What is the work of the builder that will burn?

[JLB]

Jethro Bodine says it's People you place in the building of God but who don't pass through the Final Judgment of God (who are burned) via 1 Cor 3 AND 1 Cor 9. Hmmm???



Are you 100% sure that it is Paul's planted people that he's talking about (versus his work in the Lord) in 1 Cor 9 and in 1 Cor 3 that get burned? Okay then, how do you like them cooked?

1 Corinthians 9:7 (LEB) Who plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it?
​

Bon appetite

Absolutely makes no sense.

You just took a scripture out of context, and applied it to Paul building people.


LOL. More desperate grasping at straws!



JLB

 

[chessman]

Absolutely makes no sense.

You just took a scripture out of context, and applied it to Paul building people.


LOL. More desperate grasping at straws!



JLB

Bingo! You're right. That's exactly my point. Tell that to the professor (JB). He's the one that brought in Chapter 9:1. I just added a little context (9:6) to JB's thought process there.

It makes no sense to switch to a whole other section/topic of Scripture just because it has a phrase in it that you'd like to apply to the topic (unless and until you've demonstrated it's the same topic). Paul might be making the same point in Chapter 9 that he was in 1 Cor 3 AND he might not! Guess what? He's not.

Unless you think Paul's going to be eating the people he saves (but that don't make it through the fire), it "makes no sense". You're right.

Chapter 3 is about Paul's work/labor and reward. Chapter 9 is about Paul's qualification to do that work (his right's to his apostleship). Are they related? Sure! But I can guarantee you, that Paul doesn't think he's literally "placing people in the building (see your vote)" in either chapter. As my first post pointed out (that you guys jumped on as, oh what's the wording JB used, "Lol, this is funny") it is clearly God's job description (The Master Builder) not Paul's job description (the apostle that's like The Master Builder) to "place people in the building".

JB can't make the point that he's trying to make (that the work of Paul literally is the people that Paul saves) based on the Scripture being studied (1 Cor 3) so he jumps from the original passage to another one (Chapter 9's "Are you not my work in the Lord?") to try to make his point.

Look, I'm not so obstinate (close but not quite) that at first glance the phrase (It's not even a whole verse) "Are you not my work in the Lord?" doesn't sound just exactly like the verse that proves your vote is correct. However, when you actually go and read the context (at least the whole verse but better yet, the whole chapter) indeed JB's case makes "Absolutely no sense" (to use your words). That's my point!

Why? Because Paul's NOT saying that the people he evangelizes to are literally his "reward" if they survive the fire. He's saying "You [the Corinthian people] are his seal of apostleship in the Lord" As Deborah13 has already pointed out correctly (and more politely than me). I just demonstrated it further, less politely.

Paul means what he means in Chapter 3 and he means what he means in Chapter 9. But it's entirely possible (I say evident) that he doesn't mean he's the Master Builder/Planter who's literally "placing people in the building" in either chapter. That's NOT to say that God's not using Paul to build/plant people in the building or that the building is not the people. But the works of Paul, are exactly what he says they are. Paul's works!

God is clearly using Paul, Apollos, Ananias, you, me, JB and Judas (both of them) and Deborah (both of them) etc. to build God's building. Quite a privilege really, when you think about it.

But He laid The Foundation (Christ), The Corner Stone and it is "God Causing the increase" (in Chapter 3, Chapter 9 and Chapter 2014. God (not Paul) is using all of us to do just that. Some of our work's will be rewarded (each individually, per chapter 3) and some will not.

What a Master Builder He is, huh? Paul is working/laboring like Him, but Paul ain't Him. No human "places people in the building" (your and JB's vote)!

4 For whenever anyone says, “I am with Paul,” and another, “I am with Apollos,” are you not merely human?​

 

[JLB]

Bingo! You're right. That's exactly my point. Tell that to the professor (JB). He's the one that brought in Chapter 9:1. I just added a little context (9:6) to JB's thought process there.

It makes no sense to switch to a whole other section/topic of Scripture just because it has a phrase in it that you'd like to apply to the topic (unless and until you've demonstrated it's the same topic). Paul might be making the same point in Chapter 9 that he was in 1 Cor 3 AND he might not! Guess what? He's not.

Unless you think Paul's going to be eating the people he saves (but that don't make it through the fire), it "makes no sense". You're right.

Chapter 3 is about Paul's work/labor and reward. Chapter 9 is about Paul's qualification to do that work (his right's to his apostleship). Are they related? Sure! But I can guarantee you, that Paul doesn't think he's literally "placing people in the building (see your vote)" in either chapter. As my first post pointed out (that you guys jumped on as, oh what's the wording JB used, "Lol, this is funny") it is clearly God's job description (The Master Builder) not Paul's job description (the apostle that's like The Master Builder) to "place people in the building".

