What is the 'mark' of a True Christian

[Biblereader]

Mutz,

Being 'born again' is the ONLY sign of a TRUE Christian. It is apparent in the understanding of one that has received this 'transformation'.

Is it 'brought about by Baptism'? Not in MY case. I did BECOME Baptised AFTER the FACT, but it played NO part in the actual event.

Amen. Ye must be born again. The thief who died on the cross next to Jesus, went WITH JESUS to paradise.
That thief was not baptized.
42: And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The Church accepted my baptism.
But The Church has never saved anyone.
God sent His only begotten son -- There is no other way.
"... and said, 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved.' and they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved and thy house.'" Acts 16:30,31, KJV.

Here was a soul desperately desiring salvation. Please notice he was not told to believe in Christ

There is a vast difference. Almost everybody on earth are now aware of the fact that Jesus Christ appeared on earth nearly 2,000 years ago. Just to believe the historical record is not enough. Even to know that He is the Divine Savior is not enough. Salvation requires a personal commitment. Our text says, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." Make a complete commitment to Him

 

[Righteousone]

Funny but if it wasn't for the Catholic church's compiling of the bible itself, no one here would even have one. There would be no Christianity and we wouldn't be having these forums. The Catholic church gave you your bibles. All of you. I think everyone here should thank her for preserving and protecting it all these years, 2,000 of them. Even if it meant excommunicating people (Luther), who try and changed the word of God. (And he did succeed in his German version).

You MAY be ABLE to convince those that are COMPLETELY ignorant of the truth of such a slanderous, and blasphemous remark. But those that ARE aware of the TRUTH know perfectly WELL that had it been up to the CC the laiety STILL would have NO access to The Bible.

And SPEAKING of blasphemy of The Holy Spirit, you would actually HAVE the audacity to state OPENLY that God is UNABLE to provide for His children that which HE chooses to OFFER? Father, forgive him, for he KNOWS NOT what HE DOES............

No, there is NO thanks to be given to those that would treat their brothers and sisters as POORLY and inhumanely as history bears out the SINS of the Catholic Church. If ANYTHING, the Catholic Church should be BEGGING the forgiveness of their brothers and sisters and living in FEAR and TREMBLING for the consequences that they will SURELY face upon judgement.

And PRESERVATION? What a JOKE. The Catholic Church did EVERY THING in it's power to alter ANY and EVERYTHING within The Word and within the domains of their DOMINATION for well over a THOUSAND years. Since their dominion included the ABILITY to DENY The Word to those that they DOMINATED, there was LITTLE NEED to alter The Word as MUCH as they most likely WOULD have if they had KNOWN that it was INEVITABLE that it would one day be obtainable by the laiety.

Shame on you, my brother. If this 'darkness of one's heart' you have offered is through the spirit that the Catholic Church CLAIMS as their 'guide', then NO wonder it is SO LOST. For you continually choose to offer NOTHING of ANY sort of edification other than to YOURSELF. Totally ignoring the implications of your WORDS or perhaps with COMPLETE and utter INTENTION of causing derision between yourself and others.

All that's LEFT to say to you is MAY the Spirit of God somehow OPEN your eyes and HEART so that you are ABLE to accept and benefit from the LOVE that God has to offer. And for this cause, THEN perhaps you would be ABLE to offer 'some' of this SAME love to your brothers and sisters.

God BLESS you CC,

MEC

Imagician, you are really so ignorant of the Catholic church it isn't funny. Do you know any history at all? Do you think the bible just dropped down from heaven?
The Protestant account of pre-reformation Catholicism has been largely a falsification of history. All the faults and sins that could possibly be raked up or invented against Rome, or against particular bishops or priests, were presented to the people of this unhappy land, and all her best acts misconstrued, misjudged, misrepresented, and nothing good told in her favour.
Fact is that the Catholic church has guarded it and defended it ALL THROUGH THE AGES, AND PRESERVED IT FROM ERROR OR DESTRUCTION; AND THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS HELD IT IN THE HIGHEST VENERATION AND ESTEEM, AND HAS GROUNDED ITS DOCTRINES UPON IT, THAT SHE ALONE HAS THE RIGHT TO CALL IT HER BOOK; THAT SHE ALONE POCESSES THE TRUE BIBLE AND THE WHOLE BIBLE AND THAT COPIES OF THE SCRIPTURES EXISTING OUTSIDE, ARE PARTLY INCORRECT AND PARTLY DEFECTIVe, AND WHATEVER IN THEM IS TRUE, IS TRUE BECAUSE DERIVED FROM HER WHO ALONE POCESSES THE BOOK IN ITS FULLNESS AND TRUTH. IF YOU WERE A CATHOLIC, YOU WOULD LOVE GOD'S HOLY WORD MORE AND MORE; YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND IT BETTER; YOU WOULD ADORE THE DIVINE PROVIDENCE THAT TOOK SUCH A WISE AND SURE MEANS OF PRESERVING AND PERPETUATING IT; AND YOU WOULD PROFOUNDLY ADMIRE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FOR HER CEASELESS VIGILANCE, UNTIRING ZEAL, AND UNSWERVING FIDELITY TO THE COMMISSION ENTRUSTED TO HER BY ALMIGHTY GOD.

