Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

What is the 'mark' of a True Christian

I guess if one is simply looking for 'jesus loves you' then my posts ARE rather 'long'. But IF one were to READ them, they would find wisdom and truth beyond that which the carnal is able to offer OR understand. Perhaps that is the PROBLEM.

And this is NOT pride, this is someone that has been about as DEEP as one can FALL being 'brought back' with NO 'effort' of 'his own'.

I am in complete AWE of the amazing grace that is obtainable through our Father. The ONE who loves us more than we can imagine. The one that created us IN HIS IMAGE and has GIVEN us MORE than anyone could expect from ANYTING that they KNOW of this world.

I have been given NOTHING BUT love. I attempt to offer it in UNDERSTANDING only to be attacked at every turn. Do my words SO offend that they are worthy of ridicule? I offer NOTHING other than what has been 'given to me'. MOST of what I offer is NOT 'my understanding'. Just a FEW years ago I would have LAUGHED at the words that I now offer JUST as some of YOU. I guess I shouldn't expect ANY MORE from those that continually deny and refute what I have to offer. For I was ONCE 'just as YOU'. But when one comes to a 'Christian' forum, one would ASSUME that those that participate WOULD BE 'Christians', (and I practically detest this word; Christian. For it offers NOTHING so far as TRUTH is concerned in this day and age).

So, I WILL offer this: I cannot BELIEVE that I was LED here for ANY OTHER purpose than that there may be JUST ONE that is TRULY seeking the LOVE that God has to offer. One that IS as LOST as I WAS and NEEDS to KNOW that there IS a 'better way'. A way that is NOT 'created' by men and that has the ability to offer TRUTH beyond the comprehension of MOST. A truly SAVING grace that is OFFERED FREELY. All that it TAKES is the WILL to accept it.

But alas, NOTHING that is 'thrown at me' compares to BEING LOST. For I have suffered in the past things indiscribable to any that have NOT experienced the SAME. And perhaps it is BECAUSE I have experienced the darkest and most hopeless of situations that I was ABLE to submit to The Spirit. I don't know. But I can offer this: from the lack of ability of those to which I attempt to communicate with here on this forum, it appears that MOST are here to simply debate or argue and TRUTH has LITTLE bearing on their DESIRE to UNDERSTAND anything any more complex than their desire for 'attention'. Unable to even discuss such issues as Salvation without it being 'just TOO deep' and TOO serious to be taken for anything other than a JOKE.

You folks can't imagine how it PAINS me to SEE how utterly LOST some truly are. Through our WORDS are we to BE JUDGED folks. Through that which we VERBALLY and Spiritually ACCEPT or DENY, WE WILL BE JUDGED. Christ attempted to offer JUST how important our WORDS are. The apostles tried to paint a vivid picture of JUST HOW POTENT our speach REALLY IS. And it seems that so many have learned to READ the words but are UNABLE to understand what they have READ.

I have attempted just about every means that I can imagine to communicate and it seems that MOST have been ineffectual. Unable to SAY anything that is able to offer ANYTHING but 'useless information to most'.

We were discussing HERE the 'mark' of a TRUE Christian. It seems that there are FEW if any that even understand the question. That 'some' would rather offer bits and pieces of 'hatred' rather than actually discuss the issue or perhaps even LEARN something is totally incomprehendable to ME.

Talk is CHEAP folks. So Cheap in fact that ANYONE that has vocal cords and an IQ of over about seventeen is able to DO IT. But WHAT have you TRULY to say? Got anything GOOD? Truly RIGHTEOUS. Or just sarcasm and personal witicism? Anything that has to do with EDIFICATION? Anything that concerns your LOVE for God or your neighbor? Anything that is able to offer understanding or UNITY of your brothers and sisters. Or just the SAME ole ridicule of that which IS able to offer understanding and edification of those WILLING to accept it?

