When did the Law pass or has it passed away?

[John 8:32]

Here's another example of Paul consulting the authority of a law many insist got abolished and no longer applicable to the people of God to teach the gentile church:

Referring to marriage, he says...
"15 ...if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases" (1 Corinthians 7:15 NASB)

Which comes right out of the law of Moses:

"14 It shall be, if you are not pleased with her, then you shall let her go wherever she wishes" (Deuteronomy 21:14 NASB)

Jesus over rules the handwriting of requirement in the law of Moses by saying, because of the hardness of your heart Moses allowed you to divorce... Now get what He says at the end of this verse!!!

But from the beginning it was not so! Matthew 19:8

Thank you for making my point!

JLB

So Jesus overrules? OK, same chapter...

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The Ten Commandments.

Jesus overrules?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So the first thing everyone thinks is that Christ DID do away with the Law. Upon reading the rest of Mat 5 and 6 and 7, we see that He added the spiritual component to the Law that Israel could not understand because they did not have the Holy Spirit.

so let me ask you, when did it become acceptable to murder? To commit Adultery? To Lie? Are these Laws still in effect? If not, they are not sin...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

So tell me, are the Ten Commandments done away? Or did Christ add a spiritual component to them, such as...

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

perfect:

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

In other words, keeping these Laws in the spiritual sense is becoming complete, of full age, a mature Christian.

Are under the impression that the 10 Commandments somehow originated with Moses?

You shall have no other gods before Me.

By choosing to obey Satan, rather than God, Adam clearly violated the first commandment.

Abraham walked in God's commandments 430 years before the Law of Moses.


JLB

No, and my posts show that the Law was in full force before Adam...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Satan was a murderer from the beginning and a liar.

Cain was warned of sin...

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

For Cain to sin there had to be Law. When there is no Law, there is no sin.

 

[JLB]

Jesus overrules?

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

That statement is in the context of what Christ said. Of course He has all power, He was the God of the old testament and that diatribe of mine was menat to show that Christ upheld the Law, not destroyed it.

No one said He "destroyed" the Torah. He fulfilled it.

The Law of Moses however was temporary, always meant to be replace.

The Law of God contained within the law of Moses is Eternal.

The law of Moses revealed God's Law the was previously unwritten, and only known by those who walked with Him.

The law of Moses was meant for the children of Israel in the promised land.

The Law of God that Abraham walked in was meant to "Go into all the world" for he was to be a father of many nations.

The Seed who came has taken the first out of the way and established the New. The first became obsolete when He declared it to be by Jeremiah and it vanished away at the cross.
Jeremiah 31:31, Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 10:9, Galatians 3:19


JLB

 

[John 8:32]

Jesus overrules?

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

That statement is in the context of what Christ said. Of course He has all power, He was the God of the old testament and that diatribe of mine was menat to show that Christ upheld the Law, not destroyed it.

No one said He "destroyed" the Torah. He fulfilled it.

And a rose by any other name...

If by fulfill you mean no longer in effect, then you mean destroy.

The Law of Moses however was temporary, always meant to be replace.

And that is why Christ said this...

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Law of God contained within the law of Moses is Eternal.

Please enumerate the Law of God contained within the Law of Moses for me? I seem to have trouble distinguishing it.

The law of Moses revealed God's Law the was previously unwritten, and only known by those who walked with Him.

And you know this how? You were there? You know that no one had God's Law in written form prior to Mt. Sinai? Moses had a pretty good memory then...

Exo 18:16 When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws.

The law of Moses was meant for the children of Israel in the promised land.

and yet we read...

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

And Paul instructing a gentile church in Rome...

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And Corinth...

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

The Law of God that Abraham walked in was meant to "Go into all the world" for he was to be a father of many nations.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Pretty specific here about the Commandments, Statutes and Laws.

The Seed who came has taken the first out of the way and established the New. The first became obsolete when He declared it to be by Jeremiah and it vanished away at the cross.
Jeremiah 31:31, Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 10:9, Galatians 3:19


JLB

And here you confuse the Law and the Covenants...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

God is not going to change the Law, He is changing the Covenant and then write the Law in hearts and minds as the next scripture you quoted points out...

