When does a believer receive eternal life?

[Winter Tapioca]

WOW!!! You choose mans teachings over that of what Jesus has already said.

That misrepresents the truth of my remarks.

BTW, no one is arguing that God gives eternal life to those who believe and confess Christ as Lord and Savior. I refuse to get into the OSAS vs. OSNAS, but to only give the whole of scripture and not what man interprets it to be because they claim to be a scholar.

My dear woman no scholar need utter a peep when God himself sent his only begotten Son Emmanuel to deliver eternal salvation to the world through God's grace.
Many people who choose to enter into these type discussions utilize scholarship to further their point when they encounter those for whom holy scripture has no meaning in that regard. As is the case for that argument that claims eternal salvation is not true. That argument that proposes that is blaspheming the holy spirit of God who repeatedly taught that eternal life, eternal salvation, is a fact. And his son died to seal the covenant with his blood, the blood of the lamb, to assure the covenant for all time.

And in fact those members of the body of Christ that defend eternal salvation through Jesus are actually also upholding and defending the statement of faith this community is grounded in.
We believe that genuine believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, the true church, and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and thus, unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ.
We believe that all believers need to be filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord.

Because we know the truth! And the truth has set us free. Praise Jesus!

 

[for_his_glory]

That's "works salvation" as promoted by those in the Eastern Orthodox tradition. That is not the eternal message of Emmanuel.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.




John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

where did I say it was "works salvation"? Most everyone knows it's by Gods grace through faith that is Jesus Christ that we are saved. It's through the unconditional love of God that all can come to His grace

 

[JLB]

Jesus didn't die to deliver conditional salvation to the world. It is false to argue he did.

The condition for salvation is believe.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

It is false to claim Jesus did put the condition of believe on salvation.

Otherwise universal reconciliation is the Koolaide we need to all drink.

 

[for_his_glory]

That misrepresents the truth of my remarks.

My dear woman no scholar need utter a peep when God himself sent his only begotten Son Emmanuel to deliver eternal salvation to the world through God's grace.
Many people who choose to enter into these type discussions utilize scholarship to further their point when they encounter those for whom holy scripture has no meaning in that regard. As is the case for that argument that claims eternal salvation is not true. That argument that proposes that is blaspheming the holy spirit of God who repeatedly taught that eternal life, eternal salvation, is a fact. And his son died to seal the covenant with his blood, the blood of the lamb, to assure the covenant for all time.

And in fact those members of the body of Christ that defend eternal salvation through Jesus are actually also upholding and defending the statement of faith this community is grounded in.
We believe that genuine believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, the true church, and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and thus, unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ.
We believe that all believers need to be filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord.

Because we know the truth! And the truth has set us free. Praise Jesus!

In post #127 all I posted was scripture alone and you still come back to refute what Jesus already said.
Can you please explain what the falling away is in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-5 and they shall deceive the very elect of God if possible in Matthew 24:23-25.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

In post #127 all I posted was scripture alone and you still come back to refute what Jesus already said.
Can you please explain what the falling away is in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-5 and they shall deceive the very elect of God if possible in Matthew 24:23-25.

There's a rule about misrepresenting a persons post. I suggest you stop.

 

[JLB]

And egoism and pride are the doctrine of Hell that teaches we can lose our salvation and we can banish the sealing of the Holy Spirit if we make one false step in our walk with our Lord.

Lucifer, light bringer, shines in such teachings as that. Not Jesus Christ.

Please stop misrepresenting what I posted.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

How can a person possibly claim that those who do not believe any longer, still have the seal of approval as those who believe.

Those who depart from Christ because the no longer believe have return to unbelieving.

Those who believe for a while then no longer believe, are no longer believers as the have returned to unbelieving.

The unbelieving are promised the second death along with liars.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:8


JLB

 

[JLB]

Question JLB. Do you accept that believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God? That they are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, and are eternally sealed by the Holy Spirit, and are unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ?

People who are born again by the Spirit because they have believed have the power to become sons of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12


God still loves those in the depths of hell.

For God so loves the world...