JB can't make the point that he's trying to make (that the work of Paul literally is the people that Paul saves) based on the Scripture being studied (1 Cor 3) so he jumps from the original passage to another one (Chapter 9's "Are you not my work in the Lord?") to try to make his point.

Look, I'm not so obstinate (close but not quite) that at first glance the phrase (It's not even a whole verse) "Are you not my work in the Lord?" doesn't sound just exactly like the verse that proves your vote is correct. However, when you actually go and read the context (at least the whole verse but better yet, the whole chapter) indeed JB's case makes "Absolutely no sense" (to use your words). That's my point!

Why? Because Paul's NOT saying that the people he evangelizes to are literally his "reward" if they survive the fire. He's saying "You [the Corinthian people] are his seal of apostleship in the Lord" As Deborah13 has already pointed out correctly (and more politely than me). I just demonstrated it further, less politely.

Paul means what he means in Chapter 3 and he means what he means in Chapter 9. But it's entirely possible (I say evident) that he doesn't mean he's the Master Builder/Planter who's literally "placing people in the building" in either chapter. That's NOT to say that God's not using Paul to build/plant people in the building or that the building is not the people. But the works of Paul, are exactly what he says they are. Paul's works!

God is clearly using Paul, Apollos, Ananias, you, me, JB and Judas (both of them) and Deborah (both of them) etc. to build God's building. Quite a privilege really, when you think about it.

But He laid The Foundation (Christ), The Corner Stone and it is "God Causing the increase" (in Chapter 3, Chapter 9 and Chapter 2014. God (not Paul) is using all of us to do just that. Some of our work's will be rewarded (each individually, per chapter 3) and some will not.

What a Master Builder He is, huh? Paul is working/laboring like Him, but Paul ain't Him. No human "places people in the building" (your and JB's vote)!

4 For whenever anyone says, “I am with Paul,” and another, “I am with Apollos,” are you not merely human?​

Is the building people, or something else/

Is what gets burned the building or something else?

 

[Deborah13]

Is the building people, or something else/

Is what gets burned the building or something else?

The incorrect teachings and doctrines that the worker taught that were not built on the foundational teachings that Paul taught about Christ, the gospel message and the doctrines of Christ.

 

[chessman]

Is the building people, or something else/

Yes. The building represents people for the umpteenth time. But read on.
God's people! God's building!
Agreed? I assume so, as you’ve agreed already and this point is a little hard to argue against.
16 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Is what gets burned the building or something else?

Something else! Work! Agreed?
Probably not as you didn’t get my point the first time or we wouldn’t still be discussing this topic. But it can be proven.

 

[JLB]

Yes. The building represents people for the umpteenth time. But read on.
God's people! God's building!
Agreed? I assume so, as you’ve agreed already and this point is a little hard to argue against.
16 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and the Spirit of God dwells in you?
Something else! Work! Agreed?
Probably not as you didn’t get my point the first time or we wouldn’t still be discussing this topic. But it can be proven.

Building = People.

Work = ?

Are you not my work in the Lord? 1 Corinthians 9:1

My bible says the Corinthians are Paul's work.

Work = people.

If Paul's work does not meet the standard of God on the Day of Judgement, then Paul's work, will be burn in the fires of God's Judgement.

The work is people.

What gets burned is the work.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The incorrect teachings and doctrines that the worker taught that were not built on the foundational teachings that Paul taught about Christ, the gospel message and the doctrines of Christ.

15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
1 Corinthians 3:15

The context of this scripture is salvation!

The work is the people.

Anyone here in this verse = the builder. The builder will be saved but his work, the people who he builds will not.

What is burned, and not saved is the work.


JLB

 

[chessman]

God's people! God's building!
Agreed?

I'll take that as a no since you chose not to answer the question directly.

My bible says the Corinthians are Paul's work.

JLB

No brother, your Bible says the Corinthian brothers are God's building and God's temple (not Paul's).

3:9-16 For we are ... God’s building (the temple of God). Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? ​

Your method of Bible study rips a verse (9:1) out of it's context and inserts it into another context (3:15) when astonishingly, verses 3:9 and 3:16 tells us who and what Paul is talking about in Chapter 3. All so that you can be right about the OP question. Amazing.

 

[JLB]

Chessman said -

I'll take that as a no since you chose not to answer the question directly.

Building = people

work = people

It's been answered.

 

[JLB]

Are you not my work in the Lord? 1 Corinthians 9:1


Same Apostle Paul.

Same Corinthian Church.


For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 1 Corinthians 3:9-10

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles--that a man has his father's wife!... 9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 1 Corinthians 5:1,9-12

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11


Same context!