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

And in this one, a cursory read of the preceeding verses shows that it concerns the replacement of animal sacrifices with the perfect sacrifice of Christ...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

And then there is this one...

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

What was added because of transgressions? what would you add to something because someone transgressed the Law? (I John 3:4) More Law defining transgressions? What was added is plainly explained in the book of Hebrews and all we have to do is read the same passage in Hebrews 10 but extend it to verse 10...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

When God gave the Ten Commandments He did not add anything to them...

Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

So what was added?

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

Now why did He have to add the ceremonial Laws of sacrifice?

Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

In fact God says...

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

So they were given a teacher, a schoolmaster that would show them what was coming...

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

What Law was a shadow Christ and Him becoming the perfect sacrifice for sin?

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The ceremonial Laws of animal sacrifices...

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

These Laws of animal sacrifices were a bloody reminder of the price of sin (the transgression of the Law). The blood shed was a shadow of...

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Animal sacrifices were the shadow of the blood of Christ shed for our sins that we might be justified. That our sins might be forgiven...

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Now after faith in the sacrifice of Christ to save us has come, there is no longer a need for animal sacrifices, just as we read in Hebrews 10.

 

[JLB]

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Levitical Priesthood and all animal sacrifices, and Sabbaths and feast days as well as food laws, temple and tabernacle requirements, seem to be more than a jot and tittle.

JLB

 

[John 8:32]

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Levitical Priesthood and all animal sacrifices, and Sabbaths and feast days as well as food laws, temple and tabernacle requirements, seem to be more than a jot and tittle.

JLB

Hmmm, I don't see your point? Not a jot or tittle will pass until all is fulfilled. All is not fulfilled, so none has passed.

 

[Good News Bob]

As someone else said, there seems to be a misconception that the commandments of God originate with Moses. But just looking to the old covenants it's pretty obvious that Israel gaining a king in the form of David is a pretty big change- and Saul sure gets envious. And when David asks his subordinates to do supposedly unrighteousness, they do so and the fault rests with the king. But in Jesus there is no fault because the faults belong to Moses and David etc. Does Paul contradict Jesus? Who doesn't?

 

[Sparkey]

I found myself, in another thread, speaking about Jesus and the Rich Man.


It was located in General Talk so we don't have any (or much) of the back and forth or the take some from here, some from there, and combine them into dogma thing that we see so often in the Apologetics and Theology area (a.k.a. "The Wilderness"). It's just 2 posts, and hey! they aren't long. I don't want to copy-pasta the whole posts but thought I'd link to them here. Pardon the title of the thread though. The link that I'm giving is part of my response in a side-track sub-discussion in thread. (Yes, that happens in General Talk too as well as here). We (another brother and I) were speaking about the nature of "skepticism" but I think that the overruling issue discussed there deserves a mention here.

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What I'd like to bring here is the observation that Jesus, while fulfilling the whole law, was asked a question, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”

And after mentioning that Only God is Good, Jesus replied, "You know the commandments..." and our Lord listed several.

To which the Rich man said in reply, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”

What was the response of the Lord? Did he preach about how none could reach our heavenly Father through righteous acts? Did Jesus contradict himself? Did our Lord hold the rich dude's statement up to critically examine it in the light of his own upright acts? What did Jesus do???

Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him.

Jesus loved him. What's wrong with that?

 

[JLB]

What I'd like to bring here is the observation that Jesus, while fulfilling the whole law, was asked a question, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?†And after mentioning that Only God is Good, Jesus replied, "You know the commandments..." and our Lord listed several. To which the Rich man said in reply, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.â€

Clearly in this example we see the "Law" given to this this rich man on a personalized one on one basis, as it was in the beginning with Adam and Noah and with Abraham.

18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 19 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 20 You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not bear false witness,' 'Honor your father and your mother.' " 21 And he said, "All these things I have kept from my youth." 22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich. Luke 18:18-23

The Law for mankind in the beginning was do not partake of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil.

I say mankind, because we were yet contained in Adam's loins.

All we can ever get from that tree is do this don't do that...

However the righteousness that comes from hearing His Voice and obeying is spawned in the crucible of relationship.

