What is the rule of faith for Christians?

[Bible]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.




1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!

————————-
Faith is part of works!

Works is defined as something we choose to do, volition!

Faith is also works because you have to choose to believe! Jn 1:12 Jn 3:16 rom 10:9

And continue to believe, a perpetual state of believing. Matt 24:13 Jn 15:1-5


In grace works have merit

————


Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

All are redeemed

————

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

 

[Bible]

Not from Peter...no. The apostle's doctrine, yes.

Quantrill

Is Jesus Christ the king?

 

[GodsGrace]

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Thru the sacraments!


God provides for everything:
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is the way we must follow!
He is the truth we must believe!
He is the life, life of grace thru the sacraments of the church in which we must live!

Abide in Christ and His church with grace and life provided by God thru the sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Re the bolded above (by me).
I think it's important to say that when GOD makes a PROMISE, it is, by the very fact that God is making it - an oath.

However, we distinguish between a promise and an oath.
A promise is made by man and may not be binding...
An oath is made in the presence of God and is binding - for example marriage is an oath to the spouse (not a promise).

 

[GodsGrace]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.




1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!

————————-
Faith is part of works!

Works is defined as something we choose to do, volition!

Faith is also works because you have to choose to believe! Jn 1:12 Jn 3:16 rom 10:9

And continue to believe, a perpetual state of believing. Matt 24:13 Jn 15:1-5


In grace works have merit

————


Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

All are redeemed

————

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

1. You've answered above a question I had for you:
You stated that we are not saved by baptism but are justified by it. (your post no. 139)

I'm sure you must understand that when we are justified, we are also saved.
We are 'made right' with God.

Jesus said we must be baptized so I would agree that baptism is a must.
If a person dies with faith but not baptized, the CCC does state that the person would have a baptism of desire and would still be saved.

I also agree with what you've stated in your post no. 140:
Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Faith and baptism are required for salvation and not baptism alone - which many in the CC believe to be true.

I disagree as to the one and only holy church.....
The Body of Christ is comprised of everyone that has faith and lives a life worthy to be called a Christian by Jesus.
Jesus did say that works are necessary, for example in John 5:28.
The CCC states that we are united with baptized persons, even if they are not Catholic.
I think it's paragraph 1271.

I'd also disagree that faith is a work.
Paul clearly states that faith is NOT a work.
4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
6just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Romans 11:6
6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.


A work is something you do to merit payment, or a wage.
Faith is a gift from God when we seek Him and thus cannot be a work.
Ephesians 2:8-10
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Verse 8 We are saved by God's grace through faith...it is the gift of God.
Verse 9 Not as a result of works.
Verse 10 After salvation come the good works.

 

[JLB]

The holy church is the kingdom of God

The kingdom of God is the kingdom of God.


The Catholic Church is a false religion, a counterfeit Church.


No where in scripture do we find any such things as Popes and Cardinals ruling from a centralized location in Rome, called the Vatican.


No where in scripture do we find that Jesus told us to pray to Mary and dead saints.


No where in scripture are we told to count “Rosary Beads” as we recite some “prayer” over and over in vain repetition.


No where in scripture did Jesus command the Apostles to start a bank in Rome and gather trillions of dollars.


No where in scripture did Jesus command His Apostles to dress up in costumes.


No where in scripture do we find Jesus commanding the Church to makes statues of dead saints and bow down to them in Prayer.





Please stop promoting the false religion of Catholicism in this community.






JLB

 

[Quantrill]

Faith alone is a condemned heresy!
Luther demanded a council to decide on his innovations the council of Trent convened and condemned all his proposals especially faith alone, holy council of Trent by the authority of Christ in his apostles. If anyone says a man may be just by faith alone let him be anathema!
And Christ Mk 16:16 faith and baptism
Scripture Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
Paul condemns faith alone
1 cor 13:2 even all faith without charity avails nothing
Phil 1:29 called to suffer for Christ not “faith alone”
In “faith alone” we died with Christ? No in baptism rom 6:3
In “faith alone” we put on Christ? No in baptism gal 3:27
In “faith alone we become members of Christ and his holy church? No in baptism
1 cor 12:13

The holy church is the ark of salvation and baptism is how we enter the ark notice we are sealed by God in baptism just as Noah was sealed by God on the ark gen 7:16
eph 1:13
Sealed by baptism

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith (Catholic) one baptism

Faith alone is not condemned heresy. Because, we are speaking of faith that results in being born-again.

The council of Trent was just a reaction to the Reformation. So? What do you expect them to do?

Your verses given have been addressed. They either speak of Spirit baptism or they prove faith first then water baptism follows.

In (1 Peter 3:20-21) the Ark is not that which brings salvation. The waters of the flood are. They destroyed the worlds threat to the believer. Which in a figure, how water baptism saves us. It couldn't be clearer. The 8 souls were already believers in the Ark.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Mathias succeeded judus

None of that proves any succession to Peter's apostleship. It was important to have 12 disciples to exercise their future role in the Kingdom. (Matt. 19:27-28)

That Peter was a leader among the disciples no one is denying. But even there it would be Paul who would eclipse Peter's leadership in the Church.

