When does a believer receive eternal life?

[for_his_glory]

Winter Tapioca said: ↑
You're Debbie_55? from Grace Centered forums topic: Once saved always saved is wrong. I ask because that is where the post above is copied from and it was published 5 years ago.

Then how can what Jesus said in John 10:28 about recipients of eternal life be believed?

If OSAS is right, then what Jesus said is wrong. There is no middle ground here.

There is no way not to turn this into OSAS vs OSNAS debate.

When we first accept Christ as our Lord and Savior through pure repentance we are only at that time delivered from our past sins as we begin our personal relationship with Jesus and true faith that is Christ will lead us into Gods righteousness as we have been Spiritually renewed, John 3:3-7, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

The only thing that can separate us from the love of God is blasphemy against His Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:31, which means coming against God and anyone who is truly sealed by His Spirit will not want to come against Him, but draw even closer to Him.

Many claim the name of Jesus through lip service only and have never truly been Spiritually born again and their names are not found written in the Lambs book of life for they add to and take away from the word of God, Rev 22:18, 19, even though they assume their names are there. Have they lost their salvation, no, because they never had Gods salvation to begin with. John 15; Matthew7:16, 20; Galatians 5:22; 2Peter 2:22 speaks of those who assume they are of Christ, but their branch did not remain in Christ as they bare no fruit. They remain in their own will and not Gods will. These are the ones who will not be able to endure unto the end and will not be saved and will hear Jesus say, "I never knew you", Matthew 7:21-23.

Those who are Spiritually born again, John 3:3-7, and have risen with Christ, Colossians 3:1-4, are those whose names are found written in the Lambs book of life. If we endure and overcome all persecution, even to the physical death of this flesh, for the sake of Christ we will live and have eternal life with the Father. We are not saved at the moment of confession of faith that is Christ Jesus, Romans 10:9,10, but only sealed by God who keeps us and will help us to endure all things of this world, John 14:26; John 6:26-29; 2Corinthians 1:21, 22.

Once saved always saved are only those who are in Christ and endure all persecutions, trials and tribulation as they stand strong in their faith, which is Christ Jesus, unto the end of days here on Earth as then they are saved from the lake of fire as their names are found written in the Lambs book of life which is eternal life with the Father. Let us be the Church of Philadelphia as the Church of Laodicea God will spew out of His mouth, Rev 3:7-22.

 

[gr8grace3]

Try and see it like this:

I am told to no longer wash my hands before eating a meal. There is no need to do that because I am cleansed. Yet I know my hands are dirty by sin. It sounds as if someone is afraid to be exposed, vulnerable, humbled, and seek to be cleansed of sin.

We name and site our sin to God to regain fellowship. Not to regain salvation or maintain something that is ETERNAL in nature.......our eternal life. And technically, it is our feet that need washing, we walk in this fallen world as redeemed new creatures in Christ, yet we still sin from the flesh.
New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."

I am saying what have you to lose by washing your hands before a meal.

If our motive is to keep or maintain His salvation of us......we have a lot to lose, because that would be from our flesh and not the Spirit.
New American Standard Bible
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

Yet you are saying I will surely die and go to hell if I cleaned my hands from any sin of the day. But I am not afraid to be exposed, vulnerable, humbled or seek to be cleansed of sin.

I am not saying that. I believe in eternal security for the believer.

I believe it is good that you are not afraid to be exposed. If we can't be honest with ourselves and see that we fail CONSTANTLY.....we are in big trouble.......but our salvation/eternal life is secure. John 10:28.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

I believe that genuine believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, the true church, and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and thus,are unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ, ever.

That which teaches otherwise is known to God. And shall answer when it is time.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

[Winter Tapioca]

There is no way not to turn this into OSAS vs OSNAS debate.

When we first accept Christ as our Lord and Savior through pure repentance we are only at that time delivered from our past sins as we begin our personal relationship with Jesus and true faith that is Christ will lead us into Gods righteousness as we have been Spiritually renewed, John 3:3-7, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

The only thing that can separate us from the love of God is blasphemy against His Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:31, which means coming against God and anyone who is truly sealed by His Spirit will not want to come against Him, but draw even closer to Him.

