What is the Strong Delusion? Extraterrestrial Designers seeded belief in God

[Watchman_2]

You have only proved that you believe I am in "gross" error. You have only proved that you sit in judgement of my belief. That has penetrated my 'brain', and others alike.

LOL...it wasn't me that proved you in gross error -- it was the Word that did it. I am merely the messenger.

It is God's Word that sits in judgment as to who is correct and who is in error. See 2 Tim. 3:16-17. If you are so pig-headed that you will not allow the Word of God to reprove you, what does that say about your character??

IMO, your failure to acknowledge your gross error only demonstrates that you are a scorner to Truth [Pro. 9:8]. For if you love Christ, you would also love the Truth of the Word. For, Christ's name is called "the Word of God" [Rev. 19:13].

Instead, look at your reaction to having been proven in error. You should be ashamed of yourself!!

 

[Sam21]

I thought Baptist,Pentacostals, and charismatics were on the far right? All this time I thought that I was part of the vast right wing conspiracy and now I find out I am really on the left?

 

[Eventide]

Re: Rebekah

If there is any forshadowing of events to come it would be from the exodus story. Where were the jews when god removed his peaple from egypt during the plauges

I do believe that this story is another story in itself.. because the end times are all centered upon that nation.. Israel.. and Israel WILL go through the great tribulation, for it is the time of JACOB's trouble.. and that story in Exodus appears to tell the miraculous story of God delivering JACOB (Israel) in the end.. and at that time the scriptures tell us that all nations will come against them.. and Satan will do everything in his power to destroy THEM but the Lord will deliver them in that Day.. the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ... which shall come upon the whole world as travail upon a woman with child..

I think that Rev 12 teaches us this as well.. and Dan 12 aligns perfectly.. Michael standing up for Daniel's people (Israelites) in the time of the end. I also believe that this aligns perfectly with Matt 24, a portion which is often confounded with the church of God even though its context is Israel.

.02

 

[Sam21]

LOL...it wasn't me that proved you in gross error -- it was the Word that did it. I am merely the messenger.

It is God's Word that sits in judgment as to who is correct and who is in error. See 2 Tim. 3:16-17. If you are so pig-headed that you will not allow the Word of God to reprove you, what does that say about your character??

IMO, your failure to acknowledge your gross error only demonstrates that you are a scorner to Truth [Pro. 9:8]. For if you love Christ, you would also love the Truth of the Word. For, Christ's name is called "the Word of God" [Rev. 19:13].

Instead, look at your reaction to having been proven in error. You should be ashamed of yourself!!

Do you believe in a gathering of the church as recorded in Matt 24?

 

[Watchman_2]

Do you believe in a gathering of the church as recorded in Matt 24?

The word 'church' does not exist in Mat. 24.

 

[Sam21]

Re: Rebekah

I do believe that this story is another story in itself.. because the end times are all centered upon that nation.. Israel.. and Israel WILL go through the great tribulation, for it is the time of JACOB's trouble.. and that story in Exodus appears to tell the miraculous story of God delivering JACOB (Israel) in the end.. and at that time the scriptures tell us that all nations will come against them.. and Satan will do everything in his power to destroy THEM but the Lord will deliver them in that Day.. the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ... which shall come upon the whole world as travail upon a woman with child..

I think that Rev 12 teaches us this as well.. and Dan 12 aligns perfectly.. Michael standing up for Daniel's people (Israelites) in the time of the end. I also believe that this aligns perfectly with Matt 24, a portion which is often confounded with the church of God even though its context is Israel.

.02

Yes the nation of Israel will go through the great tribulation and so will the church, there is absolutely nothing in the bible that excuses the church from going through the tribulation period that was described by Jesus. Pre-trib is a non-biblical,demonic invented,end-time deception, that will cause thousands to lose salvation when it does not occur, and also pre-trib is a direct contradiction of Jesus Christ and Paul and Revelation.

 

[Watchman_2]

I thought Baptist,Pentacostals, and charismatics were on the far right? All this time I thought that I was part of the vast right wing conspiracy and now I find out I am really on the left?

You may be on the political right. But, such denomiinations are the left wing of Christianity.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Be not ignorant of this one thing..

Please show scripture to support that position. The bible says that a day with the lord is as a thousand years but it does not say that the day of the lord is a thousand years , in fact the word day is the same as those used in genesis to denote a period of nightime followed by a period of daytime. We call them weekdays.

This is a good question... where might the word of God show us that a Day (as in the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ), is more than just a 24 hour period of time..

I think that the answer is wherever the word speaks of the Day of the Lord.. its events can't be fit into that short a period of time..

Look at how this portion of the OT book of Zechariah speaks concerning that DAY.. especially verse 8..

