What is the work of the builder that will burn?

[Deborah13]

10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid,which is Jesus Christ.

This is what I understand Paul to be talking about.

Paul preach a message of the gospel who's foundation is Jesus Christ. Each person who witnesses or spreads the message must be careful how he builds on that gospel message so as to not corrupt it.
FOR if they build on any other foundation other than the one Paul preached, which is Christ those works that he has done will be burnt up.
It is not the people he preached to that will be burnt, for some will find the Lord even with bad preaching, but his works will be burnt up because they were not built on the correct foundation or were not completely accurate.
He will not receive any reward for those things.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am really confused by this thread .Are you asking what are the things that will be burned at the Bema Seat judgment that we have done while in our bodies on earth?The judgment of the believers?

To avoid opening up a bunny trail (though I love bunnies....they taste like chicken), let's just stick to the fire Paul is talking about where things will get burned up.

"If any man's work which he has built..." (vs. 14)

Let me ask you this: If you were going to "test the quality of each man's work" (vs.13)--that is, what they built--would you come to me, or would you go to what they built?

 

[Kathi]

To avoid opening up a bunny trail (though I love bunnies....they taste like chicken), let's just stick to the fire Paul is talking about where things will get burned up.

"If any man's work which he has built..." (vs. 14)

Let me ask you this: If you were going to "test the quality of each man's work" (vs.13)--that is, what they built--would you come to me, or would you go to what they built?

If we stick to the fire that burns up rewards what does that involve?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is none of the above. It is Good and bad DEEDS done in the flesh. And it is DEEDS not people who get burned up.

Well, that's what choice # 1 is driving at. 'Good' deeds being Spirit-led works of the believer, while 'bad' works being the effort of flesh alone to serve God.

It clearly does not say," If any mans men/people are burned up, he will suffer loss;...."

Scripturally, what gets built on the foundation of Christ (and the prophets and the apostles) are individual believers:

"5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house..." (1 Peter 1:5 NASB)

"...God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit." (Ephesians 2:19-22 NASB)

A household and City that is built, symbolically, of precious metals and gems ("gold, silver, precious stones" 1 Corinthians 3:12 NASB)--materials, unlike hay, wood, straw, and stubble, that can withstand fire:

10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city,Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.
18 The material of the wall was jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass.19 The foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation stone was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald; 20 the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth,chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst." (Revelation 20: NASB)

When coupled with the fact that one of the crowns we will glory in in the kingdom is the crown of other believers we labored to establish in the kingdom we can see that the 'work' that Paul says may or may not burn up in the fire are other people you have labored to place in the kingdom of God--a kingdom of God that will be purged by fire at the end of this age when the angels "will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:41-42 NASB).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If we stick to the fire that burns up rewards what does that involve?

I do think it's clear that since he makes the point that the laborer himself 'is saved' he's talking about the fire of the coming Judgment where a person is either saved, or they are not saved. What gets burned up at that Judgement? People, of course--Matthew 13:30,41-43 NASB.

We don't have to know the exact nature of the burning, just that it happens, and that it happens to the unsaved. I'm showing that the reward that either gets burned up, or doesn't get burned up, for the laborer passing through that same fire are other people.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This is what I understand Paul to be talking about.

Paul preach a message of the gospel who's foundation is Jesus Christ. Each person who witnesses or spreads the message must be careful how he builds on that gospel message so as to not corrupt it.

Correct. Which is the very reason Paul is even explaining this to the Corinthians. He's saying to them, "what value is it to me to build you up into something that won't pass safely through the coming Judgment of fire? What reward do I have waiting for me if I do that?"

FOR if they build on any other foundation other than the one Paul preached, which is Christ those works that he has done will be burnt up.

Actually, I think the point he is making is there is only one foundation to build on, not that other foundations can be laid.

"11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid,which is Jesus Christ." (1 Corinthians 3:11 NASB)

It seems the problem is with building improperly on that one and only foundation, not laying different and false foundations.

It is not the people he preached to that will be burnt, for some will find the Lord even with bad preaching...

Surely, but that still means no reward for the one with a false gospel that can't build people up into that which can withstand the fires of the coming Judgment.

...but his works will be burnt up because they were not built on the correct foundation or were not completely accurate.
He will not receive any reward for those things.

Surely an inaccurate gospel that can not save people will result in those people being burned up in the Judgment, and will surely result in zero reward for the person who taught it to them, whatever your understanding of the rewards is. But the point is this is clearly about what gets placed on the one and only foundation there is--Jesus Christ--whether it be able to withstand fire, or not.

Jesus himself talks about this purging of people out of his kingdom by fire at his second coming. These are people who are set up in the kingdom, but who really don't belong there (we don't need to debate why they don't belong there, or if they ever did). That pretty much describes the church, IMO. A similar parable to describe this condition of falseness residing in the kingdom is how when the king comes to see the guests at the wedding those who don't have wedding clothes are cast out (Matthew 22:11-14 NASB), and the parable of the servants in the household who are found 'not doing' when the master returns and they are assigned the "place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 24:50-51 NASB), another reference to the burning of Judgment at the end of the age.

