When does a believer receive eternal life?

[FreeGrace]

John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

Salvation may be secure, but how much of the soul is saved depends on how much we follow Christ's (way, truth and life).

It would be helpful to follow the ToS and provide Scripture that teaches this "partial salvation" of the soul. Otherwise, this idea can only be treated as another opinion.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved, even though only as one escaping through the flames.

The word Day is Judgement Day.

v.15 speaks of one's works or deeds being burned up and reward lost, but the "builder" will "yet be saved".

 

[for_his_glory]

I posted this:
"Answered in my previous post. But I'm happy to answer it again, as it needs to be repeated.

Eternal life is possessed WHEN one believes. John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13"

It's really sad when a professing Christian believes that what Jesus and the apostle John said is "just opinion".


So then, this is another example of pitting Scripture against itself, since John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13 all say that one possesses eternal life by believing in Christ.

The verse quoted here but not cited refers to perfection for receiving eternal life. Those who "by patient continuance in doing good" don't need the blood of Jesus nor God's grace. They have earned eternal life.

The only problem is that there is "none good, no not one". Rom 3:10 - As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;"
Or, Rom 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So there is no need to continue the fallacy that any human being receives eternal life per Rom 2:6-8.


Those who think they are judged "according to our deeds" for whether or not they will be saved have been totally deceived by the devil.

For believers, the Judgment Seat of Christ will determine eternal rewards, or not.
For unbelievers, theGreat White Throne Judgment will determine how "bearable" it will be for them "on that day", per the opinion of Jesus. ;)
Matt 10:15 - Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
Matt 11:22 - But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.
Matt 11:24 - But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”


In that same chapter, Jesus taught that whoever believes possesses etenal life. Nothing about patient continuance in doing good.

But again, that was just His opinion.

Again, no one is refuting your few main scriptures, John 3:15, 16; 5:24; 6:47; and 1 John 5:13 that you keep using, but it's when one neglects the rest of what Jesus said that one who is yet very young in the word of God could be lead to believe even though we believe in Jesus we can also live like a heathen because we already posses eternal life when we believed in Jesus.https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/1 John 5.13

 

[FreeGrace]

Hermit said: ↑
John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

Salvation may be secure, but how much of the soul is saved depends on how much we follow Christ's (way, truth and life).

So you can have only a tiny piece of your soul saved if you follow Christ only a little bit? And all of your soul saved if you follow him all the way?

That was my take as well.

 

[FreeGrace]

It's sad when one chooses to post and only believe those scriptures that speak about eternal life, but ignore the full gospel scriptures that not only teach eternal life, but also teaches how one can lose their salvation and say those scriptures do not exist even though they are presented before them.

So, previously there was no interest on your part to get into an OSAS vs OSNAS debate, but in this post make the claim that the "full gospel scriptures' teaches how one can lose their salvation". Amazing.

Consider this: IF Scripture does teach both eternal security and how to lose salvation, then Scripture is contradicted and cannot be trusted AT ALL.

And Jesus was as clear as possible when He said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

There is NO WAY anyone who has received eternal life can perish. Period. Jesus said so.

For those who still don't understand, "shall never" means exactly that; ain't gonna happen.

 

[FreeGrace]

Again, no one is refuting your few main scriptures, John 3:15, 16; 5:24; 6:47; and 1 John 5:13 that you keep using, but it's when one neglects the rest of what Jesus said that one who is yet very young in the word of God could be lead to believe even though we believe in Jesus we can also live like a heathen because we already posses eternal life when we believed in Jesus.

OK, finally the "agenda" comes out into the light. The bane of everyone who just can't stand the idea that a saved person is somehow gonna get away with sin, or "live like a heathen".

Such people really do not understand grace at all. Even the most faithful and obedient Christian is saved solely by the grace of God. Nothing by what they do. Eph 2:9 - not of works (what they do), lest any man should boast.

 

[chessman]

My answer you already know from my posts #204 , that is where you got John 10:27 from.

Yes, that's my point. Only within the OSAS view do 100% of Jesus' sheep follow Him in eternal life. Within my view, I get to believe what Jesus said is 100% true. No meditation required. Just believe what He said.

Salvation may be secure, but how much of the soul is saved depends on how much we follow Christ's (way, truth and life).

Luke 15:5-6 And when he has found it [1 out of 100 lost sheep], he places it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he returns to his home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost!’ ​

Within your meditation results, how much of this lost sheep did Jesus go find and place on His shoulders for return home, 1/2 of it or 100%?

 

[Hermit]

v.15 speaks of one's works or deeds being burned up and reward lost, but the "builder" will "yet be saved".