Many claim the name of Jesus through lip service only and have never truly been Spiritually born again and their names are not found written in the Lambs book of life for they add to and take away from the word of God, Rev 22:18, 19, even though they assume their names are there. Have they lost their salvation, no, because they never had Gods salvation to begin with. John 15; Matthew7:16, 20; Galatians 5:22; 2Peter 2:22 speaks of those who assume they are of Christ, but their branch did not remain in Christ as they bare no fruit. They remain in their own will and not Gods will. These are the ones who will not be able to endure unto the end and will not be saved and will hear Jesus say, "I never knew you", Matthew 7:21-23.

Those who are Spiritually born again, John 3:3-7, and have risen with Christ, Colossians 3:1-4, are those whose names are found written in the Lambs book of life. If we endure and overcome all persecution, even to the physical death of this flesh, for the sake of Christ we will live and have eternal life with the Father. We are not saved at the moment of confession of faith that is Christ Jesus, Romans 10:9,10, but only sealed by God who keeps us and will help us to endure all things of this world, John 14:26; John 6:26-29; 2Corinthians 1:21, 22.

Once saved always saved are only those who are in Christ and endure all persecutions, trials and tribulation as they stand strong in their faith, which is Christ Jesus, unto the end of days here on Earth as then they are saved from the lake of fire as their names are found written in the Lambs book of life which is eternal life with the Father. Let us be the Church of Philadelphia as the Church of Laodicea God will spew out of His mouth, Rev 3:7-22.

You are absolutely right. There is no debate. God's words are eternally succinct. And Jesus died to seal them for all time.
Eternal salvation, eternal life, is the only truth that Jesus died to deliver as the fact of life and eternity for those who are his own. While those who are not are encompassed by their awareness of OSNAS. I see that as God's manner of getting the message across that while they still have life, they still have time to renounce falsity. For when they think they can do something to overcome God's grace that brings them to the faith of Christ , they will have time to actually embrace the Good News Jesus died to deliver.

I find it an abomination that what Jesus said can be openly denied so as to in effect call him liar.

No one can take us from Jesus hand. No one comes to the Father but through Jesus. And Jesus will never cast us out. What hubris it is to imagine then that the source of all existence saying that failed to realize we mere mortals in flesh can choose to jump! We can arrive at the antithesis of the good news. We can become unsaved, unbaptized, unredeemed, unclean, because an all knowing God didn't see that coming. That we can lose faith in God and by that act God will lose faith in us.And revoke every promise he ever made when he allowed the begotten Sonship to die on the last sin altar ever erected on this earth so as to deliver to us eternal, revocable salvation.

Matthew 15:8 These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

I believe that genuine believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, the true church, and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and thus, unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ.

Because Jesus said it. Died to deliver the seal on the truth of it. And that is all there is to it. Anything less , any teaching that goes against what Jesus died to commit as a new covenant with God's people, is argument as to why that professor deserves not to be in covenant with Christ.
And that's sad. It is not the truth of God in Christ.

 

[WIP]

I would as a new arrival here presume those who are founders of Christian Forums.Net are able to defend the Statement of Faith they published here. And from whence that excerpt was gleaned.
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?pages/statement-of-faith/
"We believe that genuine believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, the true church, and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and thus, unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ."

Yes, I believe there is nothing that can separate us from the love of Christ just as Scripture says but I still have to ask, where in Scripture does it say that the love of Jesus Christ is synonymous with eternal salvation? As I've already posted, God loves all. In fact, He does so much that while we were still sinners, He died for us. We also know that not all will enter into heaven for He said, “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV
Note the parts I emphasized.

 

[WIP]

For one thing, Romans 8:38-39 is found at the end of one of the key "predestination" chapters. I'm not gong to start down that path, but it makes sense that the "predestined elect" could not be separated from God's love since they are, duh, the predestined elect.

The standard OSNAS response is that Romans 8:38-39 does not state that a believer, as an act of his own free will (i.e., apostasy) cannot separate himself. And, as you point out, God's love is broader than salvation.

As always, this thread has become My Bible Verses vs. Your Bible Verses, also known as The Proof-Texting Game. My Bible Verses clearly support what I want to believe, whereas Your Bible Verses don't really mean what they seem to say. List all of the relevant Bible verses, in context, and the message is pretty clear that continuing in belief is a requirement for salvation, which is what was understood by the entire Christian community for the first 400 years after the Resurrection - not that you "lose" your salvation if you don't continue in belief, but that you never had it if you do not complete the act of believing by continuing to believe. The OSAS position is somewhat like saying you "ran" a 10K when you took the first step.