I thought that there were some real YO YO's on here in the past. But it has become apparent in recent days that MOST that WERE here that were TRULY here to offer that which MATTERS have abandoned the boat for lack of Spirit. For what I witness NOW are simply those that wish to ARGUE for the simple sake of THAT. Not LOOKING or offering ANYTHING other than their OWN selfish desires.

Those that do NOT fit into this description, you KNOW that I am NOT talking to YOU. But to those that would simply invade such a site for the intent of personal edification at the expense of the benefit of others, you TOO know who I am refering to. God Bless you. May He SOMEHOW open your eyes and your hearts so that you are ABLE to SEE and FEEL what it TRULY means to KNOW and LOVE God, your Father. Forgive them Father, for they KNOW NOT what they do...............

What's left?..............

MEC
 
Imagican said:
I guess if one is simply looking for 'jesus loves you' then my posts ARE rather 'long'. But IF one were to READ them, they would find wisdom and truth beyond that which the carnal is able to offer OR understand....

I thought a CARNAL being DID offer those posts
 
Catholic Crusader said:
Imagican said:
I guess if one is simply looking for 'jesus loves you' then my posts ARE rather 'long'. But IF one were to READ them, they would find wisdom and truth beyond that which the carnal is able to offer OR understand....

I thought a CARNAL being DID offer those posts

CC, you are UNABLE to alter that which is UNALTERABLE. Your slander of the Spirit will NOT go unrewarded I can assure you.

That you are UNABLE to 'see' anything other than your OWN reflection is due to your inability to SUBMIT to The Spirit that COULD guide you to an 'understanding' that MATTERS. So long as you 'choose' to be 'confused' and 'hateful' there is LITTLE that The Spirit HAS to offer. But don't feel like the LONE RANGER. For you are but 'one of many'. You WON'T be 'alone'.

And I suppose that it was your 'Baptism' that has allowed you to exhitbit the 'spirit' that you DO. What a 'weak' testimony indeed for the 'religion' that you would attempt to convince others IS TRUTH. For what you offer is NOTHING other than what 'your church' has been offering for around 2 thousand years now. Attempting to TEACH but unable to even 'see' the TRUTH.

So, once again, my attempts at communication or edification of my brothers and sisters has been 'hi-jacked' by, (what you must think are witty comments), in an attempt, (I guess), to offer us a glimpse of what LIES in your heart. But WHAT is it exactly that WE SEE?

MEC
 
Funny but if it wasn't for the Catholic church's compiling of the bible itself, no one here would even have one. There would be no Christianity and we wouldn't be having these forums. The Catholic church gave you your bibles. All of you. I think everyone here should thank her for preserving and protecting it all these years, 2,000 of them. Even if it meant excommunicating people (Luther), who try and changed the word of God. (And he did succeed in his German version).
 
Imagican said:
CC, you are UNABLE to alter that which is UNALTERABLE. Your slander of the Spirit will NOT go unrewarded I can assure you....

Oh stop with the drama. You wrote:

...my posts ARE rather 'long'. But IF one were to READ them, they would find wisdom and truth beyond that which the carnal is able to offer OR understand...

For someone who denies Papal Infallibility, that's some pretty high-falutin' language to grace ones' self with.

Just because I take issue with your post does not mean I "slander the Spirit". You ain't the Holy Spirit, you know.
 
Righteousone said:
Funny but if it wasn't for the Catholic church's compiling of the bible itself, no one here would even have one. There would be no Christianity and we wouldn't be having these forums. The Catholic church gave you your bibles. All of you. I think everyone here should thank her for preserving and protecting it all these years, 2,000 of them. Even if it meant excommunicating people (Luther), who try and changed the word of God. (And he did succeed in his German version).
Thank God yes ...but not the RCC. Would you guys please get over your boastful attitude.
They probably started in good faith, but soon began rubbing shoulders with pagans and adopting some of there ways, merging them into their doctrine. That is the mistake they made. Good intensions, but just didn't work out. :-D
 
Catholic Crusader said:
images


Men did this.
The Holy Spirit did that! Shame on you! :-D
 
CatholicXian said:
Free said:
Marks and seals are two different things.
Not entirely. The only analogy I can think of would be a wax letter seal. The seal itself is a mark, but it also leaves a stain (an indelible mark) on the paper it seals. Even if you peel off the wax itself (reject the life of grace), the stain still remains and can never be "washed out".

