When does a believer receive eternal life?

[for_his_glory]

Those who are in Christ are never cast out. They can think themselves leaving their faith, but God the Father still knows their name. Man is not stronger in his will than is the Father in his own. When God knows his own and calls them to himself, no one can take us from his grace. Jesus said he will never cast us out. We can imagine we cast ourselves away, but God will never let us go.

Matthew 10:22; 24:13; Rev 2:10 all say that to those who endure unto the end are those who will be saved. The end of what you might ask, the end of all the trials and tribulations we face daily in this word of evil wickedness that surrounds us and will wax worse and worse until Jesus returns and calls His Bride to meet Him in the air, 1 Thessalonians 4. Those whose faith in Christ is weak as they never allow it to mature or build upon it will be more inclined to curse God (blasphemy the Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:31, 32) from their heart and completely turn away from Him denouncing God in their lives when not trusting God in all things when they face the trials and tribulations of this world and actually blame God for their torments.

Philippians Chapter Two gives us insight on how to endure by allowing ourselves to be humbled before the Father in all humility. Many come to the alter, but soon waver from it, but it is those who come to the alter of grace and are truly sealed by God who gives us His Spirit, 2Cor 1:22 and remain in the will of God through obedience to His word by applying it to their lives knowing that even when we face the evil of this world God is right there with us as we run the race that is set before us, Hebrews 12:1,2.

When we first accept Christ as our Lord and Savior through pure repentance we are only at that time delivered from our past sins as we begin our personal relationship with Jesus and true faith that is Christ will lead us into Gods righteousness as we have been Spiritually renewed, John 3:3-7, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Matthew 10:22; 24:13; Rev 2:10 all say that to those who endure unto the end are those who will be saved. The end of what you might ask, the end of all the trials and tribulations we face daily in this word of evil wickedness that surrounds us and will wax worse and worse until Jesus returns and calls His Bride to meet Him in the air, 1 Thessalonians 4. Those whose faith in Christ is weak as they never allow it to mature or build upon it will be more inclined to curse God (blasphemy the Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:31, 32) from their heart and completely turn away from Him denouncing God in their lives when not trusting God in all things when they face the trials and tribulations of this world and actually blame God for their torments.

Philippians Chapter Two gives us insight on how to endure by allowing ourselves to be humbled before the Father in all humility. Many come to the alter, but soon waver from it, but it is those who come to the alter of grace and are truly sealed by God who gives us His Spirit, 2Cor 1:22 and remain in the will of God through obedience to His word by applying it to their lives knowing that even when we face the evil of this world God is right there with us as we run the race that is set before us, Hebrews 12:1,2.

When we first accept Christ as our Lord and Savior through pure repentance we are only at that time delivered from our past sins as we begin our personal relationship with Jesus and true faith that is Christ will lead us into Gods righteousness as we have been Spiritually renewed, John 3:3-7, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

You're Debbie_55? from Grace Centered forums topic: Once saved always saved is wrong. I ask because that is where the post above is copied from and it was published 5 years ago.

 

[for_his_glory]

I agreed with all that was said up until the thing about "allowing the seal of the Holy Spirit to be broken". There are no such verses that teach that. In fact, Eph 1:13-14 is clear about the sealing with the Spirit being a GUARANTEE of our inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession. So, there it is. Clear as day.


The bottom line for me is what Jesus promised to those He gives eternal life; they shall never perish. John 10:28

Please note what is required of those He gives eternal life: nothing. The very fact that He gives eternal life to someone guarantees that they shall never perish.

I don't believe that Jesus was either kidding or lying. I trust completely in what He said.

Once given eternal life, always saved. Which obviously bothers a lot of people.

OGELAS is biblical doctrine. For some strange reason, I was not able to underline the "g" in "given".

So if I am understanding what you are saying that once I receive eternal life, but yet if I lose all faith in Christ and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit I still have eternal life with the Father because its a guarantee from God? This is what I am hearing you say!!!

 

[for_his_glory]

You're Debbie_55? from Grace Centered forums topic: Once saved always saved is wrong. I ask because that is where the post above is copied from and it was published 5 years ago.

Yes, that is me and I wrote this and still believe it.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

So if I am understanding what you are saying that once I receive eternal life, but yet if I lose all faith in Christ and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit I still have eternal life with the Father because its a guarantee from God? This is what I am hearing you say!!!

Maybe read the commentary Bible scholars have afforded Matthew 12:31 [URL='http://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/12-31.htm'] [/URL]

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Yes, that is me and I wrote this and still believe it.

Some would say that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which informed the teachings of Jesus would include the proclamation that Salvation in Him is not eternal.

Do you believe that those who are in Christ are unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ?

 

[for_his_glory]

Some would say that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which informed the teachings of Jesus would include the proclamation that Salvation in Him is not eternal.

Do you believe that those who are in Christ are unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ?

These are the words Jesus spoke as this alone should answer your question.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. 33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

These are the words Jesus spoke as this alone should answer your question.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. 33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Do you believe that those who are in Christ are unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ?

 

[WIP]

Question JLB. Do you accept that believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God? That they are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, and are eternally sealed by the Holy Spirit, and are unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ?

I see this referenced often with regard to eternal salvation arguments but have never found where Scripture equates the love of Christ solely with salvation. Can you provide the Scripture reference that clearly defines the love of Jesus Christ as equal with salvation? Does Jesus not love all?

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 NKJV
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16 NKJV

 

[for_his_glory]

Maybe read the commentary Bible scholars have afforded Matthew 12:31

I don't care much for biblehub as they give their own interpretation even by using one verse, but not the whole. I have a Bible and the Holy Spirit to teach me and that is all I need. I never ask anyone to believe what I write, but that they take the whole of scripture given and ask the Holy Spirit teach them apart from mans teachings.