JLB

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Please stop misrepresenting what I posted.

I did no such thing. Thinking we can overcome God's will is hubris, egoism and pride. Teaching, hoping to convince the people who are in the Holiness doctrine of God almighty that they can lose by their own will what God and the covenant His only begotten Son Jesus delivered with the sacrificial blood of that perfect lamb, is falsehood!
It is the doctrine promoted by the Eastern Orthodox church.

Plenty of scripture testify that once we are saved we are always saved. Jesus own words sustained his sacrifice to that end.
Being we are to support our argument with scripture I decided that an outside source that also identified formerly in this discussion that it is the Eastern Orthodox tradition wherein the teaching of justification by faith hardly appears. While the EO doctrinal teachings deliver the false message that we can lose our salvation,. The truth of the matter as evidenced by God's own eternal words is, we cannot!


Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?"

Answer: First, the term Christian must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer or walked down an aisle or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what makes a Christian. A Christian is a person who has fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior and therefore possesses the Holy Spirit (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8–9).


So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation? It’s a crucially important question. Perhaps the best way to answer it is to examine what the Bible says occurs at salvation and to study what losing salvation would entail:

A Christian is a new creation. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17). A Christian is not simply an “improved” version of a person; a Christian is an entirely new creature. He is “in Christ.” For a Christian to lose salvation, the new creation would have to be destroyed.

A Christian is redeemed. “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:18–19). The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. We were purchased at the cost of Christ’s death. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase of the individual for whom He paid with the precious blood of Christ.

A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To justify is to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared. Those absolved of guilt would have to be tried again and found guilty. God would have to reverse the sentence handed down from the divine bench.

A Christian is promised eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Eternal life is the promise of spending forever in heaven with God. God promises, “Believe and you will have eternal life.” For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be redefined. The Christian is promised to live forever. Does eternal not mean “eternal”?

A Christian is marked by God and sealed by the Spirit. “You also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13–14). At the moment of faith, the new Christian is marked and sealed with the Spirit, who was promised to act as a deposit to guarantee the heavenly inheritance. The end result is that God’s glory is praised. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to erase the mark, withdraw the Spirit, cancel the deposit, break His promise, revoke the guarantee, keep the inheritance, forego the praise, and lessen His glory.

A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). According to Romans 5:1, justification is ours at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification comes with justification. All those whom God justifies are promised to be glorified. This promise will be fulfilled when Christians receive their perfect resurrection bodies in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.

A Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Christ would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation is the gift of God, and God’s gifts are “irrevocable” (Romans 11:29). A Christian cannot be un-newly created. The redeemed cannot be unpurchased. Eternal life cannot be temporary. God cannot renege on His Word. Scripture says that God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).

Two common objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation concern these experiential issues: 1) What about Christians who live in a sinful, unrepentant lifestyle? 2) What about Christians who reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these objections is the assumption that everyone who calls himself a “Christian” has actually been born again. The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a state of continual, unrepentant sin (1 John 3:6). The Bible also says that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he was never truly a Christian (1 John 2:19). He may have been religious, he may have put on a good show, but he was never born again by the power of God. “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:16). The redeemed of God belong “to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God” (Romans 7:4).

Nothing can separate a child of God from the Father’s love (Romans 8:38–39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28–29). God guarantees eternal life and maintains the salvation He has given us. The Good Shepherd searches for the lost sheep, and, “when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home” (Luke 15:5–6). The lamb is found, and the Shepherd gladly bears the burden; our Lord takes full responsibility for bringing the lost one safely home.

Jude 24–25 further emphasizes the goodness and faithfulness of our Savior: “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”

 

[Winter Tapioca]

People who are born again by the Spirit because they have believed have the power to become sons of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12


God still loves those in the depths of hell.

For God so loves the world...


JLB

If I am reading that assertion correctly, you then disagree with this? "believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God? That they are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, and are eternally sealed by the Holy Spirit, and are unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ?"

 

[ezra]

Tell me if this is correct...

I was saved, I am being saved, I will be saved...

i have a know so salvation kept by the power of GOD

 

[for_his_glory]

There's a rule about misrepresenting a persons post. I suggest you stop.