Noah moved with godly fear and built an Ark...

Abraham obeyed when God told him to get up out of his country and go to a land...

Faith comes from hearing God speak to us.

It becomes a living faith when we obey what He says.

Faith without the act of doing what He says is dead.

Without Abraham obeying and getting out of his country and going to the land God had for him, there would be no fathering of a great nation.

Without obeying His Voice and keeping His charge, all of the keeping "feast days" and circumcision and Sabbaths and on and on.. amounts to nothing but dead works that absolutely do not please God.

Eternal life comes from every word that proceed out of His mouth.

Eternal life is knowing God.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's interesting that he would make an appeal to the authority of a law that some insist is abolished.

The problem is, "the some who are insisting" is Paul and the Apostles and the Holy Spirit.

We who can read what they taught us, refer to these writings.

JLB

Here's another example of Paul consulting the authority of a law many insist got abolished and no longer applicable to the people of God to teach the gentile church:

Referring to marriage, he says...
"15 ...if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases" (1 Corinthians 7:15 NASB)

Which comes right out of the law of Moses:

"14 It shall be, if you are not pleased with her, then you shall let her go wherever she wishes" (Deuteronomy 21:14 NASB)

Jesus over rules the handwriting of requirement in the law of Moses by saying, because of the hardness of your heart Moses allowed you to divorce... Now get what He says at the end of this verse!!!

But from the beginning it was not so! Matthew 19:8

Thank you for making my point!

JLB

The ruling Rabbis at any point in time had the authority to change/ interpret the law. Moses made a Rabbinical judgment about divorce. Jesus made his own higher Rabbinical judgment about divorce. A change of law is NOT an abolishment of law. Just as the laying aside of various laws of worship in Hebrews is described as a change, or laying aside of law, not an abolishment of law. Remember the analogy of the traffic cop? Do all traffic laws get abolished just because a cop waved you through a red light, or made you stop and wait even though the light was green?


Anyway, gotta run, but where does the Sabbath, animal sacrifice, and circumcision as eternal laws of God, those you say were known before Moses, fit into your 'eternal law of God' doctrine? Obviously, they fit in your category of the 'temporary' that you say has been abolished. It's inconsistent. Explain.

 

[JLB]

It's inconsistent. Explain.

See above!

We both posted this morning at exactly the same time, 7:21 AM.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The ruling Rabbis at any point in time had the authority to change/ interpret the law.

I think this statement needs to explain in light of the Law that says to these "Rabbis" -

You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. John 8:44



He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me. John 14:24

His Spirit dwells in us to lead us as He led Jesus and Paul.

Even though His commandment says do not lie, many of us don't know the fullness of what that means... Annanias sure didn't, he thought he was doing good by selling his land and bringing the money to lay at the Apostles feet. Somewhere along the way he decided to "keep back" a portion for himself without anyone knowing. He just wouldn't say anything to anyone, except his wife, who was in full agreement, after all they were doing so much ans why shouldn't they keep a little, no one would ever know.

Well we know how that turned out.

"How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord?Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out." Acts 5:9


These were giving more than a tithe of the proceeds of the sale of the land? The Law of Moses says a tenth?


JLB

 

[John 8:32]

What I'd like to bring here is the observation that Jesus, while fulfilling the whole law, was asked a question, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” And after mentioning that Only God is Good, Jesus replied, "You know the commandments..." and our Lord listed several. To which the Rich man said in reply, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”

Clearly in this example we see the "Law" given to this this rich man on a personalized one on one basis, as it was in the beginning with Adam and Noah and with Abraham.

18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 19 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 20 You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not bear false witness,' 'Honor your father and your mother.' " 21 And he said, "All these things I have kept from my youth." 22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich. Luke 18:18-23

So, Jesus was teaching this rich young ruler to keep the Commandments. OK, that is what I have been saying. Christ requires us to keep the Commandments. Your point is?

The Law for mankind in the beginning was do not partake of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil.

I say mankind, because we were yet contained in Adam's loins.

All we can ever get from that tree is do this don't do that...