People that don't inherit the kingdom of God, are sentenced to the fires of hell along with the devil.

Not inheriting the kingdom = burning in hell.


JLB

 

[chessman]

Building = people

work = people

It's been answered.

I know. God's people=God's Temple

1 Corinthians 3:16 (LEB) Do you not know that you are God’s temple and the Spirit of God dwells in you? ​

When Paul first got to Corinth, he found God's people there already.

Acts 18:9-11 (LEB) And the Lord said to Paul by a vision in the night, “Do not be afraid, but speak and do not keep silent, because I am with you and no one will attack you to harm you, because many people are mine in this city [Corinth].” So he stayed a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them. ​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"Are you not my work in the Lord?" (1 Corinthians 9:1 NASB)

We're in a sad place in the history of the church when people in the church say so many plain words of scripture, like the verse above, do not really mean what they say, and then strain and struggle to explain why they don't mean what they so plainly say. The list of passages they do this to is quite lengthy.

I got called on the carpet about this several years ago by a person struggling in their faith. After me talking to them and putting the popular spin on the plain words of scripture that many Christians do these days they came to the conclusion that the Bible can't really be understood because it doesn't really mean what it so plainly says. Instead of helping them with what I thought was my Biblical counsel I was actually hindering them and driving them away from the faith, not drawing them near as I had hoped. Not because they didn't like what they were hearing (who doesn't like their ears tickled?), but because I was showing them you can't trust the plain words of the Bible. People are not stupid. How can you trust a God that doesn't really mean what he says?

So, instead of denying the truth of their accusation (how could I?) I admitted they were right and repented of changing the plain words of scripture to mean something else so those words would conform to my predetermined beliefs. I had to have the courage to just take the scriptures for the truths they plainly teach. I'm inviting my brothers and sisters to have the courage to do the same.

 

[chessman]

"Are you not my work in the Lord?" (1 Corinthians 9:1 NASB)
We're in a sad place in the history of the church when people in the church say so many plain words of scripture, like the verse above, do not really mean what they say, and then strain and struggle to explain why they don't mean what they so plainly say.

First, once again. It’s not a verse as you keep "plainly saying". It’s a partial verse.

Secondly, yes it's sad. So, so sad when someone in the church today tries to pawn off a partial verse or even a phrase within a sentence as a complete doctrine because the rest of the verse
(and the very next one) gets ignored because it tells us “plainly” (even that someone and others) what it is Paul means by asking the question "Are you not my work in the Lord?"

1 Corinthians 9:1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? ​

Yes, Paul's an apostle and yes they are Paul's work in the Lord (as their apostle, but NOT as their savior that "places them in the building" as you want to say).

Paul’s talking about why he’s their apostle (not their savior) when he rhetorically asks them these questions.

His answer is yes I’m your apostle. He’s NOT saying I placed you in the building” as you and JLB are asserting.

I know this because he says so in the next verse. Paul’s work assignment is to be an apostle to them, not to “place them in the building”. That’s God’s job description. “God is causing the increase”

Paul’s NOT saying he “places them in the building” here or in 1 Cor 3. And I’ve already showed you how this cannot be true (you just don’t care to listen).

If Paul meant that what gets burned up in chapter 3 or in chapter 9 are people (as you are asserting) then what do you do with this “kludged verse”:

Who places people in the building and does not eat their offspring?​

Which is your 9:1b kludged with 3:15 together with 9:7?

Regardless, Paul provides the answer to his own questions in verse 9:1 in the very next verse, such that it’s obvious what he means by the question in the first place (and it’s NOT your meaning).

1 Corinthians 9:2 If to others I am not an apostle, yet indeed I am to you, for you are my seal of apostleship in the Lord.​

I'm inviting my brothers and sisters to have the courage to do the same.

When someone invites me to eat some kind of meat, I’ll ask them; “Well what is it?” And if they say it’s meat, just eat it. Immediately my nature is to be leery of that meat. I’ll sniff it and look at it real closely before consuming it. It might be chitlins or Pâté.

You are trying to feed me the meat that Paul “places people in the building” by the partial verse “Are you not my work...” and then inserting that back into 3:15:

“If anyone’s work is burned up…” to form a kluged together anti-OSAS verse:
“If anyone’s people they placed in the building is burned up…”

The problem that you’re not seeing is:

Let’s take an alternate verse (one much more closely related to 1 Cor 3:15 and do the same thing you do with 9:1d. Oh, I don’t know since we’re talking about 3:15 how about we use 3:16?