I will grant that they are not exactly the same, but they are so intertwined it's hard to separate them.

Free could have a point. And you also. Interesting.

Rev 7:3
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
KJV

Rev 13:16
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
KJV
:-D
 
GraceBwithU said:
Catholic Crusader said:
images


Men did this.
The Holy Spirit did that! Shame on you! :-D

I was hoping you'd take the bait. The Holy Spirit wrote it THROUGH MEN. The Bible did not grow on a tree. Men wrote it guided by the Holy Spirit. And since the Bible is INFALLIBLE, that means God caused MEN to write an INFALLIBLE DOCUMENT. Ergo, the fact that God can cause men to be infallible when He wills it is proven by the very existence of the Bible.

Thanks for the assist. :-D
 
Righteousone said:
Funny but if it wasn't for the Catholic church's compiling of the bible itself, no one here would even have one. There would be no Christianity and we wouldn't be having these forums. The Catholic church gave you your bibles. All of you. I think everyone here should thank her for preserving and protecting it all these years, 2,000 of them. Even if it meant excommunicating people (Luther), who try and changed the word of God. (And he did succeed in his German version).

You MAY be ABLE to convince those that are COMPLETELY ignorant of the truth of such a slanderous, and blasphemous remark. But those that ARE aware of the TRUTH know perfectly WELL that had it been up to the CC the laiety STILL would have NO access to The Bible.

And SPEAKING of blasphemy of The Holy Spirit, you would actually HAVE the audacity to state OPENLY that God is UNABLE to provide for His children that which HE chooses to OFFER? Father, forgive him, for he KNOWS NOT what HE DOES............

No, there is NO thanks to be given to those that would treat their brothers and sisters as POORLY and inhumanely as history bears out the SINS of the Catholic Church. If ANYTHING, the Catholic Church should be BEGGING the forgiveness of their brothers and sisters and living in FEAR and TREMBLING for the consequences that they will SURELY face upon judgement.

And PRESERVATION? What a JOKE. The Catholic Church did EVERY THING in it's power to alter ANY and EVERYTHING within The Word and within the domains of their DOMINATION for well over a THOUSAND years. Since their dominion included the ABILITY to DENY The Word to those that they DOMINATED, there was LITTLE NEED to alter The Word as MUCH as they most likely WOULD have if they had KNOWN that it was INEVITABLE that it would one day be obtainable by the laiety.

Shame on you, my brother. If this 'darkness of one's heart' you have offered is through the spirit that the Catholic Church CLAIMS as their 'guide', then NO wonder it is SO LOST. For you continually choose to offer NOTHING of ANY sort of edification other than to YOURSELF. Totally ignoring the implications of your WORDS or perhaps with COMPLETE and utter INTENTION of causing derision between yourself and others.

All that's LEFT to say to you is MAY the Spirit of God somehow OPEN your eyes and HEART so that you are ABLE to accept and benefit from the LOVE that God has to offer. And for this cause, THEN perhaps you would be ABLE to offer 'some' of this SAME love to your brothers and sisters.

God BLESS you CC,

MEC
 
Catholic Crusader said:
GraceBwithU said:
[quote="Catholic Crusader":433d4]
images


Men did this.
The Holy Spirit did that! Shame on you! :-D

I was hoping you'd take the bait. The Holy Spirit wrote it THROUGH MEN. The Bible did not grow on a tree. Men wrote it guided by the Holy Spirit. And since the Bible is INFALLIBLE, that means God caused MEN to write an INFALLIBLE DOCUMENT. Ergo, the fact that God can cause men to be infallible when He wills it is proven by the very existence of the Bible.