Boy...no wonder John Henry Newman (former Protestant turned bishop) said "To be deep in history, is too cease to be Protestant". They just don't get it...

 

[Imagican]

Yes,

and just LOOK at ALL the WONDEROUS 'things' that they have DONE in the 'name of Christ'..........

MEC

 

[Imagican]

That we may KNOW our TRUE brothers and sisters IN Christ BY THEIR FRUIT, is the ONLY outward 'sign' or 'mark' that we have been offered to discern those that ARE 'born again'.

So, if there IS an 'actual mark' offered through the Spirit, it would be the FRUIT of the Spirit that is APPARENT in the lives of those that ARE 'saved'.

MEC

 

[Righteousone]

Yes,

and just LOOK at ALL the WONDEROUS 'things' that they have DONE in the 'name of Christ'..........

MEC

And the Protestants.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Yes,
and just LOOK at ALL the WONDEROUS 'things' that they have DONE in the 'name of Christ'..........
MEC

Why thank you.

 

[CatholicXian]

This is getting off topic... did the OP ever come back to clarify what he/she meant by "mark"?

 

[mutzrein]

This is getting off topic... did the OP ever come back to clarify what he/she meant by "mark"?

Yes he did. Bottom of previous page.

 

[Imagican]

Yes,

and just LOOK at ALL the WONDEROUS 'things' that they have DONE in the 'name of Christ'..........

MEC

And the Protestants.

And YOU are correct in this statement. Yet you do NOT understand that "I" AM NOT a 'protestant' other than that YOU have chosen to 'label' me as such. I am simply a man that has accepted the Spirit and attempts to 'follow Christ' and His commandments, (I know, I know, we AREN'T ABLE to do ANYTHING on 'our own', RIGHT? Hardly. For temptation IS directed at ALL of us. And it is UP TO US if we submit to IT or simply refuse it for the 'sake' of OBEDIENCE).

So, while you 'caught' the implications of my remark, you failed to see the significance other than the sarcasm. While YOU have offered your submission and obedience to a 'man-made' organization, I have simply accepted what we were TOLD to Do and submit ONLY to God and His Son. I have neither 'pledged my allegiance to the CC, nor have I submitted to the denominations that YOU refer to as Protestant. So, where YOUR confusion lies is in that I am NOT bound to ANY man and choose instead to follow the will of God through His Son with the Spirit as my guide and strength.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Yes,
and just LOOK at ALL the WONDEROUS 'things' that they have DONE in the 'name of Christ'..........
MEC

Why thank you.

NO thanks NEEDED. Just BE proud of yourself.

MEC

 

[GraceBwithU]

Funny but if it wasn't for the Catholic church's compiling of the bible itself, no one here would even have one. There would be no Christianity and we wouldn't be having these forums. The Catholic church gave you your bibles. All of you. I think everyone here should thank her for preserving and protecting it all these years, 2,000 of them. Even if it meant excommunicating people (Luther), who try and changed the word of God. (And he did succeed in his German version).

You MAY be ABLE to convince those that are COMPLETELY ignorant of the truth of such a slanderous, and blasphemous remark. But those that ARE aware of the TRUTH know perfectly WELL that had it been up to the CC the laiety STILL would have NO access to The Bible.....

Righteousone spoke the truth, if a bit bluntly. The scribes of the Church preserved the Bible for centuries.

And the Church never prevented people from reading the Bible. Not to mention the fact that before the invetion of the priniting press there were hardly any Bibles anyway, and hardly any people who could read even if there were. That is an historic fact most people seem to forget - the illiteracy of almost everyone for centuries. What is an inlliterate uneducated peasant going to do with a big book?

Don't you have a Mess to attend. I had a lot more respect for Catholics before you began to post.

 

[GraceBwithU]

Yes,
and just LOOK at ALL the WONDEROUS 'things' that they have DONE in the 'name of Christ'..........
MEC

Why thank you.

NO thanks NEEDED. Just BE proud of yourself.

MEC

Rom 2:23
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
KJV
Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
KJV

:-D

 

[GraceBwithU]

[quote="Catholic Crusader":1a1f6]

Men did this.

