvest the wheat first then I can pull the weeds up that are left. He said let them grow up together until the harvest.

Jesus is speaking of the firstfruits of the resurrection which is the first harvest.

There are 3 harvests that will make up the whole of the kingdom of Heaven before the Son gives it back to the Father.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

So the order of the 3 harvests are;

Christ the firstfruits ( note the plural of firstfruits ) = rapture event.

They that be Christ's at His coming; after the great tribulation for their resurrection.

Then those that remain loyal to Christ after Satan is released from the pit after a thousand years to stage a last rebellion for a short season.

I do point out in Matthew 13:33 that this process is hid even though those who diligently seek the scripture can find it with His help.

Wisdom comes from the Lord so feel free to as Him. I do a times. James 1:5

 

[Randy]

Well, when you consider that some will fall away from the faith and give heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 for why Paul address that falling away in the last days in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 , Paul did address those that fell away as wicked and unreasonable men in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 for why we are commanded by the Lord as in touching us to do this to withdraw from them, BUT not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers. 2 Thessalonians 3:14-5

Jesus talked about those who fell away as following a stranger's voice of which I had discerned as those who seek another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues that comes with no interpretation and so assumed for private use thus following a stranger's voice. John 10:1-5

His sheep follows His voice and yet He spoke of having another fold for why He must bring them ( those that went astray that followed a stranger's voice ) as they will hear His voice literally as the King of kings on earth, after the great tribulation and be of the one fold & one Shepherd. John 10:14-16 Note & discerned verse 16.

So those fallen away from the faith are called wicked and unreasonable men thus evil for why they are the weeds among the wheat. I believe although denied by Him & left behind, they are still saved because they will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels of wood & earth in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:20 )to serve the King of kings on earth.

Jesus is speaking of the firstfruits of the resurrection which is the first harvest.

There are 3 harvests that will make up the whole of the kingdom of Heaven before the Son gives it back to the Father.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

So the order of the 3 harvests are;

Christ the firstfruits ( note the plural of firstfruits ) = rapture event.

They that be Christ's at His coming; after the great tribulation for their resurrection.

Then those that remain loyal to Christ after Satan is released from the pit after a thousand years to stage a last rebellion for a short season.

I do point out in Matthew 13:33 that this process is hid even though those who diligently seek the scripture can find it with His help.

Wisdom comes from the Lord so feel free to as Him. I do a times. James 1:5

The Lord stated let the wheat and weeds grow up together until the harvest. He explained the meaning to His disciples. Nothing was hidden and its cohesive with Him returning a 2nd time to usher in everlasting righteousness. Those left alive that are in Christ on that day will be caught up so as to be clothed with immortality for flesh and blood can not inherit the eternity of His kingdom. There is no pretribulation rapture. Since I stated to you the Lord has already made known to me that is the correct understanding He won't be telling me anything different. You are mistaken.

His coming is at the end of the great tribulation and He puts a end to the beasts reign and proclaims judgment in favor of the saints.

REV 16:15
Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

 

[Golgotha]

The Lord stated let the wheat and weeds grow up together until the harvest. He explained the meaning to His disciples. Nothing was hidden and its cohesive with Him returning a 2nd time to usher in everlasting righteousness. Those left alive that are in Christ on that day will be caught up so as to be clothed with immortality for flesh and blood can not inherit the eternity of His kingdom. There is no pretribulation rapture. Since I stated to you the Lord has already made known to me that is the correct understanding He won't be telling me anything different. You are mistaken.

His coming is at the end of the great tribulation and He puts a end to the beasts reign and proclaims judgment in favor of the saints.

REV 16:15
Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

I align that reference with the warning from Jesus to His disciples about the consequences for not abiding in Him to be ready or else; Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8

I point out that He warned the church at Thyatira to repent or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation per Revelation 2:18-25

Since Jesus said He will not cast out any the Father has given Him, nor lose none, John 6:37-40, the only way for all those scripture to align is that those saints left behind are still in His kingdom as those weeds you mentioned becoming the least in the kingdom of heaven per Matthew 5:19 & this vessels unto wood & earth in His House as vessels unto dishonor for not departing from iniquity per 2 Timothy 2:18-21 Note verse 18 about former believers and then note 20 for how even former believers are in His House. if you doubt then read 2 Timothy 2:13

Thanks for sharing, but hopefully you can see why some scripture does not exactly align with how you are applying your reference to mean.

