When did the Church begin?

[JLB]

The only two places in the NT people were baptized with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (and neither being baptized with the HS or speaking in tongues had to do with their personal salvation) was the Apostles in Acts 2 and Gentiles in Acts 10 which fulfilled Joel's prophecy whereby that does not occur today.

And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:1-6

• Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

• And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

You are extremely misinformed about this subject.
What about all the Corinthians who received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues?





JLB

 

[JLB]

Acts 2:38 of the NT was not yet in effect during Christ's earthly ministry

So your position is no one was saved through the preaching of Christ, when His disciples would then baptize those who believed?


Interesting.


Im beginning to think you believe only people in your denomination are saved.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes, men were saved by Jesus' preaching. At the time of Jesus' earthly ministry the OT law was still in effect

More misinformation as the scriptures teach us the truth.


“The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. Luke 16:16


I hope through this discussion you are learning that not everything your denomination has indoctrinated you with is true.




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

We are baptized into Christ by the Spirit, not by water baptism.

I don't agree.
"Spirit baptism" doesn't meet the "picture" supplied by Rom 6:5..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"
As water baptism is an actual "burial", how does the baptism of the Holy Ghost supersede that?
I see no likeness to a "burial" in the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Besides, as Acts 2:38 lists the sequence Peter was familiar with, ie, repentance from sin, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, AND THEN the gift of the Holy Ghost, it doesn't make sense to conclude both the baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost are the same thing.

 

[Hopeful]

What does receiving the Holy Spirit mean to you?

The Holy Ghost is a gift for those who turn from sin and are washed, sanctified by the blood of Christ, at their baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their past sins.
It is a guide and protector for they who will live Godly lives from henceforth.

 

[Hopeful]

We appropriate what Jesus Christ did 2000 years ago, by faith.
By the obedience of faith. Believing and therefore obeying the Gospel.
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

• For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
• JLB

Amen to that...but calling on the name of the Lord is done at our water baptism "in the name of Jesus Christ" for the remission of past sins...like Paul was told to do by Ananias in Acts 22:16..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, we will receive the salvation of our soul, on the day of Judgement, when we hear these words:
Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
However, until then we are saved by faith. which means we have the hope of salvation because the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are His child.
JLB

I have faith that I "will be" saved on the last day.
Until then, it is up to me to keep manifesting that faith in all I do.

 

[JLB]

I don't agree.
"Spirit baptism" doesn't meet the "picture" supplied by Rom 6:5..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"
As water baptism is an actual "burial", how does the baptism of the Holy Ghost supersede that?

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13


There are three distinct baptisms in the scriptures with three distinct and different baptizers.


Would you care to discuss what the scriptures teach us about this?



JLB

 

[JLB]

I have faith that I "will be" saved on the last day.
Until then, it is up to me to keep manifesting that faith in all I do.

Wonderful.

Amen.

I agree.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Amen to that...but calling on the name of the Lord is done at our water baptism "in the name of Jesus Christ" for the remission of past sins...like Paul was told to do by Ananias in Acts 22:16..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Don’t get me wrong I encourage everyone to be baptized in water.

It’s biblical.

However If you don’t understand that there are three different baptisms with three different baptizers, you will be locked into just water baptism. You will only see water baptism.


Our sins are washed away by the Spirit, through the blood of Jesus Christ by believing and therefore obeying the Gospel.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
Romans 10:9-13

• For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

JLB

 

[JLB]

The Holy Ghost is a gift for those who turn from sin and are washed, sanctified by the blood of Christ, at their baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their past sins.
It is a guide and protector for they who will live Godly lives from henceforth.

We are sanctified when we repent, not repent of sins.

Repent is a specific command and it’s how a person is transferred from one kingdom to another, because it’s a commitment to serve and obey Jesus Christ as your Lord.


It‘s the command of God for all to obey of they want to be a part of God’s Kingdom.