 

[Hermit]

Do you believe everything that Jesus said in Scripture?
Do you believe that He ever contradicted Himself?


What would lead one to think that I was trying to get you to do that??

If you love Christ, you should believe everything He said in Scripture. And then face the fact that He NEVER contradicted Himself.

Fear has gripped you brother. You won't let go of your need to be approved by others.
Where has your love gone? It is working against you. You are still seeking it instead of giving it.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

I see this referenced often with regard to eternal salvation arguments but have never found where Scripture equates the love of Christ solely with salvation. Can you provide the Scripture reference that clearly defines the love of Jesus Christ as equal with salvation? Does Jesus not love all?

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 NKJV
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16 NKJV

I would as a new arrival here presume those who are founders of Christian Forums.Net are able to defend the Statement of Faith they published here. And from whence that excerpt was gleaned.
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?pages/statement-of-faith/
"We believe that genuine believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, the true church, and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and thus, unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ."

 

[for_his_glory]

Do you believe that those who are in Christ are unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ?

If they remain in the love of God through faith that is Jesus and trust in all of Gods promises are those who are the Bride of Christ and will have eternal life with the Father when Jesus returns and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from Heaven where God sits on His throne.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

I don't care much for biblehub as they give their own interpretation even by using one verse, but not the whole. I have a Bible and the Holy Spirit to teach me and that is all I need. I never ask anyone to believe what I write, but that they take the whole of scripture given and ask the Holy Spirit teach them apart from mans teachings.

Man's teachings is what lays claim that Jesus lied when imparting the doctrine of eternal salvation and eternal life in and through him.
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is that anti-doctrine that argues those in the grace of God can become unsaved. When they did nothing in order to achieve salvation they can overcome God's will and grace for them and do something to remove themselves from Jesus hand.
Bible hub enlists scholarship to defend in commentary the scriptures. That's far more credible than that which promotes anti-doctrine and that those in the holiness of Christ can lose what Christ died to give them eternally.
The arguments are weak and yet God see's it all. And in the end, God's word and truth is eternal. And those who blasphemed His Sonship by claiming He did not give eternal life and salvation to those whom he called shall answer eternally for their wrong.

 

[Douglas Summers]

My words and highlights in blue.
True belief is the way, the truth and life of Christ. Not just in head, but in all thought and action.

Lead by The Spirit. (Rom. 8:5-10) Agreed?

 

[Winter Tapioca]

If they remain in the love of God through faith that is Jesus and trust in all of Gods promises are those who are the Bride of Christ and will have eternal life with the Father when Jesus returns and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from Heaven where God sits on His throne.

That's "works salvation" as promoted by those in the Eastern Orthodox tradition. That is not the eternal message of Emmanuel.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.




John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

John 10 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
40 And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.
41 And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.
42 And many believed on him there.

 

[Runner]

I see this referenced often with regard to eternal salvation arguments but have never found where Scripture equates the love of Christ solely with salvation. Can you provide the Scripture reference that clearly defines the love of Jesus Christ as equal with salvation? Does Jesus not love all?

For one thing, Romans 8:38-39 is found at the end of one of the key "predestination" chapters. I'm not gong to start down that path, but it makes sense that the "predestined elect" could not be separated from God's love since they are, duh, the predestined elect.

The standard OSNAS response is that Romans 8:38-39 does not state that a believer, as an act of his own free will (i.e., apostasy) cannot separate himself. And, as you point out, God's love is broader than salvation.

As always, this thread has become My Bible Verses vs. Your Bible Verses, also known as The Proof-Texting Game. My Bible Verses clearly support what I want to believe, whereas Your Bible Verses don't really mean what they seem to say. List all of the relevant Bible verses, in context, and the message is pretty clear that continuing in belief is a requirement for salvation, which is what was understood by the entire Christian community for the first 400 years after the Resurrection - not that you "lose" your salvation if you don't continue in belief, but that you never had it if you do not complete the act of believing by continuing to believe. The OSAS position is somewhat like saying you "ran" a 10K when you took the first step.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

I think the whole salvation conflict that arises among communities of faithful on line is due to one key factor at least. There of course are more however, one key factor I see happening with regularity in any community wherein I've encountered this type discussion is, people are more than happy to defend the faith. They're just not all that familiar with what it means to be in the faith.

The scripture in John 10 clearly, well not so much so for those in conflict, tells us that the Father gives us to the Son. Salvation begins with God's grace. We are saved through God's grace. Not through any act of our own. Jesus stated, those whom GOD has GIVEN HIM.....
Not, those who find me in seeking me out.....
God calls whom He will to His Son. Romans 8:30.


“God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.”1 Corinthians 1:9

 

[for_his_glory]

Man's teachings is what lays claim that Jesus lied when imparting the doctrine of eternal salvation and eternal life in and through him.
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is that anti-doctrine that argues those in the grace of God can become unsaved. When they did nothing in order to achieve salvation they can overcome God's will and grace for them and do something to remove themselves from Jesus hand.
Bible hub enlists scholarship to defend in commentary the scriptures. That's far more credible than that which promotes anti-doctrine and that those in the holiness of Christ can lose what Christ died to give them eternally.
The arguments are weak and yet God see's it all. And in the end, God's word and truth is eternal. And those who blasphemed His Sonship by claiming He did not give eternal life and salvation to those whom he called shall answer eternally for their wrong.

WOW!!! You choose mans teachings over that of what Jesus has already said.

BTW, no one is arguing that God gives eternal life to those who believe and confess Christ as Lord and Savior. I refuse to get into the OSAS vs. OSNAS, but to only give the whole of scripture and not what man interprets it to be because they claim to be a scholar.