The Holy Spirit did that! Shame on you! :-D

I was hoping you'd take the bait. The Holy Spirit wrote it THROUGH MEN. The Bible did not grow on a tree. Men wrote it guided by the Holy Spirit. And since the Bible is INFALLIBLE, that means God caused MEN to write an INFALLIBLE DOCUMENT. Ergo, the fact that God can cause men to be infallible when He wills it is proven by the very existence of the Bible.

Thanks for the assist. :-D[/quote:1a1f6]
Then why do you not believe what it says. you twist and misquote everything in it to Justify your pagan ways.

 

[GraceBwithU]

The Catholic Church boasts of numbers, which in itself is ridiculous way to prove their Christianity. But something that makes it even more ridiculous is the fact that they actually count these poor little infants that they baptize without a choice and often grow up to learn the truth.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Then why do you not believe what it says....

I believe everything it says.

...you twist and misquote everything in it.....

No I don't. I merely pass on the interpretations that have been handed down for 2000 years.

...to Justify your pagan ways.

You're a sweet-talker ain't ya'. :-D

 

[Catholic Crusader]

The Catholic Church boasts of numbers, which in itself is ridiculous way to prove their Christianity. But something that makes it even more ridiculous is the fact that they actually count these poor little infants that they baptize without a choice and often grow up to learn the truth.

I merely mention numbers to show you that most Christians don't believe as you do.

But numbers are not what makes the Church legitimate. Being a Catholic does not guarantee salvation. What makes the Church legitimate is the fact that Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). And among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The heretical protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The list of popes can be traced back to Peter himself, the first pope. Here is a list: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28).
Learn more at this link:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp

 

[mutzrein]

Can I remind you folk that this thread was started NOT to discuss the catholic church or catholicism (or any denomination for that matter) but the 'mark' of a True Christian.

The mark of a Christian is not determined by the lineage of the church he /she belongs to. Nor is it determined by the number of people in that church.

Please keep to the OP.

Thanks

 

[Imagican]

Well Mutz,

We've about beat the subject to 'death' to the point that it leaves little else to discuss other than what is posted by others.

I am not sure what you seek. Whether it be Election, grace, Spirit or fruit. But the ONLY thing that I am able to recogize so far as the MARK of a 'True Christian' is BEING 'born again' unto LIFE. HOW we are ABLE to recognize those that ARE is through their 'fruit of the Spirit'. And these that are recognizable are MANY. But even THEN many are STILL unable to discern the ACTUAL 'truth' of one that may APPEAR to bear fruit. For Satan himself is ABLE to disguise himself as an 'angel of light'. And we are given ample information that states that Christ IS The LIght offered by God to shine upon this darkened planet.

So, what IS the 'mark' that we are 'missing'?

MEC

 

[Veritas]

I think the fruits of the spirit mark a True Christian:

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. Galations 5:22-26

I think we can be pretty sure someone is Christian based on these things. However, I guess we can never be 100% sure because only God truely knows someone's heart.

 

[nadab]

At Matthew 7:13,14, Jesus stated that many people are on the "broad and spacious...road leading off into destruction". On the other hand, he says that few are on the "narrow...gate and cramped...road leading off into life." To further assist individuals in determining the difference between these two "roads", and the ones on them, he gave an illustration using fruit.

He said that there would be those who come "in sheep's clothing, but inside are ravenous wolves." To identify these ones, he then said that "by their fruits you will recognize them." Speaking of "fruit", he now says that "never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they ? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit." He further says: "A good tree cannot bear worthless, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men."(Matt 7:15-20)

Jesus narrows the understanding of who is pleasing to God by the "fruit" these bear, by saying: "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father, who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name. And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you ! Get way from me, you workers of lawlessness."(Matt 7:21-23) Thus, what are the identifying marks or "fruit" of a true Christian ?

(1) Those who practice it have genuine love among themselves.(John 13:34,35; 1 John 4:8)

(2) All their beliefs are based on the Bible.(John 17:17; 2 Tim 3:16,17)

(3) They pray for God's name of Jehovah to be hallowed or sanctified. (Matt 6:9; Ps 83:18)

(4) They proclaim God's kingdom in all the earth, not some political or social philosophy.(Matt 24:14; Acts 28:23)

(5) They keep separate from the world's affairs, untainted by the world's politics or conflicts, remaining neutral in time of war.(James 1:27; John 17:14)

(6) They put God's kingdom and his righteousness first in their lives.(Matt 6:33)

(7) They cultivate the fruitage of God's spirit, not condoning war or personal violence.(Gal 5:22,23; Rom 12:17-21)

(8) They obey all human laws not contrary to God's law.(Rom 13:1-7)

(9) The true religion successfully unites people of every race, language, and tribe. It does not preach nationalism or hatred, but love worldwide.(Isaiah 2:2-4; Col 3:10,11)

(10)The true religion teaches the truth regarding God's purpose for man and the earth.(Matt 5:5; Ps 115:16; Isaiah 45:18)