Yes, that is true, but to what degree. If there were no degree, then what is the point of 1 Corinthians 3:15.

Though my love for Christ urges me to follow Him step by step, for only He knows which each step is on firm ground.
My first post was a concern that certain Scriptures used and capitalized missed other important wording. From that I have been asked left right and centre to explain myself. I have done that, yet I am treated as if I am trying to convert others, but I am not. Each is responsible for their own thoughts and actions. All I done was point at an alternative. What you do is your responsibility and not mine.

Another friendly suggestion is that if one responds with any form of tension, it is out of fear. Fear is not in Christ.

 

[Hermit]

Yes, that's my point. Only within the OSAS view do 100% of Jesus' sheep follow Him in eternal life. Within my view, I get to believe what Jesus said is 100% true. No meditation required. Just believe what He said.

Luke 15:5-6 And when he has found it [1 out of 100 lost sheep], he places it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he returns to his home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost!’​

Within your meditation results, how much of this lost sheep did Jesus go find and place on His shoulders for return home, 1/2 of it or 100%?

Anything less than 100% raises fear and tension in a person. This is because we love Christ so much we want to give all to Him, though we know we are not perfect. Out of our love for Christ we try to do our best to follow all His steps along the trail of life on earth. If we can do that 100%, then we would be a fearless, doubtless, reliable, loving, humble and meek. Do our posts reflect this? No, it does not.

So brother, let us stop taking our focus off the trail by arguing 100% or not. It defeats the purpose of following and loving Christ in all our thoughts and actions.

 

[th1b.taylor]

So, previously there was no interest on your part to get into an OSAS vs OSNAS debate, but in this post make the claim that the "full gospel scriptures' teaches how one can lose their salvation". Amazing.

Consider this: IF Scripture does teach both eternal security and how to lose salvation, then Scripture is contradicted and cannot be trusted AT ALL.

And Jesus was as clear as possible when He said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

There is NO WAY anyone who has received eternal life can perish. Period. Jesus said so.

For those who still don't understand, "shall never" means exactly that; ain't gonna happen.

 

[chessman]

Anything less than 100% raises fear and tension in a person.

You do understand we are justified by believing in Christ's sacrifice, right? There is no such thing as being 90% saved based on our righteousness.

Acts 13:37-39 But he whom God raised up did not experience decay. “Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Romans 8:33-34 Who will bring charges against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies. Who is the one who condemns? Christ is the one who died, and more than that, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. ​

 

[for_his_glory]

I posted this:
"Winter Tapioca said: ↑
You're Debbie_55? from Grace Centered forums topic: Once saved always saved is wrong. I ask because that is where the post above is copied from and it was published 5 years ago.

Then how can what Jesus said in John 10:28 about recipients of eternal life be believed?

If OSAS is right, then what Jesus said is wrong. There is no middle ground here."

Why not?

When we first accept Christ as our Lord and Savior through pure repentance we are only at that time delivered from our past sins as we begin our personal relationship with Jesus and true faith that is Christ will lead us into Gods righteousness as we have been Spiritually renewed, John 3:3-7, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.[/QUOTE]
If we are "only at that time (initial faith in Christ) delivered from our past sins", then please explain these verses:
Heb 7:27 - Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
Heb 9:12 - He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
Heb 9:26 - Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:28 - so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Heb 10:2 - so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Heb 10:10 - And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:12 - But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
Heb 10:14 - For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

All of these verses clearly indicate that Christ's one time sacrifice was for all sins, not just past tense sins.


Please study the text on blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It was specifically referring to Pharisees who SAW the miracles of Jesus and ascribed them to the devil.[/QUOTE]

I agree that Jesus was sacrificed once for our sin and has forgiven all sin, but yet when we do sin, present and future, there is no more sacrifice for those sins, but judgement, 2 Corinthians 5:1-11, and this is why we confess our sins present and future , Hebrews 10:26,27.
When we were brought unto Gods salvation by that of His grace through faith we were cleansed by the blood of Christ and made righteous by Gods righteousness alone and given the promise of eternal life. As long as we walk in His Spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, Galatians 5:16, 17.

God gave a warning to the Church of Laodicea in Rev 3:14-21 that He would spew those out of His mouth because their works were lukewarm. God also told them what to do in order to be clothed in His glory so their names would not be blotted out of the book of life.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Matthew 12:31-33 needs no interpretation as Jesus already made it clear. BTW, the Holy Spirit was not given until Jesus ascended to Heaven and then the indwelling of the Holy Spirit came down, Acts 1:1-11; 2:1-4.