Thanks for the assist. :-D[/quote:433d4]

NOT a 'single' BOOK of the Bible was WRITTEN by ANYONE in Rome. Translated? Perhaps, but even the ACCURACY of THAT is questionable. Infallible? Only when one is LED by The Spirit. For it would TAKE The Spirit to LEAD one past the alteration from transcripts that the RCC attempted to alter in IT'S favor concerning DOCTRINE.

MEC
 
I am at a LOSS here. I thought that RCC discussion was to be 'confined' or 'limited' to "THEIR OWN' discussion ROOM.

It seems that there are 'some' that have come to this forum to simply 'stir up' a DISTINCT violation of the 'rules of this forum'.

I thought that we were NOT ALLOWED TO attempt to PUSH ANY particular denomination. That this was NOT an 'evangelism' website for the CATHOLIC CHURCH or ANY other than The Church of Christ. I thought that this was supose to be a 'gathering' place for CHIRSTIANS to discuss issues relating to CHRIST and His Father. I certainly didn't realize that it was allowing such "hi-jacking" by A particular denomination. And those that have already been TOLD that this is NOT a 'Catholic forum' but a CHRISTIAN forum.

Do you folks NOW realize that their DOCTRINE and DOGMA TEACHES that; WE who are NOT members of THEIR faith are NOT able to BE Christians?

So, is this conduct to be allowed to continue to be SO onesided that WE are NOT able to DEFEND ourselves AGAINST such outright SLANDER of God, His Son and the Holy Spirit?

MEC
 
Imagican said:
Do you folks NOW realize that their DOCTRINE and DOGMA TEACHES that; WE who are NOT members of THEIR faith are NOT able to BE Christians?
This is untrue.
 
Imagican said:
NOT a 'single' BOOK of the Bible was WRITTEN by ANYONE in Rome. Translated? Perhaps, but even the ACCURACY of THAT is questionable. Infallible? Only when one is LED by The Spirit. For it would TAKE The Spirit to LEAD one past the alteration from transcripts that the RCC attempted to alter in IT'S favor concerning DOCTRINE.

Who said anything about Rome? I was merely establishing the principle that the very existence of the Bible PROVES that God can AND HAS held men infallible.

And the Pope and Bishops WERE led by the Spirit, WHEN THEY CANONIZED THE VERY NEW TESTAMENT THAT YOU QUOTE AD INFINITUM.

Now let us not derail the thread any further.
 
CatholicXian said:
Imagican said:
Do you folks NOW realize that their DOCTRINE and DOGMA TEACHES that; WE who are NOT members of THEIR faith are NOT able to BE Christians?
This is untrue.

Yes, it is VERY untrue. I shall quote the Catechism concerning non-Catholics:

CCC 818 - "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

CCC 819 - "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation.....
source link: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1 ... art9p3.htm
 
Imagican said:
Righteousone said:
Funny but if it wasn't for the Catholic church's compiling of the bible itself, no one here would even have one. There would be no Christianity and we wouldn't be having these forums. The Catholic church gave you your bibles. All of you. I think everyone here should thank her for preserving and protecting it all these years, 2,000 of them. Even if it meant excommunicating people (Luther), who try and changed the word of God. (And he did succeed in his German version).

You MAY be ABLE to convince those that are COMPLETELY ignorant of the truth of such a slanderous, and blasphemous remark. But those that ARE aware of the TRUTH know perfectly WELL that had it been up to the CC the laiety STILL would have NO access to The Bible.....

Righteousone spoke the truth, if a bit bluntly. The scribes of the Church preserved the Bible for centuries.

And the Church never prevented people from reading the Bible. Not to mention the fact that before the invetion of the priniting press there were hardly any Bibles anyway, and hardly any people who could read even if there were. That is an historic fact most people seem to forget - the illiteracy of almost everyone for centuries. What is an inlliterate uneducated peasant going to do with a big book?
 