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

This scripture must be in unity with 1 Cor 6:11..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
Both apply to the initial steps of belief.
They are inseparable.
Water baptism without the Spirit, is a bath or swim.
The Spirit, without water baptism of a believer, is a promise waiting to be given.
Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Can't you see the sequence?

There are three distinct baptisms in the scriptures with three distinct and different baptizers.
Would you care to discuss what the scriptures teach us about this?

There are several baptisms mentioned in scripture.
More than three.
Which are you referring to?

 

[Hopeful]

Don’t get me wrong I encourage everyone to be baptized in water.
It’s biblical.

For what purpose are men baptized in water, if you encourage it?

However If you don’t understand that there are three different baptisms with three different baptizers, you will be locked into just water baptism. You will only see water baptism.

It is the one you minimize.

Our sins are washed away by the Spirit, through the blood of Jesus Christ by believing and therefore obeying the Gospel.

That doesn't square up with Acts 2:38 or Acts 22:16.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
Romans 10:9-13

Done in an exemplary manner, in Acts 22:16

 

[Hopeful]

We are sanctified when we repent, not repent of sins.

Scripture, please.

[/QUOTE]Repent is a specific command and it’s how a person is transferred from one kingdom to another, because it’s a commitment to serve and obey Jesus Christ as your Lord.[/QUOTE]
Scripture, please.

It‘s the command of God for all to obey of they want to be a part of God’s Kingdom.

So is water baptism, according to Jesus in Matt 28:19.

 

[Corn Pop]

Mary went to the disciples with the news: I have seen the Lord

 

[jerry63935]

As Peter said in Acts 2:38, by "baptism for the remission of sins in the name of Jesus Christ".

is a bases but you have to move on past acts 2:38 justification has done been brought up .justification would not be possible with out the the death burial resurrection

 

[JLB]

Water baptism without the Spirit, is a bath or swim.

Water baptism has nothing to do with receiving the Spirit.


Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17

• They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

These folks had received the Gospel message, and been baptized in water.

They had not received the Holy Spirit.

• they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.

I know you read what the plain words of scripture say.

• when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.

These had been baptized in water but had not received the Holy Spirit.

• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Scripture, please.

Here is the Gospel Paul was commissioned to preach to the Gentiles.


But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20

• and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God,

Repent means turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God then by default you are called to turn away from Satan as your lord.

The way we obey the Gospel command to repent, is to confess Jesus as Lord.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is called the obedience of faith. It’s God’s command to all nations. Repent.

If you want to be in the kingdom of God then “bend the knee“ to Christ and confess Him as Lord.


He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, Colossians 1:13




AMEN.




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Water baptism has nothing to do with receiving the Spirit.

Nothing but the cleansing of the temple of God...us.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17

• They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
• These folks had received the Gospel message, and been baptized in water.

They had not received the Holy Spirit.

• they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.

I know you read what the plain words of scripture say.

• when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.

These had been baptized in water but had not received the Holy Spirit.

• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

God did it this way in order to show that the laying on of hands could also be a means of transferring (?) the gift of the Holy Ghost.
In Simon's case, it also showed that without repentance from sin, it would not be given.
The Spirit of God will not reside in a polluted temple.
Remission of sins comes first in all cases but Cornelius', the first Gentiles to receive Christ.
His reception of the Holy Spirit before baptism was an example to the Jews.

 

[Hopeful]

Here is the Gospel Paul was commissioned to preach to the Gentiles.


But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20

• and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God,

Repent means turn to God.
If you are called to turn to God then by default you are called to turn away from Satan as your lord.
The way we obey the Gospel command to repent, is to confess Jesus as Lord.
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10
With the mouth confession is made unto salvation
This is called the obedience of faith. It’s God’s command to all nations. Repent.
If you want to be in the kingdom of God then “bend the knee“ to Christ and confess Him as Lord.
He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, Colossians 1:13
AMEN.
JLB

I agree that repentance of sin is the turning to God and away from the devil.
Just as Peter illustrated in Acts 2:38.
But the calling on the name of the Lord is done when we are water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Acts 22:16)
Baptism is also commanded by Jesus. (Matt 28:19)