The local churches are not dependent on Rome. They have the Holy Spirit who works in the individual believers giving them spiritual gifts by which they represent Christ on earth. By which Christ ministers to His people.

That is the only succession that occurs in the Church. The Holy Spirit indwells other believers after believers move on to be with the Lord.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

That is interesting. You have presented a parallel between Moses seat and what you call Peter's authority. Yet there was no one individual that succeeded Moses in that area. Joshua replaced Moses to bring Israel into the land. There were many used to represent the Law. Priests, Levites, Scribes, etc. etc.

And those that represented Moses seat, the Scribes, and Pharisees, were hypocrites who didn't understand the Scriptures. (Matt. 22:29) (Matt. 23:13)

I mean, I have no problem seeing those verses you use to represent the condition of the Pope and Rome. I just don't think that was your intention.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Is Jesus Christ the king?

Of course Jesus Christ is the King. And Israel's relationship with Christ is Christ as King. But,the Churches relationship with Christ is as Husband and wife.

(Eph. 5:22-27)

Quantrill

 

[Bible]

1. You've answered above a question I had for you:
You stated that we are not saved by baptism but are justified by it. (your post no. 139)

I'm sure you must understand that when we are justified, we are also saved.
We are 'made right' with God.

Jesus said we must be baptized so I would agree that baptism is a must.
If a person dies with faith but not baptized, the CCC does state that the person would have a baptism of desire and would still be saved.

I also agree with what you've stated in your post no. 140:
Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Faith and baptism are required for salvation and not baptism alone - which many in the CC believe to be true.

I disagree as to the one and only holy church.....
The Body of Christ is comprised of everyone that has faith and lives a life worthy to be called a Christian by Jesus.
Jesus did say that works are necessary, for example in John 5:28.
The CCC states that we are united with baptized persons, even if they are not Catholic.
I think it's paragraph 1271.

I'd also disagree that faith is a work.
Paul clearly states that faith is NOT a work.
4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
6just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Romans 11:6
6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.


A work is something you do to merit payment, or a wage.
Faith is a gift from God when we seek Him and thus cannot be a work.
Ephesians 2:8-10
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Verse 8 We are saved by God's grace through faith...it is the gift of God.
Verse 9 Not as a result of works.
Verse 10 After salvation come the good works.

After we are in Christ by faith and baptism we are a new creation in grace but not saved, Matt 24:13 rom 13:11

Grace enables us to have both faith and works

Christian suffering!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Matthew 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Verses of Christian suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:



Rev 2: 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Rev 2:23 .....I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

More below

 

[Bible]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.




1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!

 

[Bible]

The kingdom of God is the kingdom of God.

(The kingdom is the new covenant church our mother, holy mother church gal 4:26, his kingdom shall have no end Lk 1:32-33 he as king is mediator of the covenant)

The Catholic Church is a false religion, a counterfeit Church.

(Only one true church founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18-19 gates shall not prevail against Christ and his holy church, jn 10:16 one church)

No where in scripture do we find any such things as Popes and Cardinals ruling from a centralized location in Rome, called the Vatican

(Matt 16:18 Matt 18:18 jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20) (kingdom or Christ conquered the pagan Roman Empire dan 2:44)

No where in scripture do we find that Jesus told us to pray to Mary and dead saints.

(Mary full of grace Lk 1:28 throne of grace Heb 4:16 and there are no dead saints Jn 11:25)

No where in scripture are we told to count “Rosary Beads” as we recite some “prayer” over and over in vain repetition.

(The purpose of the rosary is Christian meditation on the life death and resurrection of Christ, vain repetition within one prayer is condemned not repeating prayers or praying scripture Christ prayed three times let this cup pass)

No where in scripture did Jesus command the Apostles to start a bank in Rome and gather trillions of dollars.

(There is no church bank, that is a nation, and a nation is permitted a post office a bank etc. )

No where in scripture did Jesus command His Apostles to dress up in costumes.

(Religious leaders always had special garb, look at the Jewish high priest, why does it need to be in scripture, the spy have authority from Christ to decide these matters)

No where in scripture do we find Jesus commanding the Church to makes statues of dead saints and bow down to them in Prayer.


(Apostolic authority images are not forbidden God commanded Moses to make the ark with angels, worshiping them is forbidden)


Please stop promoting the false religion of Catholicism in this community.

(I only promote what I see as biblical understanding, you are the one who assumes what it is)

After all you say read the Bible


JLB

 

[Bible]

Faith alone is not condemned heresy. Because, we are speaking of faith that results in being born-again.

The council of Trent was just a reaction to the Reformation. So? What do you expect them to do?

Your verses given have been addressed. They either speak of Spirit baptism or they prove faith first then water baptism follows.

In (1 Peter 3:20-21) the Ark is not that which brings salvation. The waters of the flood are. They destroyed the worlds threat to the believer. Which in a figure, how water baptism saves us. It couldn't be clearer. The 8 souls were already believers in the Ark.