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Notice how that it says that in that Day living waters shall go out from Jerusalem (which is the city of the great King), and that this shall be in summer and in winter.. clearly more than a 24 hour period of time.. and it says that He will be King over ALL the EARTH in that Day.. and we should not be ignorant of this one thing, that a DAY WITH the LORD is as a thousand years..

Matthew 25 tells us that when He comes in His glory that He will sit upon the throne of His glory and I'm sure it will be in that city of the great King.. when He alone will be King over it all.

Absolutely sounds surreal.. God coming again and I take it literally.. and I think that the scriptures testify to His delivering Israel in the end.. and Matthew 19 also tells us that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits upon the throne of His glory, that His Apostles (Peter, James, John, etc) will also sit upon twelve thrones, and they will judge the twelve tribes of ISRAEL.. imagine that.. All the resurrected Apostles, ruling and reigning with Christ.. in His Kingdom, here on earth.. when the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ.

 

[warhorse]

Re: Be not ignorant of this one thing..

This is a good question... where might the word of God show us that a Day (as in the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ), is more than just a 24 hour period of time..

I think that the answer is wherever the word speaks of the Day of the Lord.. its events can't be fit into that short a period of time..

Look at how this portion of the OT book of Zechariah speaks concerning that DAY.. especially verse 8..

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Notice how that it says that in that Day living waters shall go out from Jerusalem (which is the city of the great King), and that this shall be in summer and in winter.. clearly more than a 24 hour period of time.. and it says that He will be King over ALL the EARTH in that Day.. and we should not be ignorant of this one thing, that a DAY WITH the LORD is as a thousand years..

Matthew 25 tells us that when He comes in His glory that He will sit upon the throne of His glory and I'm sure it will be in that city of the great King.. when He alone will be King over it all.

Absolutely sounds surreal.. God coming again and I take it literally.. and I think that the scriptures testify to His delivering Israel in the end.. and Matthew 19 also tells us that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits upon the throne of His glory, that His Apostles (Peter, James, John, etc) will also sit upon twelve thrones, and they will judge the twelve tribes of ISRAEL.. imagine that.. All the resurrected Apostles, ruling and reigning with Christ.. in His Kingdom, here on earth.. when the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ.

Well i too hold a pre-millinial position. But that does not really amount to scriptural support since the word day there is still defined as a nightime to daytime rotation. Perhaps some scripture to support my position would help.

Gen1v3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Isaiah 13v6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the SUN shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Mathew 24v29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13v
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Rev 10v5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

No one ever said that all of the events of the day of the lord had to be completed in that day.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Be not ignorant of this one thing..

Well i too hold a pre-millinial position. But that does not really amount to scriptural support since the word day there is still defined as a nightime to daytime rotation. Perhaps some scripture to support my position would help.

Ok so you do believe that there will be a thousand year reign of Christ on earth.. right ?

No one ever said that all of the events of the day of the lord had to be completed in that day.

I'm trying to understand what you believe here.. you do believe in a thousand year reign but you believe that the Day of the Lord is only one 24 our period.. right ?

 

[warhorse]

Re: Be not ignorant of this one thing..

Ok so you do believe that there will be a thousand year reign of Christ on earth.. right ?



I'm trying to understand what you believe here.. you do believe in a thousand year reign but you believe that the Day of the Lord is only one 24 our period.. right ?

yes! I have to believe that the bible was written as God intended it to be. 1000 yrs = 1000 yrs, 1 day = 1 day.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Be not ignorant of this one thing..

yes! I have to believe that the bible was written as God intended it to be. 1000 yrs = 1000 yrs, 1 day = 1 day.

So you believe that the Lord will be King over all the earth for one day (24 hours) and that's it.. ? For example..

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

It does say in that day doesn't it.. ? You take this to mean one 24 hour period ?

 

[Nathan]

LOL...it wasn't me that proved you in gross error -- it was the Word that did it. I am merely the messenger.

It is God's Word that sits in judgment as to who is correct and who is in error. See 2 Tim. 3:16-17. If you are so pig-headed that you will not allow the Word of God to reprove you, what does that say about your character??

IMO, your failure to acknowledge your gross error only demonstrates that you are a scorner to Truth [Pro. 9:8]. For if you love Christ, you would also love the Truth of the Word. For, Christ's name is called "the Word of God" [Rev. 19:13].

Instead, look at your reaction to having been proven in error. You should be ashamed of yourself!!

Interesting. Christ tells us we should be careful of ever idle word we say. If you did not prove me in gross error, then why did you state such in a previous post?

Now, I have proved you in gross error once again. Will it ever penetrate your brain??

Out of the mouth proceeds the things of the heart. If you really believed that the Bible had proved me wrong, I dare say thats what you would have written. But alas, let God's Word be true and everyman a lier. Your heart spoke all it needed to right there.

