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I walk in the light now, thanks be to God.
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What is the general consensus on the rapture here?
- Thread starter keptandprotected
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I walk in the light now, thanks be to God.
Consecrated Life
Member
That is all well good & true, but completely evades the specific point you asked me about. and to which I took the time to reply.
Well, I figure that since Jesus said that not even He knows when He's coming back, I shouldn't waste time trying to discern exactly when that time is. There are clues, however, as to the era when He returns.
For me, unless I see a physical temple in Jerusalem, He ain't comin' back yet. I'm not exactly sure if we're in the early stages of the great tribulation, though I do see in this whole Chinese virus mess the beginning of the enemy's attempt to enslave the world under his low-life Anti-Christ.
He'll never learn that YHWH-Elohim is master of every particle in creation, and that he is but a tool in the Master's hand!
Hey, devil, "You've fallen from heaven, O morning star, you're like a corpse trampled underfoot, the grave below is all astir, the devil is thrown into the bottomless pit." He doesn't like it when you say that to him...tough!
For me, unless I see a physical temple in Jerusalem, He ain't comin' back yet. I'm not exactly sure if we're in the early stages of the great tribulation, though I do see in this whole Chinese virus mess the beginning of the enemy's attempt to enslave the world under his low-life Anti-Christ.
He'll never learn that YHWH-Elohim is master of every particle in creation, and that he is but a tool in the Master's hand!
Hey, devil, "You've fallen from heaven, O morning star, you're like a corpse trampled underfoot, the grave below is all astir, the devil is thrown into the bottomless pit." He doesn't like it when you say that to him...tough!
I apologize for not being able to understand what you are looking for.
MoriahsSong
Member
There won't be any more temples.
There have already been 4 temples....
1- The tabernacle in the wilderness
2- Solomon's temple
3- Herod's temple
4- The church is the "temple of God" composed of both Jews and Gentiles
In the Garden of Eden, God spoke directly to Adam.
In the New Jerusalem, God will speak to us as He did with Adam in the beginning.
God caused all the above 3 "temples" to be destroyed. Why? Because man has the tendency to make them into idols. That is why the "Dome of the Rock" (a muslim temple) will remain there until God renews this earth at the end of the ages.
God has said in many verses that "he does not live in houses made by human hands."
(I will have to look up that verse later)
Blade
Member
From what I understand John was talking to Christians who believed they don't sin (tiny short version lol). We all have, live in this sinful nature.. I do understand how some read "its no longer I that sin but sin that is in me".
Anyway.. "general consensus" about Rapture.. its like any other Christian forum. Some are pre some are mid some are post. Myself I live in the moment He gave me.. prepare for tomorrow is wise but watch ready today. Those not watching not ready.. do not believe.. I can not say. He comes.. I am watching and ready PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS!
We don't, if we are walking in the light.
Walking in the light, being sinless enables us to say we have fellowship with God.
Sinners, those walking in darkness, cannot say that.
My sinful nature was destroyed with the rest of me when I was crucified, buried and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
As it is written in Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
I am a new creature now: one with a divine nature.
You had better be walking in the light when He does come.
& keptandprotected OzSpen Hopeful Blade Hidden In Him JLB evenifigoalone Consecrated Life Who Me & crossnote
Added since you were participating in this thread
There are more verses about the rapture than that one.
Luke 21:33-36 has Jesus warning about believers in a time as described as where they are not living in the great tribulation for how the cares of this life can be a snare to them and that they were to pray to be worthy to escape & stand before the Son of Man.
Luke 14:15-24 talks about the King's Supper as those invited were making excuses for the everyday cares of life or a loved one for not going to the King's Supper.
Luke 14:25-35 has often been misapplied as if that is how the disciples is supposed to live down here in giving up loved ones, everything he has, and his life, but it is about being ready & willing to give up our lives down here for when the Bridegroom comes.
Luke 17:26-37 describes the times we live in for why we are to be always ready to go, in leaving our lives behind as Lot's wife was mentioned as a warning against loving anything in this life to not want to leave when He comes. Verse 37 has a Greek word "sunago" for how they were being taken with hospitality to resort in & to be entertained and "aeros" for wing-like flight describing the manner the rapture.
Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8 has Jesus warning about not abiding in Him & His words as His disciples for why a saved believer would be cut off or cast away.
Paul warned that could happen to himself and not just lose the rewards of crowns if he did not continually bring his body under subjection; 1 Corinthians 9:24-27.
That day in Luke 12:49 is that day in 1 Corinthians 3:13 for wen God will judge His House and every believer at the rapture event per 1 Peter 4:17-19 but verse 19 in the KJV has the clear message that He is faithful to keep the souls of His saints that suffer getting left behind. 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 testify that if anyone defiles the temple of God, they will be destroyed; hence die a physical death in verses 16-17 but their spirits are still saved per verse 15.
God warned this church in Revelation 2:18-25 that they will be judged by their works with death if they did not repent and thus wind up being cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation.
