Bible Study When Does A Christian Become Immortality/Born Again?

[WalterandDebbie]

Thursday 7-6-23 5th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 17 5783, 16th. Summer Day

Hello, I have been thinking about the OP and the different posts, but have not received any revelation on what Jesus was talking about to Nicodemus. But I'm glad to have an understanding of these views on this thread and more on other site forums.

I was looking at: It is by scripture we as Christians are not Born Again until we are caught up to be with Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58

But here are some views from Bing:
In Christianity, being born again means having a spiritual renewal or change of heart by accepting Jesus as the Savior and Lord. It is not about physical birth or external requirements, but about receiving salvation and becoming part of God’s family1.

The phrase “born again” is frequently misinterpreted. Looking at its primary reference, we see that its meaning is not about physical birth, but about experiencing a spiritual renewal. It is an expression used by many Protestants to define the moment or process of fully accepting faith in Jesus Christ. It is an experience when the teachings of Christianity and Jesus become real, and the “born again” acquire a personal relationship with God2.

Also, we will be in prayer about this process.

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:3-8, Colossians 1:15-18, Romans 8:29, Revelation 1:5, 1 Corinthians 15:50, Galatians 4:26, 2 John 1, 2 John 13, Revelation 12:1-5, Hebrews 12:23, Malachi 3:1 - King James Version​

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say...

Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[st_worm2]

Thursday 7-6-23 5th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 17 5783, 16th. Summer Day

Hello, I have been thinking about the OP and the different posts, but have not received any revelation on what Jesus was talking about to Nicodemus.

Hello Walter and Debbie, I believe that the Lord Jesus was referring to Ezekiel 36:25-27 when He talked to Nicodemus about being "born again". The NT reference that I would also point someone to about being born again (which I believe refers most directly to quickening or regeneration) is Ephesians 2:1-5, particularly v5, where we see that the Lord causes those who will be His, those who were also dead (spiritually), to be quickened/made alive (spiritually) in Christ.

Question, what are the "different posts" that you refer to above. Is this thread a continuation of another thread by any chance, and if so, could you give me a link to it so that I can catch up?

Thank you

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - you are correct (further down in your OP) about there being a number of different definitions out there about what being "born again" actually means. I look forward to reading more

Ezekiel 36​

25 “I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. ​

26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ​

27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.” ​

​

Ephesians 2​

1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, ​

2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. ​

3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. ​

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, ​

5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).​

.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Hello Walter and Debbie, I believe that the Lord Jesus was referring to Ezekiel 36:25-27 when He talked to Nicodemus about being "born again". The NT reference that I would also point someone to about being born again (which I believe refers most directly to quickening or regeneration) is Ephesians 2:1-5, particularly v5, where we see that the Lord causes those who will be His, those who were also dead (spiritually), to be quickened/made alive (spiritually) in Christ.

Question, what are the "different posts" that you refer to above. Is this thread a continuation of another thread by any chance, and if so, could you give me a link to it so that I can catch up?

Thank you

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - you are correct (further down in your OP) about there being a number of different definitions out there about what being "born again" actually means. I look forward to reading more

Ezekiel 36​

25 “I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. ​

26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ​

27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.” ​

​

Ephesians 2​

1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, ​

2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. ​

3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. ​

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, ​

5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).​

.

Hi st_worm2, The post that you I think asked for is on page 6 post #114.

What does "born again" mean?

Hi all, Does "born again" mean that you simply believe in faith or simply chose to believe in faith in Jesus Christ, or does it also mean that you have to be baptized? I hope this is a simple answer. Thank you.

www.christianityboard.com

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Hello Walter and Debbie, I believe that the Lord Jesus was referring to Ezekiel 36:25-27 when He talked to Nicodemus about being "born again". The NT reference that I would also point someone to about being born again (which I believe refers most directly to quickening or regeneration) is Ephesians 2:1-5, particularly v5, where we see that the Lord causes those who will be His, those who were also dead (spiritually), to be quickened/made alive (spiritually) in Christ.

Question, what are the "different posts" that you refer to above. Is this thread a continuation of another thread by any chance, and if so, could you give me a link to it so that I can catch up?

Thank you

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - you are correct (further down in your OP) about there being a number of different definitions out there about what being "born again" actually means. I look forward to reading more

Ezekiel 36​

25 “I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. ​

26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ​

27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.” ​

​

Ephesians 2​

1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, ​

2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. ​

3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. ​

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, ​

5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).​

.

Interesting.

Love, Walter

 

[st_worm2]

Hi st_worm2, The post that you I think asked for is on page 6 post #141.

What does "born again" mean?

Hi all, Does "born again" mean that you simply believe in faith or simply chose to believe in faith in Jesus Christ, or does it also mean that you have to be baptized? I hope this is a simple answer. Thank you.

www.christianityboard.com

Thanks. I'll bookmark it so that I can refer to it if necessary. I've never been on that particular forum before. It appears to be a pretty active one

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Thanks. I'll bookmark it so that I can refer to it if necessary. I've never been on that particular forum before. It appears to be a pretty active one

I have been there for some time.

Thanks, Walter

 

[Tenchi]

Hello, I have been thinking about the OP and the different posts, but have not received any revelation on what Jesus was talking about to Nicodemus. But I'm glad to have an understanding of these views on this thread and more on other site forums.

I was looking at: It is by scripture we as Christians are not Born Again until we are caught up to be with Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58

Well, Scripture is pretty clear what being "born-again" entails.