CatholicXian said:
Imagican said:
Do you folks NOW realize that their DOCTRINE and DOGMA TEACHES that; WE who are NOT members of THEIR faith are NOT able to BE Christians?
This is untrue.

CatholicXian,

No offense meant and perhaps YOU have allowed yourself to be blinded to the truth by the subtle insincere words offered by the CC TODAY. For they will 'twist' words in order to 'make it sound' like they accept their 'brothers and sisters' OUTSIDE Of their faith AS brothers and sisters, but this is ONLY a guise developed in order to KEEP from being SEEN as they TRULY ARE.

The ONLY way in which what I have offered is NOT true is that the Catholic Church teaches that, even though those that they ADMIT; may BE followers of Christ, ARE a 'part of the CATHLOLIC CHURCH but simply DON'T acknowledge it or KNOW it.

I, for one, am NOT blind to the words used by the Catholic Church in an attempt to beguile those that they TEACH or those that they ACCUSE.

The dogma and doctrine OF the CATHOLIC CHURCH bears out the witness that I have offered. And your 'fellow church members' make it PERFECTLY clear in their POMPOUS statements that THEY do NOT believe that ANY others are ABLE to BE 'saved' without an acceptance of the teachings of the CC.

You are a rather patient and wise individual. I offer you acknowledgement in this respect. I offer NOTHING with the PURPOSE to offend. I can assure you that I DO NOT hold your 'faith' AGAINST you. You believe what you have been led to believe. I am UNABLE to discern whether that is ENOUGH or NOT. That is not even my commission to make decisions on such issues. Our COMMISSION is to offer our witness and example. PERIOD. Some are MORE gifted than others and that TOO is NOT for US to judge the REASON behind such offerings. Ours is to simply ACCEPT what we have been given and offer accordingly.

But all that it takes to understand the 'beliefs' of the Catholic Church is to READ. Regardless of their 'veiled attempts' to alter what they have taught for HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of years, the TRUTH speaks for itself and WE ARE ABLE to discern the TRUTH through Word and Spirit. God will NOT leave those that TRULY love HIm and their neighbors IGNORANT of that which is ABLE to SEPARATE THEM from The Church of CHRIST.

But from what the CC offers, this is NOT so. For what God has offered IS the CC to guide and correct us. That we MUST submit to the infalibility of the Pope. We MUST follow Catholic doctrine or we are 'OUTSIDE' of God's grace and basically LOST souls.

You can 'candy coat' it in whatever 'flavor' that you wish but the TRUTH speaks MUCH louder than attempts at 'hidding' the truth. For what is HIDDEN, WILL be revealed. And for those that SEEK the TRUTH, there is NOTHING of import hidden.

MEC
 
MEC,

I do believe in Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, the official teaching of the Church that "there is no salvation outside the Church". I just don't think you understand what this means. The Catholic Church acknowledges that there are two aspects to the Church: visible and invisible. Many persons who "check the Catholic box" are not members, and many persons who do not "check the Catholic box" are members of the Body of Christ. We will know on Judgment Day. And on that Day all who will have been saved will have been saved through the Body of Christ in some fashion or another.
 
OK guys – back to the OP. Let’s see now . . . . ‘mark’

Paul writes about a distinguishing mark in all his letters. Now I’m not wanting to get hung up in semantics between things such as seals or marks or fruit for example. My thought when raising this topic was; what ONE distinguishing mark identifies a True Christian from any other person.

Now there have been many and varied responses, and to name some; Baptism in water, Born of the Spirit, Temperance / diligence / patience / kindness / humility, Love, Keeping the commandments of God & testimony of Jesus Christ, Oneness & unity in Christ.

Now one could argue that one could be baptized in water and not be a Christian. Likewise one could keep the commandments and still miss the mark. One could claim to be born of the Spirit and not show the fruit of the spirit. One could also show ‘oneness’ and ‘unity’ and not be a Christian.

Yet there is one ‘distinguishing mark’.
 
Back
Top