Sure, you can now state that it is His word that sits in judgement, but it is not what you had stated before. And if it were Christ who were judging me, would He not do so through His Spirit? Do you think that He judges another through the words of mere man?

2Timothy states that the entirety of God's Word is applicable, yet when I state that you have camped out in that one passage you deny the need to go outside of it for correct interpretation. Context is not only based in the book or chapter, its based in the entirety of the Bible.

"Pig-Headed"? Really? So insulting comments is what is supposed to bring about the "truth" as you see it? Interesting, because this is not what we are taught in the NT. The same place, and same person, you are drawing your conclusions from stated;

Eph 4:25 Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil. Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need. Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

If you call "pig-headed" good for building up....well...

You use Proverbs 9:8 to state that I am a "scorner"?

Pro 9:8 Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you.

Do you suppose I "hate" you? Very much not so. I love you. If I did not, then I would not spend the time I do in conversation with you. Maybe you misunderstand what love is?

I do love the truth, and to say that I was not taken back by your accusations is an understatement. I was, and responded as such. You believe that I am in gross error. Its undeniable because you stated it with your own words. You judged me and you stated it with your own words. It did penetrate my brain and I saw what you were saying. I forgive you, and hold now nothing against you. What did you find that I should be ashamed of?


With all of that said, I would love to still continue the topic at hand. It is evident, in context, that Paul is speaking of "the" truth of the Gospel by his statement of such later on in the chapter. So therefore, the truth is not referring to the timing of Christ return. It is definitely referring to the truth as in the Gospel. While the timing of Christ return is in the Gospel(to an extent), it is not "the" Gospel.

Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

2Th 2:13-14 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The timing of the gathering to Christ is not what peoples eternal lives hinge on. And this is exactly what Paul is using as a opposite of those who do believe the lie.

2Th 2:11-12 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

He contrasts unrighteousness with the truth. Unrighteousness is the same as lawlessness, it is the state of ones heart. The timing of the gathering has nothing to do with the law. There is no command from God or Christ that we must believe He comes after the Antichrist is exposed. It is wise, and it is wisdom to understand the timing. But its not a command, therefore it cannot be considered to be having pleasure in "unrighteousness".

 

[savedbygrace57]

wm:

That lie, as Paul set forth in 2 Thes. 2, is regarding the return of Christ.

Its not limited to eschatolgy, but also The Truth of the Gospel is included of which last things are included, for paul says:

2 thess 1:8

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

And they cannot obey [believe] the Gospel because God has sent them strong delusion to believe a lie, but the Gospel is the Truth..

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Thessalonians+1:7-9&version=KJV

 

[Sam21]

The word 'church' does not exist in Mat. 24.

/The word "church"may not exist in Matt 24, however the description of Jesus gathering the church does exist in Matt 24. First lets deal with the word "church", the word church simply means an assembly of people with a common purpose or belief. Jesus gave the message of His return to an assembly of people with a common purpose and belief and He told those people that His return was for them personally. Those persons that Jesus told He would return for personally are the pillars and fathers of the church and they were instructed by Jesus to teach to the church(disciples)all the things He had taught them, that would of course be His return to gather them. So one can see that in Matt 24 Jesus did give a description of His return to gather the church.

 

[Nathan]

/The word "church"may not exist in Matt 24, however the description of Jesus gathering the church does exist in Matt 24. First lets deal with the word "church", the word church simply means an assembly of people with a common purpose or belief. Jesus gave the message of His return to an assembly of people with a common purpose and belief and He told those people that His return was for them personally. Those persons that Jesus told He would return for personally are the pillars and fathers of the church and they were instructed by Jesus to teach to the church(disciples)all the things He had taught them, that would of course be His return to gather them. So one can see that in Matt 24 Jesus did give a description of His return to gather the church.

Aka "elect". ;)

 

[Watchman_2]

/The word "church"may not exist in Matt 24, however the description of Jesus gathering the church does exist in Matt 24. First lets deal with the word "church", the word church simply means an assembly of people with a common purpose or belief. Jesus gave the message of His return to an assembly of people with a common purpose and belief and He told those people that His return was for them personally. Those persons that Jesus told He would return for personally are the pillars and fathers of the church and they were instructed by Jesus to teach to the church(disciples)all the things He had taught them, that would of course be His return to gather them. So one can see that in Matt 24 Jesus did give a description of His return to gather the church.

You contradict yourself. On the one hand, you claim that His return was for them "personally". [I agree with this.] Then, you try to connect those individuals to the pillars and fathers of the 'church'. There is no such transference of Christ's salvation from 'persons' to 'church' anywhere in scripture.

The concept of 'church' salvation is easily decided. Those that make the first resurrection [judgment based upon flesh existence] are described in Rev. 20:4. The 'church' is not included therein. However, individuals are judged.