That's the whole point of bringing up other verses that don't support what others have claimed. We need to fit (understand) the whole of Scripture together and not just bits and pieces in order to truly know God and this is why I am asking these questions. I don't claim either position in this debate although I must admit that I do lean toward OSNAS to some degree.

 

[gr8grace3]

I believe that genuine believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, the true church, and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and thus,are unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ, ever.

That which teaches otherwise is known to God. And shall answer when it is time.

Romans 16:18
King James Bible
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

It is interesting that the Word is full of warning verses of false prophets/false teachers that teach "good" and "nice" things. And the world has us convinced that the false teachers are people who walk into church with a doobie in his mouth ,a bottle of jack in each hand, a lady of the night under each arm and shouts out.......",Sin all you want, sit on your butt and coast into heaven."

The false prophets look good, have their act cleaned up and refined, get people to work, are smooth talkers, 'Jesus' is often used in their speech.........and can fool even the most discerning believer.

 

[WIP]

I can, but can you accept that it is???

Romans 8:35 (LEB) Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will affliction or distress or persecution or hunger or lack of sufficient clothing or danger or the sword?​

All that is necessary to show that the phrase "love of Christ" is phrase referring to "us" as those who are saved (versus 'all people') is to determine who the 'us" and "we" is within the verse's context (not from our presuppositions of what Paul meant):

37 No, but in all these things we prevail completely through the one who loved us.​

Do you think 'all people' "prevail" or only the saved??? (obviously not all people prevail)

34 Who is the one who condemns? Christ...​

There are some people that are saved and there are some people that are condemned. The phrase is obviously not about universal love for mankind.

Romans 8 No Condemnation in Christ

Romans 8:32-33 (LEB)
32 Indeed, he who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all, how will he not also, together with him, freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring charges against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies.​

The "us"/"we" is about God's elect, obviously. And oh, BTW "us all", not most of God's elect.

The CFNet SoF had this Romans 8 passage above (which is about "God's Elect") and Ephesians 1 in view. It's a copy of the Calvary Chapel SoF which references these passages as it's basis (Scriptural justification) for this statement:

Eph 1:11 in whom also we were chosen (elected as in Rom 8:33), having been predestined according to the purpose of the One who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 that we who hoped beforehand in Christ should be for the praise of his glory, 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.
​

This portion of the CFNet SoF is most obviously about salvation.

Thank you, chessman. I will give this some study.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Romans 16:18
King James Bible
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

It is interesting that the Word is full of warning verses of false prophets/false teachers that teach "good" and "nice" things. And the world has us convinced that the false teachers are people who walk into church with a doobie in his mouth ,a bottle of jack in each hand, a lady of the night under each arm and shouts out.......",Sin all you want, sit on your butt and coast into heaven."

The false prophets look good, have their act cleaned up and refined, get people to work, are smooth talkers, 'Jesus' is often used in their speech.........and can fool even the most discerning believer.

They try. But when the Bible said it those false teachers that smoothly articulate what is a slogan, "Jesus died for a lie", are quickly found out.
They argue that eternal life really isn't eternal as Jesus said. They argue that when Jesus said no one will take the believer from his hand that Jesus was jusssst kidding.

It makes the Christian such as myself wonder, and I know I can't be alone in this, why? Why would anyone want to insist their soul is not going to enjoy the peace that passes understanding after they die and go to be with God the Father for eternity? Why would someone hope to argue, and argue, and argue, the antithesis of Jesus' good news? A new covenant that He gave his life for. So that all who believe in him shall never perish, but have eternal life. Those that would rather insist, believers will perish, and they will lose eternal life, by their own will that is stronger than the word of God himself. Who tells the reader of his word, he knew his own before the world came to be. When he knew his own before the world was created, and he tells his own that he knew us before the womb, and Jesus taught, no one comes to Him but the Father calls them, what then is the point of that false babbler? Who insists in promoting the exact opposite teaching of Jesus. The anti-doctrine of Christ! Who's belief system honors the flesh, the will, and who's ego insists we can do exactly the opposite of what Jesus said was done for the sake of we who believe.

I think it is because such teachers don't want to be alone in Hell.So they glorify themselves thinking they can at least enjoy their time there if they lead one saint in that direction.






They argue, they argue, they argue. While those who are in Christ eternally, knowing even if they fall from the path they are still in God's grace because arriving there repentant they are still known by the Father. And are eternally secure in his grace, love, and under Jesus blood. And that really upsets those who aren't.