You mean things like Don't have other gods before the true God? Don't worship idols of wood and stone? Don't take God's name in a vain, or profane manner? Don't profane the day God madeholy? Honor your parents? Don't kill? Don't commit adultery? Don't steal? Don't Lie? Don't lust?

You ever read the Psalms much?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

Pretty sure you don't read Paul much (just selected verses)...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

What is he condemning here? The Law? No, SIN, the trangression of the Law...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Herein lies the problem, the Law is spiritual, but we (including Paul) are carnal (means fleshly). We have met the enemy and he is us.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This verse says a lot, it establishes that we are not dealing with law OR grace, we are dealing with law AND grace.

However the righteousness that comes from hearing His Voice and obeying is spawned in the crucible of relationship.

Noah moved with godly fear and built an Ark...

Abraham obeyed when God told him to get up out of his country and go to a land...

Was the Law known at the time of Adam?

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

And Paul says...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

No Law = no sin. Remember what Paul said?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Was there Law at the time of Abraham?

Gen 20:2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
Gen 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
Gen 20:4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
Gen 20:5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
Gen 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
Gen 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

Why would Abimelech die?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gen 20:8 Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid.

The men, plural, knew that adultery was a sin and that it brought death.

Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

Here is a gentile king very aware that adultery was sin. How'd he know that? If the law at that time was to get out of your country, how did that apply to adultery?

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

They did not sin in the manner of Adam and the tree, they knew that adultery was sin and the death penalty was exacted then as now.

Faith comes from hearing God speak to us.

It becomes a living faith when we obey what He says.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Paul chimes in...

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Faith without the act of doing what He says is dead.

Without Abraham obeying and getting out of his country and going to the land God had for him, there would be no fathering of a great nation.

This the only thing Abraham obeyed?

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham kept God's charge...

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

And Abraham obeyed God's Commandments, statutes and Laws.

Without obeying His Voice and keeping His charge, all of the keeping "feast days" and circumcision and Sabbaths and on and on.. amounts to nothing but dead works that absolutely do not please God.

Eternal life comes from every word that proceed out of His mouth.

Be very careful what you quote, these words came out of God's mouth...

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

And what follows is the Ten Commandments.

And so did these...

Lev 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

And what follows is God's Feast days, not xmas and Ishtar.

And so did these...

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Eternal life is knowing God.


JLB

I do know Him well enough to understand that He expects me to live according to His Laws, not according to my determination of good and evil, how about you?

 

[Sparkey]

...because we were yet contained in Adam's loins.

Noah moved...

Without Abraham obeying...

Greetings JLB. All these guys are dead. Faith in Jesus isn't, because He isn't dead, Jesus is risen.

Jesus was teaching this rich young ruler to keep the Commandments. OK, that is what I have been saying. Christ requires us to keep the Commandments. Your point is?

Hello John 8:32. God works in us both the will and the way. The law works the will and no way.

 

[JLB]

So, Jesus was teaching this rich young ruler to keep the Commandments. OK, that is what I have been saying. Christ requires us to keep the Commandments. Your point is?



You mean things like Don't have other gods before the true God? Don't worship idols of wood and stone? Don't take God's name in a vain, or profane manner? Don't profane the day God madeholy? Honor your parents? Don't kill? Don't commit adultery? Don't steal? Don't Lie? Don't lust?

You ever read the Psalms much?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

Pretty sure you don't read Paul much (just selected verses)...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

What is he condemning here? The Law? No, SIN, the trangression of the Law...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Herein lies the problem, the Law is spiritual, but we (including Paul) are carnal (means fleshly). We have met the enemy and he is us.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This verse says a lot, it establishes that we are not dealing with law OR grace, we are dealing with law AND grace.

However the righteousness that comes from hearing His Voice and obeying is spawned in the crucible of relationship.

Noah moved with godly fear and built an Ark...

Abraham obeyed when God told him to get up out of his country and go to a land...

Was the Law known at the time of Adam?

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

And Paul says...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

No Law = no sin. Remember what Paul said?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Was there Law at the time of Abraham?

Gen 20:2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
Gen 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
Gen 20:4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
Gen 20:5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
Gen 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
Gen 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

Why would Abimelech die?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gen 20:8 Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid.