There are 2 kinds of inheritance or 2 kinds of vessels in the kingdom of God per 2 Timothy 2:18-21 for why former believers are still called to repent so they can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven ( 2 Timothy 2:10-13 ) for even if we believe not, He is faithful for He still abides in us per verse 13 even after being denied by Him in verse 12. Otherwise, if they do not repent with His help, they get left behind to die, their spirits with the Lord, waiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House. Those vessel unto dishonor are those of wood & earth see verse 20 as they are in His House still, testifying to the power of God in salvation for all those that had believed in Him at one time, even in His name.
So the rapture event is God judging His House. Jesus's warnings applies to us now in these latter days to be ready rather than at the end of the great tribulation. If you consider why the church is to excommunicate an unrepentant brother, that is why God will do it too, because the seating at the Marriage Supper table has to be done in fellowship in sincerity & in truth and without wickedness & the malice. 1 Corinthians 5:4-11 for why we are not to eat with unrepentant believers.
I know Jesus promised no casting out for all those that come to Him in John 6:37-40 and yet this warning is given about discipleship to be fruitful in living this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ per John 15:1-8 & Luke 12:40-49. So the only way to align these truths is that those left behind are still saved. They were cast out from attending the Marriage Supper but not out of His kingdom because they will serve the King of kings on earth after being resurrected after the great tribulation.
So there is a race to be run by faith in Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily for the high prize of our calling to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House. Hebrews 12:1-2
2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.2 Peter 3rd chapter is what Peter meant for enduring to the end to be saved; not for salvation in Jesus Christ, but to be saved from that fiery calamity coming on the third of the earth ( Revelations 8:7 ) after the rapture event. Enduring is not a work when we are relying on Him as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him all the way to our future mansions in the City of God in Heaven above. John 14:1-3
So there are a lot of verses for the rapture event to be before the great tribulation for why Jesus was and is warning believers & His disciples to be ready or else.
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Thanks for sharing your perspective. While I agree with some of what you are saying, there is a balance to these things. Many people do believe that all what Jesus taught is important. While we shouldn't obsess over one subject so that we ignore the rest, we also shouldn't dismiss any of His teachings as non essential.
If people understand what Jesus will expect of us when He returns, it may help motivate them to get busy serving Him everyday as if it was their last.
“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51
JLB
The rapture is basically the resurrection of people who are alive and remain at the coming of the Lord.
The rapture occurs after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16
I agree, but the post I was replying to implied that 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16 was the only reference in regards to that rapture event. So more scripture came into play for why the rapture is an event for when God will judge His House first before the great tribulation comes. It is why Jesus was warning saved believers to be ready or else.
Like in church, if a believer refuse to repent, the church is to excommunicate that believer until he repents or else this.
1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Since this be true below for maintaining fellowship & to eat with fellow abiding believers, so will it be in Heaven for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.
1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
So we can see this in His warning to this church in Revelation to repent or else..
Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
So the rapture event is when God judges His House because not every one will be found abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes to be qualified to be taken to go.
The rapture, as was being discussed, is a specific idea relating to all believers being removed from the earth prior to judgment. This idea comes from 1 Thess 4:17. None of the passages you provided support that idea, it has to be read into those passages first.& keptandprotected OzSpen Hopeful Blade Hidden In Him JLB evenifigoalone Consecrated Life Who Me & crossnote
Added since you were participating in this thread
There are more verses about the rapture than that one.
Luke 21:33-36 has Jesus warning about believers in a time as described as where they are not living in the great tribulation for how the cares of this life can be a snare to them and that they were to pray to be worthy to escape & stand before the Son of Man.
Luke 14:15-24 talks about the King's Supper as those invited were making excuses for the everyday cares of life or a loved one for not going to the King's Supper.
Luke 14:25-35 has often been misapplied as if that is how the disciples is supposed to live down here in giving up loved ones, everything he has, and his life, but it is about being ready & willing to give up our lives down here for when the Bridegroom comes.
Luke 17:26-37 describes the times we live in for why we are to be always ready to go, in leaving our lives behind as Lot's wife was mentioned as a warning against loving anything in this life to not want to leave when He comes. Verse 37 has a Greek word "sunago" for how they were being taken with hospitality to resort in & to be entertained and "aeros" for wing-like flight describing the manner the rapture.
Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8 has Jesus warning about not abiding in Him & His words as His disciples for why a saved believer would be cut off or cast away.
Paul warned that could happen to himself and not just lose the rewards of crowns if he did not continually bring his body under subjection; 1 Corinthians 9:24-27.
That day in Luke 12:49 is that day in 1 Corinthians 3:13 for wen God will judge His House and every believer at the rapture event per 1 Peter 4:17-19 but verse 19 in the KJV has the clear message that He is faithful to keep the souls of His saints that suffer getting left behind. 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 testify that if anyone defiles the temple of God, they will be destroyed; hence die a physical death in verses 16-17 but their spirits are still saved per verse 15.