What did I misrepresent!!! All I said was that I gave scripture without comment in post #127, but you came back to defend what biblehub has to say over that which Jesus already said in your post #140

 

[Winter Tapioca]

i have a know so salvation kept by the power of GOD

What?

 

[chessman]

Sadly, the doctrine of justification by faith is virtually absent from the history and theology of the Orthodox Church

I learned recently that the term "evangelical" started out as a pejorative term coined by Rome meant to apply to and insult the reformers. Rome (at the time anyway) thought it so silly that believing in Christ alone (the Gospel) could save anyone, that they started calling people like Luther 'evangelicals' meaning people that thought the Gospel alone could save. Without a 'father' to issue sacraments or priests to confess sins to, Rome thought it silly anyone could actually be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:21 He made the one who did not know sin to be sin on our behalf, in order that we could become the righteousness of God in him.​

Except of course those that are righteous enough in themselves.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But from him you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, just as it is written, “The one who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.” ​

Oh my, ... (nevermind)

 

[Winter Tapioca]

I learned recently that the term "evangelical" started out as a pejorative term coined by Rome meant to apply to and insult the reformers. Rome (at the time anyway) thought it so silly that believing in Christ alone (the Gospel) could save anyone, that they started calling people like Luther 'evangelicals' meaning people that thought the Gospel alone could save. Without a 'father' to issue sacraments or priests to confess sins to, Rome thought it silly anyone could actually be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:21 He made the one who did not know sin to be sin on our behalf, in order that we could become the righteousness of God in him.​

Except of course those that are righteous enough in themselves.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But from him you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, just as it is written, “The one who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.” ​

Oh my, ... (nevermind)

I'm not familiar with your first observation concerning the origin of "Evangelical". I have not researched that but shall take your learned observation as truth. Are you familiar with the council of Trent and their list of anathemas?

 

[Edward]

I said this:
"Salvation involves 3 tenses, past, present, and future.

Past tense Salvation: I have been saved from the penalty of sin. Justification
Present tense Salvation: I am being saved from the power of sin. Sanctification
Future tense Salvation: I will be saved from the presence of sin. Glorification"

Actually, what I said above has NO relevance to the OP. Different subjects. Our salvation involves justification, sanctification and glorification, none of which relate to WHEN one receives the gift of eternal life.

And none of these tenses even speaks to WHEN one receives the gift of eternal life.

From John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, eternal life is a present possession WHEN one believes.

There are no verses that teach that eternal life are given at any specific point AFTER one initially believes. So we know it's WHEN one believes.

Oh you know what? I think we're talking semantics here. What you wrote above is exactly correct and what I meant. Let's see...

1. when they first believe
2. some time during their life on earth
3. at the end of their life, when they enter eternity

Ok, I was saved when I first believed. (justification)
I AM being saved right now. (Sanctification)
I will be saved at the end of my earthly life (glorification)

How is that different Brother?

 

[ezra]

It is the doctrine promoted by the Eastern Orthodox church.

so your eastern orthodox?

 

[Edward]

i have a know so salvation kept by the power of GOD

So do I. It sounds as if you walk in it Brother, and these (us) people do know so.

 

[FreeGrace]

Matthew 10:22; 24:13; Rev 2:10 all say that to those who endure unto the end are those who will be saved.

Please check the context. It's about enduring the Great Tribulation, a 7 year period of time.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

so your eastern orthodox?

No.

 

[FreeGrace]

So if I am understanding what you are saying that once I receive eternal life, but yet if I lose all faith in Christ and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit I still have eternal life with the Father because its a guarantee from God? This is what I am hearing you say!!!

It's not what I say or have said. It's directly about what Jesus said in John 10:28.

He said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. One either believes what He said, or they don't. But that's exactly what He said.

The only requirement for not perishing is to receive eternal life from Jesus.

What happens after believing and receiving eternal life becomes a "family matter", and Heb 12:5-11 applies.
5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says, “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”
7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father?
8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.
9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!
10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.
11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.