The men, plural, knew that adultery was a sin and that it brought death.

Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

Here is a gentile king very aware that adultery was sin. How'd he know that? If the law at that time was to get out of your country, how did that apply to adultery?

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

They did not sin in the manner of Adam and the tree, they knew that adultery was sin and the death penalty was exacted then as now.

Faith comes from hearing God speak to us.

It becomes a living faith when we obey what He says.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Paul chimes in...

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Faith without the act of doing what He says is dead.

Without Abraham obeying and getting out of his country and going to the land God had for him, there would be no fathering of a great nation.

This the only thing Abraham obeyed?

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham kept God's charge...

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

And Abraham obeyed God's Commandments, statutes and Laws.

Without obeying His Voice and keeping His charge, all of the keeping "feast days" and circumcision and Sabbaths and on and on.. amounts to nothing but dead works that absolutely do not please God.

Eternal life comes from every word that proceed out of His mouth.

Be very careful what you quote, these words came out of God's mouth...

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

And what follows is the Ten Commandments.

And so did these...

Lev 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

And what follows is God's Feast days, not xmas and Ishtar.

And so did these...

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Eternal life is knowing God.


JLB

I do know Him well enough to understand that He expects me to live according to His Laws, not according to my determination of good and evil, how about you?

Key phrase - His Laws, not the Law of Moses which were temporary.

The Laws and precepts that Abraham walked in had nothing to do with keeping feast days, not eating pork, not wearing mixed clothing...

Furthermore Abraham was counted as righteous before circumcision.

The Law of Moses was temporary.

God's Law is Eternal.

As it is written -

39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40


JLB

 

[John 8:32]

So, Jesus was teaching this rich young ruler to keep the Commandments. OK, that is what I have been saying. Christ requires us to keep the Commandments. Your point is?



You mean things like Don't have other gods before the true God? Don't worship idols of wood and stone? Don't take God's name in a vain, or profane manner? Don't profane the day God madeholy? Honor your parents? Don't kill? Don't commit adultery? Don't steal? Don't Lie? Don't lust?

You ever read the Psalms much?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

Pretty sure you don't read Paul much (just selected verses)...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

What is he condemning here? The Law? No, SIN, the trangression of the Law...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Herein lies the problem, the Law is spiritual, but we (including Paul) are carnal (means fleshly). We have met the enemy and he is us.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This verse says a lot, it establishes that we are not dealing with law OR grace, we are dealing with law AND grace.



Was the Law known at the time of Adam?

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

And Paul says...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

No Law = no sin. Remember what Paul said?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Was there Law at the time of Abraham?

Gen 20:2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
Gen 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
Gen 20:4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
Gen 20:5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
Gen 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
Gen 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

Why would Abimelech die?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gen 20:8 Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid.

The men, plural, knew that adultery was a sin and that it brought death.

Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

Here is a gentile king very aware that adultery was sin. How'd he know that? If the law at that time was to get out of your country, how did that apply to adultery?

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

They did not sin in the manner of Adam and the tree, they knew that adultery was sin and the death penalty was exacted then as now.



Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Paul chimes in...

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Faith without the act of doing what He says is dead.

Without Abraham obeying and getting out of his country and going to the land God had for him, there would be no fathering of a great nation.

This the only thing Abraham obeyed?

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham kept God's charge...

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

And Abraham obeyed God's Commandments, statutes and Laws.

Without obeying His Voice and keeping His charge, all of the keeping "feast days" and circumcision and Sabbaths and on and on.. amounts to nothing but dead works that absolutely do not please God.

Eternal life comes from every word that proceed out of His mouth.

Be very careful what you quote, these words came out of God's mouth...

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

And what follows is the Ten Commandments.

And so did these...

Lev 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

And what follows is God's Feast days, not xmas and Ishtar.

And so did these...

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Eternal life is knowing God.


JLB

I do know Him well enough to understand that He expects me to live according to His Laws, not according to my determination of good and evil, how about you?

Key phrase - His Laws, not the Law of Moses which were temporary.

The Laws and precepts that Abraham walked in had nothing to do with keeping feast days, not eating pork, not wearing mixed clothing...