 

[chessman]

I stated, supported with Scripture, context and other evidence the following view:
"This portion of the CFNet SoF is most obviously about salvation."

You replied:

Not even close.

And your 'support' for your contrary view is the following:

1. Your opinion that "God is love. God loves unbelievers." based on snipping a fraction of John 3:16 and a word from Romans 8:39 (which you think refers to Hell). Neither of which says, means or even implies in the slightest that "God loves unbelievers" in a salvific way. Even if it did, it doesn't mean the SoF isn't about the salvation of 'genuine believers'.

John 3:16 is a teaching which shows us two ways in which God loved the world (contrasting the fate of believers from that of unbelievers):
A. The person who believes in him is not judged, thus "will not perish" due to eternal life being given to them.
vs
B. The person who does not believe, who has already been judged (thus will perish), because he "has not believed" in the name of the one and only Son of God.
You can't just snip a phrase out of a verse and run with it to support your 'case'. The very verse you referenced is a contrast of believers versus unbelievers (not a universalism verse). And yes, it's about salvation, too. Which was my point about the SoF article.

2.

God loves even those He must send to hell, for even in the depths of hell people are not separated from the love of God.

38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:38-39

Again, the "us" in this passage are God's elect, whom He (not us) justifies. Not the condemned or the non-elect.

Romans 8:33-35 (LEB) 33 Who will bring charges against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies. 34 Who is the one who condemns? Christ is the one who died, and more than that, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will affliction or distress or persecution or hunger or lack of sufficient clothing or danger or the sword?​

As for God's 'love' for those condemned to perish:

Deuteronomy 32:22-24 (LEB)
22 For a fire was kindle by my anger,
and it burned up to the depths of Sheol,
and it devoured the earth and its produce,
and it set afire the foundation of the mountains.
23 I will heap disasters upon them;
my arrows I will spend on them.
24 They will become weakened by famine,
and consumed by plague and bitter pestilence;
and the teeth of wild animals I will send against them,
with the poison of the creeping things in the dust;​

Sound 'loving' to you?

 

[for_his_glory]

Please check the context. It's about enduring the Great Tribulation, a 7 year period of time.

Again, the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:4-13 as the scriptures I gave are not taken out of context. All these things Jesus said is happening even now as they have in the past and will continue to wax worse until Jesus returns and makes an end to all abominations. Many will not endure and even blasphemy the Holy Spirit as they speak from the abundance of their hearts as they will have lost all faith and trust in God.

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Yes, I believe there is nothing that can separate us from the love of Christ just as Scripture says but I still have to ask, where in Scripture does it say that the love of Jesus Christ is synonymous with eternal salvation?

You mean that Jesus died to deliver us the covenant that insures eternal salvation isn't love?

 

[for_his_glory]

It's not what I say or have said. It's directly about what Jesus said in John 10:28.

He said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. One either believes what He said, or they don't. But that's exactly what He said.

The only requirement for not perishing is to receive eternal life from Jesus.

What happens after believing and receiving eternal life becomes a "family matter", and Heb 12:5-11 applies.
5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says, “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”
7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father?
8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.
9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!
10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.
11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

Ty, that did answer my question

 

[Winter Tapioca]

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.”

John 14:8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves."


Ephesians 5:1-2
Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.


John 3:16-17
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him."

Romans 5:8
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Colossians 1:1-29
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the saints and faithful brothers in Christ at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father. We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love that you have for all the saints, because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel...

1 John 3:1
See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

 

[gr8grace3]

Yes, I believe there is nothing that can separate us from the love of Christ just as Scripture says but I still have to ask, where in Scripture does it say that the love of Jesus Christ is synonymous with eternal salvation? As I've already posted, God loves all. In fact, He does so much that while we were still sinners, He died for us. We also know that not all will enter into heaven for He said, “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV
Note the parts I emphasized.

New American Standard Bible
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 15:9 (NASB95)
9 “Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.

If believers could be separated from this love, we would have to conclude that The Lord Jesus Christ could also be separated from this love.

It is narrow because it is faith alone in Christ alone. If we add even a weee bit of our own work into that faith it is not efficacious for our salvation.

Thank God we are saved the moment we believe, Acts 16:31. Because pretty much all of us fall away from this amazing grace at some point in our lives, And many never come back to this truth........but are still saved.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

New American Standard Bible
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 15:9 (NASB95)
9 “Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.

