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Bible Study What is the human soul?

I have been taught Baptist doctrine. Graduated from a Baptist Bible College. Was the pastor of three Baptist Churches. I'm proud of my Baptist heritage traced back to the Ana-Baptist movement....I have always believed that in hell, there are different levels of punishment, just like there are different levels of reward in heaven. I can see Hitler being tormented forever and ever without cease. For those who rejected Jesus Jesus but were nice little old ladies, separation from God would be terrible. I know this is naive but I've tried to keep things simple like a child. like a dumb sheep.

Whatever happens to the unsaved, I'll never know because I'll not be there. I will continue to evangelize because if the lost experience the lake of fire for 10 years and be gone or for an eternity, I'm not concerned! I will evangelize.

I'll leave this subject to you guys that know a lot more than I do. I am, among other things a Christian psychologist. I must say that the Lord has richly blessed that part of my servant hood. So I'll probably stay out of the posting and do my moderating of this thread.
 
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jasoncran said:
Comment deleted Where is the earth and what is dwelling on the earth if its bad to have flesh? the bible doesn't support the idea of eternity as angels nor spirits. where is god in revalation 22?

do we fully understand what the body will be like no? but we will have one.
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Comment deleted
Where do you interpret that it's bad to have flesh from the verse I posted?

As for what the bible supports. Your answer lies in the verses below.

1 Corinthians 15
35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”
36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain.
38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

<snip>

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the earth,made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.


I don't claim to have all the answers. All I have are the scriptures. Comment deleted

.
 
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Chopper said:
OK Guys, even though I'm involved in this thread, I must step in and caution everyone that is involved in this thread. The name calling and derogatory statements must stop......TIME OUT!.....Lets gather our selves and remember that Jesus through the Holy Spirit is in each one of us. To insult one is to insult Jesus in that one.

I love you all and right now, after studying all that is written, I'm going back to what I've always believed. So I don't want to be an object of one side wanting me on their side or visa versa.
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Comment deleted

If what I'm saying is untrue, I want to know it. I want to see the Bible Passage that says "When a wicked person dies, he goes to Hell where he will be tortured alive forever while he is dead". And I also need to see the verse from Paul that says "Oh, Romans 6:23? I was just kidding when I wrote that. Everyone knows that death doesn't really mean death". I don't think that is written in the Bible.

I want you to believe what you think is true, because I don't think it's possible for anyone to believe something they don't think is true. I want you to believe what you think is true, even if you and I disagree. Comment deleted
 
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TimothyW said:
Comment deleted If what I'm saying is untrue, I want to know it. I want to see the Bible Passage that says "When a wicked person dies, he goes to Hell where he will be tortured alive forever while he is dead". And I also need to see the verse from Paul that says "Oh, Romans 6:23? I was just kidding when I wrote that. Everyone knows that death doesn't really mean death". I don't think that is written in the Bible.

I want you to believe what you think is true, because I don't think it's possible for anyone to believe something they don't think is true. I want you to believe what you think is true, even if you and I disagree. Comment deleted
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I understand Tim. Right now I'm just going to take it all in. I must say that on one of your posts, the one that I said after, Oh Oh, I felt a peace hit me that I felt was the Holy Spirit. It was a feeling of joy. I try not to base my theology on feelings but this was a familiar feeling. I hope that this thread can go on with facts from Scripture and from the past few centuries of Apostolic Fathers. I think we all can eventually come to a conclusion.
 
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Gary said:
Comment deleted

Where do you interpret that it's bad to have flesh from the verse I posted?

As for what the bible supports. Your answer lies in the verses below.

1 Corinthians 15
35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”
36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain.
38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

<snip>

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the earth,made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.


I don't claim to have all the answers. All I have are the scriptures. Comment deleted

.
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I guess that theres a "spiritual" earth

For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
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note that's says new heavens and earth. so theres a spiritual earth? that is well in the Talmud and well tog almost said something of that sort.it all depends ones view. this is the messianic era. if were are in that then we are in the new heaven and new earth but that doesn't fit that well. why? satan hasn't been judged.

isiah 66. we are also "spiritual" already, but then again do you believe do you not in the idea of an eternal soul
 
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the image of the heavenly man? what image was last seen? a fleshly one. did jesus have a body? yes he did.

job also mentions with mine eyes shall I see the lord. do "spirits" have eyes?
I don't believe in the idea of the earth, and all of creation being done away with. the temple in revalation 21 comes from heaven to earth. what exactly is the earth then if it doesn't exist? I was taught that we will have body of flesh by numerous times.

https://calvaryabq.org/Merchant2/me...&Store_Code=CALVARY&Category_Code=MP3_B46_1CO

I know that he has taught there will be bodily resurrection. its in my churchs sof.

you are the first to teach that we wont have a bodily resurrection.

http://20thavechurchofgod.com/site/pom.asp?sec_id=180010760

the idea that you must believe in the return and bodily resurrection is required to a member of this church.im not a futurists. I don't believe in a rapture like that, im amil. they know. I hide nothing.
 