In fact, most scriptures regarding the pillars and fathers of the 'church' are given in derision -- as they are the source of false teaching. If the entire 'church' were 'saved', there would be no need for God to judge preachers first. Yet, God judges preachers first because He holds them accountable for all the souls lost to Satan due to their false teachings.

 

[Eventide]

/The word "church"may not exist in Matt 24, however the description of Jesus gathering the church does exist in Matt 24. First lets deal with the word "church", the word church simply means an assembly of people with a common purpose or belief. Jesus gave the message of His return to an assembly of people with a common purpose and belief and He told those people that His return was for them personally. Those persons that Jesus told He would return for personally are the pillars and fathers of the church and they were instructed by Jesus to teach to the church(disciples)all the things He had taught them, that would of course be His return to gather them. So one can see that in Matt 24 Jesus did give a description of His return to gather the church.

It's interesting to note that the church of God did not yet exist when these things were taught to His disciples.. Also notice how it speaks of those who are Judaea to flee to the mountains.. Exactly what Zechariah says in the potion I refererenced yesterday.
It also speaks of the Sabbath day.

These are important distinctions in the word of God which should not be ignored.. Just as we should not ignore the mystery pertaining to Israel lest we become wise in our own conceits

 

[Hitch]

It's interesting to note that the church of God did not yet exist when these things were taught to His disciples.. Also notice how it speaks of those who are Judaea to flee to the mountains.. Exactly what Zechariah says in the potion I refererenced yesterday.
It also speaks of the Sabbath day.

These are important distinctions in the word of God which should not be ignored.. Just as we should not ignore the mystery pertaining to Israel lest we become wise in our own conceits

Bovine excrement.

 

[Watchman_2]

If you would take time, read what I write in context, and understand what words actually mean instead of implied meaning; then you would see that the Bible clearly states that Christians[those who follow Christ/led by the Spirit] cannot be deceived. The only time a Christian is deceived is when they "think" they are a Christian, not when they are one.

You are confusing your definition of 'Christian' with all those who call themselves 'Christian'. Of course, there are many claiming to be led by the Holy Spirit, but are not.

However, I wouldn't go so far as your last claim regarding those who "think" they are Christian. Basically, there are two classifications for salvation -- the predestinated/elect and those with free will who believe. In the endtime, the elect cannot be deceived. However, all those free-will Christians are free game for Satan's deception.

Since the vast majority of those calling themselves 'Christian' are free game for Satan's deception, it is fair to conclude that some, who may have been Spirit-led Christians, will get deceived [by not knowing the Truth] and some, who had already taken the mark of the beast, will smarten up and not worship the Beast.

Perhaps, your position is driven from the false perception of 'Once Saved -- Always Saved'. Some folks, who hold this belief, will claim that fallen preachers [like the 4 Jims of Pentecostalism] were never Christians to begin with, rather then admit that it is possible to lose one's salvation.

In review of your postings regarding 2 Th. 2, it would appear that your twisting of scripture could be explained by the false OSAS belief. Instead of acknowledging that the context pertains to the perserving of Christians' salvation versus Christians that lose their salvation, you attempt to bastardize the meaning into distinguishing between Christians and non-Christians.

Keep in mind that God's sole purpose for this flesh dispenstion of time is to test those that know both Christ and Satan to see who will pass the test and who
will fail it, and thereby perish. Non-Christians do not necessarily perish -- most get their opportunity in spriritual bodies at the end of the Lord's Day. This truth pretty much disproves your 2 Th. 2 theology.

Hbr 3:12 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.

2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

When we are following, then we are being led. And Christ will NEVER lead us astray. It is only when we LEAVE Christ, and go after other things, that we are deceived. But guess what. If you leave Christ you are no longer a Christian; you are no longer following Christ.

People are not going to leave Christ over simple timing of their being caught up with Him, this is not stated elsewhere in the Bible. However, the Bible CLEARLY states that people leave Christ because of sinful desires, and this is stated numerous times throughout the Bible.

What you have done is 'camped out' in this one passage without taking into account of the whole of the Bible. This is the same way people go into the exact false reasoning that you and I both see. When you do not look at the Bible as a whole, you can be led to believe something that is not 'accurate'. It might be truthful, but its not THE TRUTH.

What I have done is accurately teach 2 Th. 2. It is about those who call themsleves 'Christian' that wish to believe a lie that Christ returns first. It is very easy to see why those folks deserve to perish [if they were taught the Truth and rejected it]. Because, if they hold true to such belief, they will worship the Antichrist, while thinking he is the true Christ. At all times worshipping the Antichrist, they would have been thinking that they are leading a good Christian life.

God is so good that He delivers the first 4 vials of His wrath unto those Christians, who believe the lie, as a last warning in hope of getting them to repent.

If you cannot see the Truth here, it certainly is not the result of not having it been taught properly to you.