Quantrill


Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

 

[Bible]

None of that proves any succession to Peter's apostleship. It was important to have 12 disciples to exercise their future role in the Kingdom. (Matt. 19:27-28)

That Peter was a leader among the disciples no one is denying. But even there it would be Paul who would eclipse Peter's leadership in the Church.

The local churches are not dependent on Rome. They have the Holy Spirit who works in the individual believers giving them spiritual gifts by which they represent Christ on earth. By which Christ ministers to His people.

That is the only succession that occurs in the Church. The Holy Spirit indwells other believers after believers move on to be with the Lord.

Quantrill

Only one church jn 10;16

Peter is head of the church on earth by Christ acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

 

[Bible]

That is interesting. You have presented a parallel between Moses seat and what you call Peter's authority. Yet there was no one individual that succeeded Moses in that area. Joshua replaced Moses to bring Israel into the land. There were many used to represent the Law. Priests, Levites, Scribes, etc. etc.

And those that represented Moses seat, the Scribes, and Pharisees, were hypocrites who didn't understand the Scriptures. (Matt. 22:29) (Matt. 23:13)

I mean, I have no problem seeing those verses you use to represent the condition of the Pope and Rome. I just don't think that was your intention.

Quantrill

They may be corrupt as you say but Christ still commanded their authority to be obeyed and this authority passed to Peter and the apostles

 

[Bible]

Of course Jesus Christ is the King. And Israel's relationship with Christ is Christ as King. But,the Churches relationship with Christ is as Husband and wife.

(Eph. 5:22-27)

Quantrill

Does Christ’s kingship entail the entire world, all men, Christ having all power and authority?

 

[Hopeful]

They may be corrupt as you say but Christ still commanded their authority to be obeyed and this authority passed to Peter and the apostles

Why do you think catholics can't quit sinning?
Why are their repentances from sin always false?

 

[Bible]

Why do you think catholics can't quit sinning?
Why are their repentances from sin always false?

We have a sin nature and must resist as Paul says Heb 12:4
There is true repentance but we are promised grace not perseverance
Matt 24:13 endure until the end

 

[GodsGrace]

The kingdom of God is the kingdom of God.


The Catholic Church is a false religion, a counterfeit Church.


No where in scripture do we find any such things as Popes and Cardinals ruling from a centralized location in Rome, called the Vatican.


No where in scripture do we find that Jesus told us to pray to Mary and dead saints.


No where in scripture are we told to count “Rosary Beads” as we recite some “prayer” over and over in vain repetition.


No where in scripture did Jesus command the Apostles to start a bank in Rome and gather trillions of dollars.


No where in scripture did Jesus command His Apostles to dress up in costumes.


No where in scripture do we find Jesus commanding the Church to makes statues of dead saints and bow down to them in Prayer.





Please stop promoting the false religion of Catholicism in this community.






JLB

Catholicism is not a false religion.
It's the church that makes it possible for you to be a Christian today...since Christianity would have ceased to be had it not been for the universal, catholic, church - which is the original church that existed after Jesus.

Everyone is invited on this forum that does not break the forum rules...even atheists.

Because someone, or some church, does not agree with what we may deem to be "the truth" does not make them uninvited.

There are calvinists on this forum that are as far away from the doctrines of Jesus that could possibly exist.
They believe that God chooses who will be saved, as if He were some sadistic being in the sky that wishes to create humans so that some could spend eternity in hell.
I see that they are invited and are still here to post their beliefs and ideas - which most of Christianity does not find in existence anywhere in scripture.

There are churches that teach that God is like Santa Clause. Just name it and claim it. Even if reality does not seem to be what someone prayed for, they are taught not to trust reality but to trust that God will answer their prayers. And if He doesn't - well, they certainly must have sin in their life or are doing something wrong or are not even saved.

The Pope and Cardinals may not be found in scripture...but they certainly existed after Jesus returned home.
Every major part of the world in Jesus' area had a "pope". There were 5 of them and eventually they decided to give the title of Pope only to the leader in Rome since all the other regions turned to Rome for advice when there was a problem.

Every church has a hierarchy whether or not we protestants wish to admit it.

Every pastor in a denominational church answers to someone higher than himself.

I do wish everyone on this forum would study some history.
History of the Christian religion continued AFTER Jesus departed...it is not all contained in the N.T. but continues on.

If a person believes in the Christian Creed (of which there are several - pick any one) that makes the person be a Christian.

I don't agree with everything Bible posts and have told him why....but I believe he is a saved Christian and doing his best to explain
a church that too many Protestants do not take the time to understand.

 

[Hopeful]

We have a sin nature and must resist as Paul says Heb 12:4

That doesn't agree with Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
or Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
or 2 Cor 5:17..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
The catholics, according to just those three verses, have not destroyed the body of sin prior to rebirth, been crucified, or are "in Christ".
The "old things" have not passed away, but been taken along for the ride.

There is true repentance but we are promised grace not perseverance
Matt 24:13 endure until the end

Every broken repentance from sin is a lie to God.
Liars cannot forge a relationship with God or with His Son Jesus Christ.

Want to quit sinning?