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. 33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

 

[Hermit]

You do understand we are justified by believing in Christ's sacrifice, right? There is no such thing as being 90% saved based on our righteousness.

Acts 13:37-39 But he whom God raised up did not experience decay. “Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Romans 8:33-34 Who will bring charges against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies. Who is the one who condemns? Christ is the one who died, and more than that, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. ​

I understand where you and the others are at, and that is fine with me. But I will always strive to be closer to Christ and God, to improve my following His footsteps. For me, personally, to abide to what you say tempts me to compromise my desire (love) to please Christ and God. My desire to please is not a selfish act but a selfless one.

The Holy Spirit fills my heart with love when I desire to please Christ or God. I listen to Christ's Spirit in me. Because it is a loving act, I do what I know is the true thing for the soul. Obedience is not a chore but a heavenly desire, it is an act of love for me. So please allow me to carry on the way that fills my heart.

 

[ezra]

Salvation may be secure, but how much of the soul is saved depends on how much we follow Christ's (way, truth and life).

mannnn conditions conditions conditions we are either saved or we are not.... the scripture you posted is about judgment of what type works we have done wood hay stubble things we have one of our own accord. might say of the flesh.. Gold silver precious stone things that GOD has us to do . if truth be known we all might ahve some works that will burn up in the fire. but we ourselves saved .

 

[Winter Tapioca]

What does Christ's Spirit of Truth tell you. Pray and meditate on it.
See my signature.

I think that is great advice for Hermit to undertake.
Perhaps when he's ready he will answer the question his own truth invited after he made his own proclamation in the post I asked about.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

I believe chessman proved that the "us" and "we" in Rom 8 specifically refers to believers. There is no reason to look for some specific verse in Scripture about the "love of Jesus" being synonymous with eternal salvation.

btw, the very phrase "eternal salvation" has meaning. It means salvation is eternal. So, when one is saved, they are eternally saved.

Not probationally saved, which is the Arminian view.

If someone can provide any verse that teaches that our salvation is probationary, please share.

But as it is, Jesus' promise in John 10:28 is clear enough: those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

He could not have made that statement IF salvation was probationary.

For my understanding and since you interjected the term that I'd thought of but had not yet voiced, is this a community dedicated to the Arminian doctrine? If you know.

 

[ezra]

It would be helpful to follow the ToS and provide Scripture that teaches this "partial salvation" of the soul. Otherwise, this idea can only be treated as another opinion.


v.15 speaks of one's works or deeds being burned up and reward lost, but the "builder" will "yet be saved".

there is no partial saved . the Blood covered my sins when i got saved . man made doctrine

 

[ezra]

I understand where you and the others are at, and that is fine with me. But I will always strive to be closer to Christ and God, to improve my following His footsteps. For me, personally, to abide to what you say tempts me to compromise my desire (love) to please Christ and God. My desire to please is not a selfish act but a selfless one.

The Holy Spirit fills my heart with love when I desire to please Christ or God. I listen to Christ's Spirit in me. Because it is a loving act, I do what I know is the true thing for the soul. Obedience is not a chore but a heavenly desire, it is an act of love for me. So please allow me to carry on the way that fills my heart.

i can agree with this..

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"1 Cor 3:15 speaks of one's works or deeds being burned up and reward lost, but the "builder" will "yet be saved"."

Yes, that is true, but to what degree.

I think "burned up" means 100% of works.

If there were no degree, then what is the point of 1 Corinthians 3:15.

The point is clear. Even though one's lifestyle results in total (100%) loss of eternal rewards, the "builder" will STILL be saved.

Another friendly suggestion is that if one responds with any form of tension, it is out of fear. Fear is not in Christ.

Seems you're rather obsessed with this so-called "tension". My posts have no tension, so I'm truly sorry that you're seeing things that aren't there. My posts contain conviction of truth. They include verses that support my views.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

there is no partial saved . the Blood covered my sins when i got saved . man made doctrine

Amen! What we who are in Christ and know there is no partial salvation are doing is upholding the truth Jesus died to deliver. And we should never faint from it when called.
Acts 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"It would be helpful to follow the ToS and provide Scripture that teaches this "partial salvation" of the soul. Otherwise, this idea can only be treated as another opinion.

v.15 speaks of one's works or deeds being burned up and reward lost, but the "builder" will "yet be saved"."

there is no partial saved.

I totally agree. We either are saved, or are not. And those that are saved have been given eternal life by Jesus, and He said they shall never perish.

the Blood covered my sins when i got saved.

Totally. All of them, past, present, and future.

man made doctrine

Sure is.