God warned this church in Revelation 2:18-25 that they will be judged by their works with death if they did not repent and thus wind up being cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation.
There are 2 kinds of inheritance or 2 kinds of vessels in the kingdom of God per 2 Timothy 2:18-21 for why former believers are still called to repent so they can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven ( 2 Timothy 2:10-13 ) for even if we believe not, He is faithful for He still abides in us per verse 13 even after being denied by Him in verse 12. Otherwise, if they do not repent with His help, they get left behind to die, their spirits with the Lord, waiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House. Those vessel unto dishonor are those of wood & earth see verse 20 as they are in His House still, testifying to the power of God in salvation for all those that had believed in Him at one time, even in His name.
So the rapture event is God judging His House. Jesus's warnings applies to us now in these latter days to be ready rather than at the end of the great tribulation. If you consider why the church is to excommunicate an unrepentant brother, that is why God will do it too, because the seating at the Marriage Supper table has to be done in fellowship in sincerity & in truth and without wickedness & the malice. 1 Corinthians 5:4-11 for why we are not to eat with unrepentant believers.
I know Jesus promised no casting out for all those that come to Him in John 6:37-40 and yet this warning is given about discipleship to be fruitful in living this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ per John 15:1-8 & Luke 12:40-49. So the only way to align these truths is that those left behind are still saved. They were cast out from attending the Marriage Supper but not out of His kingdom because they will serve the King of kings on earth after being resurrected after the great tribulation.
So there is a race to be run by faith in Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily for the high prize of our calling to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House. Hebrews 12:1-2
2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
2 Peter 3rd chapter is what Peter meant for enduring to the end to be saved; not for salvation in Jesus Christ, but to be saved from that fiery calamity coming on the third of the earth ( Revelations 8:7 ) after the rapture event. Enduring is not a work when we are relying on Him as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him all the way to our future mansions in the City of God in Heaven above. John 14:1-3
So there are a lot of verses for the rapture event to be before the great tribulation for why Jesus was and is warning believers & His disciples to be ready or else.
Heaven “comes” to earth in Revelation, so for believers to be removed makes little sense. Jesus will come to judge, at which point unbelievers will be thrown into Hell and believers will remain with Christ in his kingdom, and so spend eternity.
And yet what are those passages talking about? If you cannot answer that, then maybe you can see they apply with His help
If you consider that Jesus is preparing a mansion for each of His disciples that are abiding in Him to His Father's House, hence the City of God, then you may see the citizenship of that City of God as the Lamb's wife hat comes down from Heaven.
I see this reference below as the rapture event in regards to the inhabiters of Heaven and woe to those left behind.
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Note how the angel shows John, the Lamb's wife, which happens to be the City of God in Heaven that descends from Heaven to earth..
Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
If you compare Zechariah 14:1-5 & Revelations 20:1-6, Jesus sets foot down on the Mount of Olives in coming back with the saints to do battle against the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:1-5 but in Revelation 20:1-6, Satan is defeated and in the pit for a thousand years before the resurrection of those saints that specifically described as having died in the great tribulation. That means Jesus is already on earth after having defeated the world's armies & Satan being in the pit before that resurrection takes place. Jesus is not meeting those resurrected saints in the air.
Not to mention the waning in the Book of Revelation about taking any word out of that Book will cost that believer "his part" but not his name out of the Book of Life which is really his part in the city of God. Like the prodigal son that loses his first inheritance for being in that unrepented iniquity.
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 3:5 testifies a double negative that Jesus would never blot out any name out of the Book of Life for why his part will be taken out for doing that in verse 19.
So unrepentant believers can be found to be left behind as this warning was given to the church at Thyatira in Revelation 2:18-25
That is why Jesus is warning His disciples to be ready or else. Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8
Now if you wish to take the scripture a post at a time or take one long post and explain to me what that scripture is about in applying rightly the word of truth, I am open for that discussion, but saved believers can be left behind for unrepentant iniquity to be resurrected later on after the great tribulation.
Again, the idea of the “rapture” as was being discussed is a very specific, popular idea which none of your verses address. The only verse which the popular idea is based on is 1 Thess 4:17.
Yet you said:
"Heaven “comes” to earth in Revelation, so for believers to be removed makes little sense."
Feel free to tell me what those other verses address, if it is not that rapture event for how that City in Heaven has inhabitants that were raptured.
The onus is on you to show how they apply to the idea of the rapture as was being discussed. You merely said they applied but you haven’t shown how. It seems as though your idea of the rapture is different anyway.
Scripture was shared with comments so it is on God to cause the increase from this point on.
Thank you for sharing anyway, but it is His ministry to convince; not mine.
But it is on you to show that you have understood the text correctly and that it applies to the discussion. Your comments do not show this to be the case.
I should point out that your comments support my point. You are arguing to a very different idea of "rapture" than what is popularly understood and what is being discussed in this thread. They all seem to fall under the categories of judgement and the coming of the kingdom of God/the second coming of Jesus, not the rapture.