 

[Randy]

I align that reference with the warning from Jesus to His disciples about the consequences for not abiding in Him to be ready or else; Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8

I point out that He warned the church at Thyatira to repent or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation per Revelation 2:18-25

Since Jesus said He will not cast out any the Father has given Him, nor lose none, John 6:37-40, the only way for all those scripture to align is that those saints left behind are still in His kingdom as those weeds you mentioned becoming the least in the kingdom of heaven per Matthew 5:19 & this vessels unto wood & earth in His House as vessels unto dishonor for not departing from iniquity per 2 Timothy 2:18-21 Note verse 18 about former believers and then note 20 for how even former believers are in His House. if you doubt then read 2 Timothy 2:13

Thanks for sharing, but hopefully you can see why some scripture does not exactly align with how you are applying your reference to mean.

Yes, you align the weeds or the children of the evil one with disciples or former disciples of Jesus. I do not nor does what Jesus stated suggest or even hint such reasoning. He was direct and very clear on who the weeds were and that the wheat and weeds would grow together until the harvest which begins with the weeds. My outlook aligns exactly with such a harvest. The saints must endure the reign of the beast which comes to a sudden end at the 2nd coming of the Lord.

 

[Golgotha]

Yes, you align the weeds or the children of the evil one with disciples or former disciples of Jesus. I do not nor does what Jesus stated suggest or even hint such reasoning. He was direct and very clear on who the weeds were and that the wheat and weeds would grow together until the harvest which begins with the weeds. My outlook aligns exactly with such a harvest. The saints must endure the reign of the beast which comes to a sudden end at the 2nd coming of the Lord.

It would be better if you can reprove the scriptural references that I had provided, by rightly dividing the word of truth of what those scriptures was really about, and not what I had applied them to be about for the progress of our discussion since I did address yours.

 

[Randy]

It would be better if you can reprove the scriptural references that I had provided, by rightly dividing the word of truth of what those scriptures was really about, and not what I had applied them to be about for the progress of our discussion since I did address yours.

Nothing you wrote effects or applies to what Jesus taught in Matt 13.
The weeds and the wheat will grow up together until harvest time.
We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Golgotha]

Nothing you wrote effects or applies to what Jesus taught in Matt 13.
The weeds and the wheat will grow up together until harvest time.
We will have to agree to disagree.

I reckon so. We shall leave it up to the Lord to cause the increase down the road.

Thank you for sharing, brother.

 

[DavidT]

I'm definitely Post-Trib, so mark me as such brethren. Anyone that wants help in the Scriptures about it is welcome to ask me.

 

[OzSpen]

I'm definitely Post-Trib, so mark me as such brethren. Anyone that wants help in the Scriptures about it is welcome to ask me.

DavidT,

Mark me down as another supporter of premillennial post-tribulationism. It is supported in verses such as: Matt 24:21 and Acts 8:1-3 (NET).

Oz

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm definitely Post-Trib, so mark me as such brethren. Anyone that wants help in the Scriptures about it is welcome to ask me.

What is your take on Matthew 24:29-31 where Jesus returns on the last day at the ending of the seventh trumpet sounding?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[DavidT]

What is your take on Matthew 24:29-31 where Jesus returns on the last day at the ending of the seventh trumpet sounding?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

It's exactly like you said, Matthew 24:29-31 is about Jesus' return on the last day of this world, which is immediately after the tribulation He pointed to in verse 21. Those who have the hardest time with that simple Scripture are those who are taught to disregard it, those on a false Pre-trib Rapture theory from men.

But just in case you might not know, what Jesus taught there in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 directly parallels what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the event of Christ's coming and gathering of His Church. That is revealed by looking closely at the very last phrase of from where each group is gathered (per Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27). So Apostle Paul was pulling directly from Christ's teaching about the so-called rapture event.

 

[JLB]

I have grown up around churches teaching either supporting a pre tribulation rapture, or if they don’t, they say nothing at all about it. Recently I attended what seemed to be a solid Bible believing church in every aspect. But then I asked the pastor if he believed in a literal 1000 yr reign with Christ. And he didn’t. He didn’t think the rapture was biblical. I was taken back. I was afraid to ask questions because I didn’t want him to sway me from what I believed. We decided to find a different church. We really miss the general teaching but I don’t know what to think about end time stuff anymore. It kind of deflated our balloon that says pre trib. I have no idea what to believe. I can understand there could be parallels that I am missing. I don’t want to miss out on the Kingdom of God at work now. But flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. There must be a point when our bodies are changed.

The Resurrection and Rapture take place at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15




JLB