 

[Kathi]

I do think it's clear that since he makes the point that the laborer himself 'is saved' he's talking about the fire of the coming Judgment where a person is either saved, or they are not saved. What gets burned up at that Judgement? People, of course--Matthew 13:30,41-43 NASB.

We don't have to know the exact nature of the burning, just that it happens, and that it happens to the unsaved. I'm showing that the reward that either gets burned up, or doesn't get burned up, for the laborer passing through that same fire are other people.

I am OSAS.I think if a person has truly become a born again Christian and has asked God into their life they will go to heaven.The fire at the Bema Seat judgment for believer will not destroy their body.But loss of reward could be a very big deal.We do not know.The Great White Throne judgment for the nonbelievers will not burn up their body as well.They will exist consciously for an eternity in a burning hell of torment.

 

[gr8grace3]

Scripturally, what gets built on the foundation of Christ (and the prophets and the apostles) are individual believers:

"5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house..." (1 Peter 1:5 NASB)

"...God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit." (Ephesians 2:19-22 NASB)

A household and City that is built, symbolically, of precious metals and gems ("gold, silver, precious stones" 1 Corinthians 3:12 NASB)--materials, unlike hay, wood, straw, and stubble, that can withstand fire:

10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city,Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.
18 The material of the wall was jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass.19 The foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation stone was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald; 20 the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth,chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst." (Revelation 20: NASB)

When coupled with the fact that one of the crowns we will glory in in the kingdom is the crown of other believers we labored to establish in the kingdom we can see that the 'work' that Paul says may or may not burn up in the fire are other people you have labored to place in the kingdom of God--a kingdom of God that will be purged by fire at the end of this age when the angels "will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:41-42 NASB).[/QUOTE]

So we lose out if some one walks away. It would be even worse for us if we just gave up on the other person?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So we lose out if some one walks away.

Yes. Unless you can think of a way that I can "boast on the Day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing" in regard to the person who I preached to but who does not "hold out the word of life". (Philippians 2:16 NASB)

It would be even worse for us if we just gave up on the other person?

The loss of reward is still the same if the person we gave up on doesn't make it through the Judgment anyway. If they do make it perhaps we may have no credit due us for them being there. It may belong to someone else.

 

[Deborah13]

Correct. Which is the very reason Paul is even explaining this to the Corinthians. He's saying to them, "what value is it to me to build you up into something that won't pass safely through the coming Judgment of fire? What reward do I have waiting for me if I do that?"

Actually, I think the point he is making is there is only one foundation to build on, not that other foundations can be laid.

"11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid,which is Jesus Christ." (1 Corinthians 3:11 NASB)

It seems the problem is with building improperly on that one and only foundation, not laying different and false foundations.

Surely, but that still means no reward for the one with a false gospel that can't build people up into that which can withstand the fires of the coming Judgment.

I agree. Any other foundation would be a false gospel.

Surely an inaccurate gospel that can not save people will result in those people being burned up in the Judgment, and will surely result in zero reward for the person who taught it to them, whatever your understanding of the rewards is. But the point is this is clearly about what gets placed on the one and only foundation there is--Jesus Christ--whether it be able to withstand fire, or not.

I think one can teach the correct foundation of Christ but then building on it add to it false doctrines such as no use of musical instruments in the church, water baptism saves, and many of the things that the Jews taught one Must do such as physical circumcision.
I believe these are the things that will be burnt up. As long as they were not intentionally done to discredit the foundation of Christ, they will be burnt off but the foundation will remain.
Verse 15
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Jesus himself talks about this purging of people out of his kingdom by fire at his second coming. These are people who are set up in the kingdom, but who really don't belong there (we don't need to debate why they don't belong there, or if they ever did). That pretty much describes the church, IMO. A similar parable to describe this condition of falseness residing in the kingdom is how when the king comes to see the guests at the wedding those who don't have wedding clothes are cast out (Matthew 22:11-14 NASB), and the parable of the servants in the household who are found 'not doing' when the master returns and they are assigned the "place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 24:50-51 NASB), another reference to the burning of Judgment at the end of the age.

 

[Kathi]

What are those 5 crown that will be our reward?
http://www.gotquestions.org/heavenly-crowns.html
Will there be other rewards besides the crowns?That could very well be the case.

 

[gr8grace3]

Yes. Unless you can think of a way that I can "boast on the Day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing" in regard to the person who I preached to but who does not "hold out the word of life". (Philippians 2:16 NASB)


The loss of reward is still the same if the person we gave up on doesn't make it through the Judgment anyway. If they do make it perhaps we may have no credit due us for them being there. It may belong to someone else.

This is just Swiss Cheese and confusion reigns. I want to make sure I am Clearly reading you right.