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jasoncran said:
the image of the heavenly man? what image was last seen? a fleshly one. did jesus have a body? yes he did.

job also mentions with mine eyes shall I see the lord. do "spirits" have eyes?
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I don't know Jason, you tell me.

John 4
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
 
Gary said:
I don't know Jason, you tell me.

John 4
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
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NO. god doesn't see like we do. its a metaphor to relate. that is jewish thought. god doesn't literally have arms and legs. if it did he cant be everywhere. god is omninscient. its called the anthropic words. it means god uses what we know to relate.

I can go into that . jesus does have have limbs or is he a lamb with seven heads and seven eyes?

5 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
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revalation 5. all visions of God are Not of the father. but of Jesus.
 
jasoncran said:
I don't believe in the idea of the earth, and all of creation being done away with. the temple in revalation 21 comes from heaven to earth. what exactly is the earth then if it doesn't exist?
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It's funny you should mention chapter 21.

Revelation 21
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.


2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

.
 
Gary said:
It's funny you should mention chapter 21.

Revelation 21
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.


2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

.
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this new heaveans and earth what will it be? earth aint the same as heaven. and well im not one to believe that literally. a literal fire cant do squat to the sun. it wont. the bible also says that the sun and moon shall remain forever in isiah. so which is it?

is the new sun, not a sun? theres no shabat that is marked by the sun's movements?

http://www.crpc.org/

that pastor believes as I do, in fact I got my idea of the new Jerusalem and purging of fire being a statement of god cleansing sin but not destroying the earth.
 
the sea isn't always the sea in all contexts. a literal beast or any government doenst rise from the sea to rule people. in that context it means the nations. in this context I take it as something else. I would have to research that.

I will state my bias. im a preterist. preterists don't believe in that as futurists do. often they see that verse in as:

1) the removal of the temple as in jewry that the heavens and the earth is where the temple of Jerusalem is. it was destroyed by fire and the new way to god was fully established by that act, a sign to the jews.
2) or an allegory meaning the end of time and no more sin with a new body with a cleansed earth sin free. the pre fall earth wasn't cursed.
3) it is literal and the end of time. amil position on that and many fall here

I am with number 2, while I understand the arguments for number one, and can see that.
 
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since you believe that literally. tell me what this means?

if its after the judgment? idk theres much Idk.

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
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why would one need to be healed if the lord has raised us and all men from death?
 
Dear brethren: Chopper Gary jasoncran TimothyW -
I am going back a couple pages to edit out unnecessary snarky comments, name calling or whatever else I find that I don't like. Please remember that this "Bible Study" is not a debate forum; polite discussion is my understanding, and remember that regardless of our differences in doctrine or thought we remain brethren in the Lord.

Edited comments will be just that without explanation.
Thanks and blessings in Christ Jesus. :)
 
Chopper said:
I have been taught Baptist doctrine. Graduated from a Baptist Bible College. Was the pastor of three Baptist Churches. I'm proud of my Baptist heritage traced back to the Ana-Baptist movement....I have always believed that in hell, there are different levels of punishment, just like there are different levels of reward in heaven. I can see Hitler being tormented forever and ever without cease. For those who rejected Jesus Jesus but were nice little old ladies, separation from God would be terrible. I know this is naive but I've tried to keep things simple like a child. like a dumb sheep.

Whatever happens to the unsaved, I'll never know because I'll not be there. I will continue to evangelize because if the lost experience the lake of fire for 10 years and be gone or for an eternity, I'm not concerned! I will evangelize.

I'll leave this subject to you guys that know a lot more than I do. I am, among other things a Christian psychologist. I must say that the Lord has richly blessed that part of my servant hood. So I'll probably stay out of the posting and do my moderating of this thread.
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I have always thought that this is very possible to have different levels of punishment in hell.With God's mercy and grace that makes sense.But I am afraid it will all be bad.
 
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