If believers could be separated from this love, we would have to conclude that The Lord Jesus Christ could also be separated from this love.

It is narrow because it is faith alone in Christ alone. If we add even a weee bit of our own work into that faith it is not efficacious for our salvation.

Thank God we are saved the moment we believe, Acts 16:31. Because pretty much all of us fall away from this amazing grace at some point in our lives, And many never come back to this truth........but are still saved.

I bolded and colored in blue the part that is concerning. Especially given what you've concluded in your remarks after. It isn't a matter of arriving at our personal conclusion. "we would have to conclude that The Lord Jesus Christ could also be separated from this love."
When speaking of Jesus Christ it is a matter of proof. Where is the scripture that says that?
Because what you say here actually revokes that conclusion you personally arrived at without thus far scripture to support it. "If we add even a weee bit of our own work into that faith it is not efficacious for our salvation."
That's exactly what you've done in printing your conclusion.
Show proof or retract the conclusion that is not substantiated by the word.

 

[gr8grace3]

I bolded and colored in blue the part that is concerning. Especially given what you've concluded in your remarks after. It isn't a matter of arriving at our personal conclusion. "we would have to conclude that The Lord Jesus Christ could also be separated from this love."
When speaking of Jesus Christ it is a matter of proof. Where is the scripture that says that?
Because what you say here actually revokes that conclusion you personally arrived at without thus far scripture to support it. "If we add even a weee bit of our own work into that faith it is not efficacious for our salvation."
That's exactly what you've done in printing your conclusion.
Show proof or retract the conclusion that is not substantiated by the word.

You are not understanding. The Lord Jesus Christ has the same love for believers as the Father has for Him.

It is CLEARLY OBVIOUS that the Lord Jesus Christ can't be separated from this love. And this love is the same for believers so the conclusion is it is CLEARLY OBVIOUS that believers can't be separated from this love.

If people want to conclude that believers can be separated from this love, they logically would have to conclude that the Lord Jesus Christ could be separated from this love............which we all know is NOT true.

 

[for_his_glory]

They argue, they argue, they argue. While those who are in Christ eternally, knowing even if they fall from the path they are still in God's grace because arriving there repentant they are still known by the Father. And are eternally secure in his grace, love, and under Jesus blood. And that really upsets those who aren't.

So, if I fall from the narrow path that leads to life and walk out of its gate forever and enter the wide gate which path leads to destruction I am still given eternal life because of Gods grace? That is what you are saying.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

God Is Love
"God’s Love Is Sacrificial

Not only does God’s love motivate Him to give, but it motivates Him to give when it costs Him dearly. That too is different from our love. We hesitate to do anything for others that will cost us too much or inconvenience us too greatly. But God’s love cost Him the very best that He had—His only Son. That is the message of the greatest love text in the Bible: “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life” (John 3:16). God’s giving His Son involved more than merely allowing Him to leave Heaven’s glory and enter earth’s history. It meant allowing Him to die in our place and pay the awful debt of our sins. God proved His love conclusively and irrefutably by sending His Son to the cross as an atoning sacrifice for our sins (Romans 5:8; 1 John 4:9-10). That is sacrificial love.

It was no less of a sacrifice for God the Son than it was for God the Father. His willingness to offer Himself was the summit of sacrificial love. Paul called Him “the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me” (Galatians 2:20). When the same apostle outlined God’s principles for harmonious marital relationships, he said, “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her” (Ephesians 5:25). Jesus Christ made the supreme sacrifice for us when He died in our place. He was falsely accused, beaten, spit on, crowned with thorns, nailed to a cross, and left to die the most excruciating death known to man. The infinite curse of sin’s penalty, the Father’s just punishment for the whole world’s guilt, was laid on Him as He hung on that cross. He possessed the power to walk away from it unscathed, yet He voluntarily stayed there and bore that suffering for us. There simply is no greater love (John 15:13)."


1 John 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

You are not understanding. The Lord Jesus Christ has the same love for believers as the Father has for Him.

It is CLEARLY OBVIOUS that the Lord Jesus Christ can't be separated from this love. And this love is the same for believers so the conclusion is it is CLEARLY OBVIOUS that believers can't be separated from this love.

If people want to conclude that believers can be separated from this love, they logically would have to conclude that the Lord Jesus Christ could be separated from this love............which we all know is NOT true.

Thank you for explaining in a more concise manner. I agree.