Furthermore Abraham was counted as righteous before circumcision.

The Law of Moses was temporary.

God's Law is Eternal.

As it is written -

39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40


JLB

Please tell me what the Law of Moses is compared to the Law of God.

 

[JLB]

Greetings JLB. All these guys are dead. Faith in Jesus isn't, because He isn't dead, Jesus is risen.

Jesus was teaching this rich young ruler to keep the Commandments. OK, that is what I have been saying. Christ requires us to keep the Commandments. Your point is?

Hello John 8:32. God works in us both the will and the way. The law works the will and no way.

Greetings JLB. All these guys are dead. Faith in Jesus isn't, because He isn't dead, Jesus is risen.

They are not dead. They are declared to be living, as The Lord has said - God is the God of the living, not of the dead.

JLB

 

[Sparkey]

They are not dead. They are declared to be living, as The Lord has said - God is the God of the living, not of the dead.

What you say is not disputed. What I say is that I shall not worship them. I spoke to show contrast between the first Adam and the second Adam. I don't hear you saying that I should worship the creation. What I see is that Jesus is the word of God. Heaven and Earth shall pass away. The word of God shall not pass away.

 

[JLB]

They are not dead. They are declared to be living, as The Lord has said - God is the God of the living, not of the dead.

What you say is not disputed. What I say is that I shall not worship them. I spoke to show contrast between the first Adam and the second Adam. I don't hear you saying that I should worship the creation. What I see is that Jesus is the word of God. Heaven and Earth shall pass away. The word of God shall not pass away.

Bro, I'm sorry I don't follow you.

Help me to understand how what you are saying relates to The law of Moses passing away.

JLB

 

[Sparkey]

Help me to understand how what you are saying relates to The law of Moses passing away.

I will try. Help me by walking in agreement if only but for a moment.

Starting simply, did our Jesus pass away? Yes, we know he did. Then what about the law? Did it also pass? Yes, it also did.
So then, back to our Lord? Was He raised and may we also be raised in the newness of life? Will our baptism in his death as symbolized by our water immersion be surpassed by what happens as we rise to the newness of life? Will the law, that works into us the will but does not establish or point to any way, except where it points to Jesus as The Way, work in us too? May we know that the law was designed to bring us to Jesus where there is life? Can stone give life? Or is life in the blood? Is power in the stone, or is it in the blood? Is there power in the Gift of God to us? There is. We are not abandoned by the one who states, "I shall never leave nor forsake you," we are risen even today as we join ourselves into the Life of our Risen Lord.

Hope this helps. I don't disagree with you but then again, I don't disagree with others who may give the appearance that they do disagree with you. All are joined in the Body of Christ and all are given life even as we lift each other up to our God who grants life and pray the we become more and more of what He wants in us and for us, that we become more like Him. This is the way eternal that I hear you preach.

 

[JLB]

Help me to understand how what you are saying relates to The law of Moses passing away.

I will try. Help me by walking in agreement if only but for a moment.

Starting simply, did our Jesus pass away? Yes, we know he did. Then what about the law? Did it also pass? Yes, it also did.
So then, back to our Lord? Was He raised and may we also be raised in the newness of life? Will our baptism in his death as symbolized by our water immersion be surpassed by what happens as we rise to the newness of life? Will the law, that works into us the will but does not establish or point to any way, except where it points to Jesus as The Way, work in us too? May we know that the law was designed to bring us to Jesus where there is life? Can stone give life? Or is life in the blood? Is power in the stone, or is it in the blood? Is there power in the Gift of God to us? There is. We are not abandoned by the one who states, "I shall never leave nor forsake you," we are risen even today as we join ourselves into the Life of our Risen Lord.

Hope this helps. I don't disagree with you but then again, I don't disagree with others who may give the appearance that they do disagree with you. All are joined in the Body of Christ and all are given life even as we lift each other up to our God who grants life and pray the we become more and more of what He wants in us and for us, that we become more like Him. This is the way eternal that I hear you preach.

Starting simply, did our Jesus pass away? Yes, we know he did. Then what about the law? Did it also pass? Yes, it also did.

The law of Moses has passed away. We are in agreement.

JLB