We will lose reward(a person) if someone we labor over walks away? And That reward lost is a ex-believer or convert to Christ And the Lost reward is a human being that burns forever and ever in the lake of Fire. And we are held responsible for that persons demise in the lake of fire? Do you not see the implications of all this?

 

[Kathi]

This is just Swiss Cheese and confusion reigns. I want to make sure I am Clearly reading you right.

We will lose reward(a person) if someone we labor over walks away? And That reward lost is a ex-believer or convert to Christ And the Lost reward is a human being that burns forever and ever in the lake of Fire. And we are held responsible for that persons demise in the lake of fire? Do you not see the implications of all this?

 

[gr8grace3]

Kathi, I have read hundreds of posts from JLB and Jethro. I do not skim over what they type and post. This is a cumulative response from all their posts.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I agree. Any other foundation would be a false gospel.



I think one can teach the correct foundation of Christ but then building on it add to it false doctrines such as no use of musical instruments in the church, water baptism saves, and many of the things that the Jews taught one Must do such as physical circumcision.
I believe these are the things that will be burnt up. As long as they were not intentionally done to discredit the foundation of Christ, they will be burnt off but the foundation will remain.
Verse 15
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

This is in line with the traditional view of having one's work burned up and losing any reward connected with that work.

While it's certainly true these kinds of personal works you speak of will not be rewarded, and in that sense will not pass through the Judgment with us into the kingdom, the context of the passage is building the building of God (and working the field of God). Some of that which is built in the building of God will not survive the Judgment of fire, while some will. Only that which will pass through will be a reward in the kingdom for the laborer who did that work.

This is especially significant to Paul, who had such a dramatic call to the ministry. The expectation for him to bring more than himself through the flames of Judgment and into the kingdom are much greater. In fact, the scriptures suggest he simply has no excuse not to.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What are those 5 crown that will be our reward?
http://www.gotquestions.org/heavenly-crowns.html
Will there be other rewards besides the crowns?That could very well be the case.

Well, unless I missed it, the article does leave out the crown of believers spoken about in scripture.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This is just Swiss Cheese and confusion reigns.

Good grief, who doesn't like swiss cheese?
(I suppose I should be glad you didn't call it a load of Limburger cheese.)

I want to make sure I am Clearly reading you right.

We will lose reward(a person) if someone we labor over walks away?

Yes. Or we can lose the potential reward for the one we labored in the gospel for (Galatians 4:19 NASB), but who never responded. But let's not turn this into a OSAS/non-OSAS thread, lol. That's NOT the point of this thread.

And That reward lost is a ex-believer or convert to Christ And the Lost reward is a human being that burns forever and ever in the lake of Fire.

Well, in my opinion, yes, it could be an ex-believer who robs you of your reward for leading them to Christ in the first place because they aren't there in the kingdom with you to be a crown of glory for you. But, as I say, let's leave the OSAS aspect of this out of the discussion. It isn't necessary to discuss that part of it to see the truth of what I'm sharing.

And we are held responsible for that persons demise in the lake of fire?

Good Lord, no. It's up to them if they want to believe, or not, but I do think there is a varying degree of 'by fire' for the one who is saved but who has no rewards to show for his labor in the kingdom in this life. What I mean is Paul talks about the necessity for him to be diligent to the calling he has received. He really doesn't have any excuse to not be careful and diligent and trustworthy in the special calling he has received to work on the building of God. Any lack of motivation or diligence on his part that causes a lack of rewards for him is going to make it hotter on that day for him than a lack of motivation or diligence will make that day hot for us 'not particularly gifted' run of the mill believers. It's all relative to our calling and giftedness...and faith to operate in that gift (Romans 12:6-8 NASB). An actual evangelist who has no work to be rewarded in the kingdom, because of sloth, is going to have a hotter time of it at the Judgment than someone who is not an evangelist and who also doesn't have work to be rewarded in the kingdom at the Judgment. Makes sense.

Do you not see the implications of all this?

Well, since you seem to be misunderstanding what I'm actually saying more than you are understanding it, no, I don't see the implications of all this that you apparently do.

 

[JLB]

Kathi, I have read hundreds of posts from JLB and Jethro. I do not skim over what they type and post. This is a cumulative response from all their posts.

I haven't even posted the many other scriptures that I use to prove from the scriptures that OSAS is a false doctrine.

I am only discussing this scripture that Jethro posted.

So how could this possibly be considered a cumulative response from all their posts.

JLB

 

[Kathi]

I haven't even posted the many other scriptures that I use to prove from the scriptures that OSAS is a false doctrine.

I am only discussing this scripture that Jethro posted.

So how could this possibly be considered a cumulative response from all their posts.

JLB

Then I guess we will not longer discuss OSAS.It is a waste of time.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then I guess we will not longer discuss OSAS.It is a waste of time.

So, then let's talk about what the 'work' is that may or may not get burned up at the Judgment.