I’ve been pointing to this ever since my first post here.

you are God’s temple [I didn't say this Paul does!]​

So according to you anyone's Work in v15 = God’s temple (according to your methods)

15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss …​

If God’s temple is burned up, God will suffer loss … [the kludged verse]

I asked you before if you were okay with this doctrine (God will suffer loss). You said; Yes, God can (and has) cleansed his temple before. Fair enough, that’s true. But that wasn’t my point. The point I made was that God doesn’t just lose something or clean something out of his man built temple this time.

He’s losing the Temple foundational and cornerstoned by Christ (this time), the one founded on Christ Himself, per Paul. Plus, look at the rest of this kludged verse:

If God’s Temple is burned up, God will suffer loss, but God himself will be saved, but so as through fire.

Hmm? God Himself will be “saved as through fire”. Not my God! First off, God doesn’t need saving. And Secondly, God doesn’t need cleansing.

Your methods smell like chitlins cooking in Granny’s kitchen to me.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

chessman, why are you acting like I did not correct your misunderstanding of the argument? I can't respond to what you say until you understand the argument correctly.

 

[MarkT]

A spiritual understanding is what is required here.

Mt. 13:45 and Proverbs 2:1-5

Receive his words. Store up his commandments; make your ear attentive to wisdom and incline your heart to understanding. Happy is the man who finds wisdom,
and the man who gets understanding, for the gain from it is better than gain from silver and its profit better than gold. She is more precious than jewels,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

Jesus taught us to seek. And what do we seek? Gold, silver and precious jewels. It's like a treasure hidden in a field. We seek the knowledge of God, wisdom and the fruit of the Spirit - a quiet spirit, happiness. The gain from finding wisdom and understanding is what is lost if we build our house of wood, hay and straw (false teachings). What we lose is our closeness to the Lord; our reward, to sit at table close to the Lord Jesus. The more we seek, the more God gives us, the closer at table we get to the Lord.

So Paul is saying false teachings, teachings that don't come from God, will be tinder for the coming fire. False teachings will be burned up. Truth will survive. So false teachings will result in your losing your position at table next to the Lord.

 

[MarkT]

Our goal is to get as close to the Lord as possible. Then maybe one day you will be able to say, as Paul does, that you have the mind of Christ. So going to church and getting preached at is not the way to get close to the Lord. Read the Bible. I know this is not what many of you want to hear.

 

[JLB]

A spiritual understanding is what is required here.

Mt. 13:45 and Proverbs 2:1-5

Receive his words. Store up his commandments; make your ear attentive to wisdom and incline your heart to understanding. Happy is the man who finds wisdom,
and the man who gets understanding, for the gain from it is better than gain from silver and its profit better than gold. She is more precious than jewels,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

Jesus taught us to seek. And what do we seek? Gold, silver and precious jewels. It's like a treasure hidden in a field. We seek the knowledge of God, wisdom and the fruit of the Spirit - a quiet spirit, happiness. The gain from finding wisdom and understanding is what is lost if we build our house of wood, hay and straw (false teachings). What we lose is our closeness to the Lord; our reward, to sit at table close to the Lord Jesus. The more we seek, the more God gives us, the closer at table we get to the Lord.

So Paul is saying false teachings, teachings that don't come from God, will be tinder for the coming fire. False teachings will be burned up. Truth will survive. So false teachings will result in your losing your position at table next to the Lord.

Do you believe the people themselves will pass through the fire, or will the teachings that are in the people, will somehow pass through the fire, without the people themselves passing through the fire?


Thanks for your input.


JLB

 

[MarkT]

Do you believe the people themselves will pass through the fire, or will the teachings that are in the people, will somehow pass through the fire, without the people themselves passing through the fire?

What I'm saying is whatever a man builds on the foundation, Jesus Christ and him crucified, if he is wrong, then he will suffer a loss. So you have to be careful when you are building that your understanding comes from God and it is not some false teaching. When the Lord returns he will judge. Then whatever is in the heart is what will be revealed; whether the people have stored up gold and silver and precious stones for themselves or wood and hay and stubble; the fire will test what sort of work it is. If what is built on the foundation survives, the man will receive a reward.

 

[JLB]

What I'm saying is whatever a man builds on the foundation, Jesus Christ and him crucified, if he is wrong, then he will suffer a loss. So you have to be careful when you are building that you are getting the true word of God and not some false teaching. When the Lord returns he will judge. Then whatever is in the heart is what will be revealed; whether the people have stored up gold and silver and precious stones for themselves or wood and hay and stubble; the fire will test what sort of work it is. If what is built on the foundation survives, the man will receive a reward.

Who passes through the fire, the people or the teaching.

It looks as if the is salvation involved, but he himself will be saved...

It looks as if what gets burned doesn't get saved...

If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved...

12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 1 Corinthians 3:12-15


JLB

 

[JLB]

11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. Romans 13:11-14