John 3:3-6 (ESV)
3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 8:9-11 (ESV)
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Titus 3:4-6 (ESV)
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

2 Corinthians 5:17 (ESV)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Ephesians 2:4-6 (ESV)
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Colossians 2:11-13 (ESV)
11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, (See also: Romans 6:1-6)

1 John 4:13 (ESV)
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

Neither 1 Thessalonians 4:17 nor 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 speak to being born-again. They speak of the resurrection of the physical body and its glorification, not of the spiritual "second birth" by which we are made a "new creation" in Christ, occupied by the Holy Spirit who makes of us his "temple" (1 Corinthians 3:16; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20) and whose presence within imparts to the born-again person the life of Christ.

Interestingly, the "second birth" is, in part, a death. By the Spirit, we are united with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection and freed from the power of the "old man," the source of all our sin (Romans 6:1-6). As Paul wrote, we died with Christ and are thereby made "dead to sin." We are then "made alive" spiritually, raised into "new life" in Jesus (Romans 6:7-11) And so, Paul wrote, "...for you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God." (Colossians 3:1-3)

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I have been there for some time.

Thanks, Walter

Hi David you are welcome.

Love, Walter

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Well, Scripture is pretty clear what being "born-again" entails.

John 3:3-6 (ESV)
3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 8:9-11 (ESV)
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Titus 3:4-6 (ESV)
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

2 Corinthians 5:17 (ESV)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Ephesians 2:4-6 (ESV)
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Colossians 2:11-13 (ESV)
11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, (See also: Romans 6:1-6)

1 John 4:13 (ESV)
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

Neither 1 Thessalonians 4:17 nor 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 speak to being born-again. They speak of the resurrection of the physical body and its glorification, not of the spiritual "second birth" by which we are made a "new creation" in Christ, occupied by the Holy Spirit who makes of us his "temple" (1 Corinthians 3:16; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20) and whose presence within imparts to the born-again person the life of Christ.

Interestingly, the "second birth" is, in part, a death. By the Spirit, we are united with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection and freed from the power of the "old man," the source of all our sin (Romans 6:1-6). As Paul wrote, we died with Christ and are thereby made "dead to sin." We are then "made alive" spiritually, raised into "new life" in Jesus (Romans 6:7-11) And so, Paul wrote, "...for you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God." (Colossians 3:1-3)

Sir, You are entitled to your views, thank you.

Love, Walter

 

[Tenchi]

Sir, You are entitled to your views, thank you.

Views? I just quoted Scripture and pointed out what it says. I didn't offer any "views"...

Anyway, you're welcome.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Views? I just quoted Scripture and pointed out what it says. I didn't offer any "views"...

Anyway, you're welcome.

But I pointed out the Scriptures also.

 

[Tenchi]

But I pointed out the Scriptures also.

Right. But then you added your own ideas to them - at least, you added to the ones I noted in my last post (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58). You wrote:

"I was looking at: It is by scripture we as Christians are not Born Again until we are caught up to be with Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58"

Neither of the Scripture references you offer here say "Christians are not born again until we are caught up to be with Christ." They don't even imply such a thing. So, yes, you pointed to Scripture as I did, but where I simply let Scripture speak for itself, or restated what Scripture says, you added your own spin to it.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Right. But then you added your own ideas to them - at least, you added to the ones I noted in my last post (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58). You wrote:

"I was looking at: It is by scripture we as Christians are not Born Again until we are caught up to be with Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58"

Neither of the Scripture references you offer here say "Christians are not born again until we are caught up to be with Christ." They don't even imply such a thing. So, yes, you pointed to Scripture as I did, but where I simply let Scripture speak for itself, or restated what Scripture says, you added your own spin to it.

Thank you for your understanding Tenchi, we are in prayer with this subject please be patient with us, would you?

 

[Tenchi]

Thank you for your understanding Tenchi, we are in prayer with this subject please be patient with us, would you?

I'm not impatient. Not at all. I applaud your desire and efforts to encourage others spiritually. But such efforts come with a very heavy responsibility to be sure of the truth of what one is "putting out there" before one does.

James 3:1
1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

Though it might not seem like it, I make my responses to what you've posted to help you, to aid your understanding of God's truth.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

7-7-23
I'm looking at the word Begotten, any scriptural revelation? I think it is good to ask these kinds of questions.

 

[Tenchi]

I'm looking at the word Begotten, any scriptural revelation? I think it is good to ask these kinds of questions.

In the case of Christ, "begotten" speaks of relational priority, not of a causal relationship between God the Father and Christ where the Father creates the Son. God the Father is "first among equals" in the Godhead, not the Creator of the Son and Holy Spirit. If either Jesus or the Holy Spirit are created beings, they cannot be God; for God is, by definition, uncreated, ase ("from self"), as speakers of Latin might say, the Uncaused Cause.

We are "begotten of God" as His spiritual children, through our trust in Christ as our Savior and Lord adopted into His kingdom and family. We are "born-again" by the Holy Spirit, who imparts to us the life of Christ, making of us "new creations" in himself. This is a spiritual state-of-affairs, though, not a physical one.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

In the case of Christ, "begotten" speaks of relational priority, not of a causal relationship between God the Father and Christ where the Father creates the Son. God the Father is "first among equals" in the Godhead, not the Creator of the Son and Holy Spirit. If either Jesus or the Holy Spirit are created beings, they cannot be God; for God is, by definition, uncreated, ase ("from self"), as speakers of Latin might say, the Uncaused Cause.

We are "begotten of God" as His spiritual children, through our trust in Christ as our Savior and Lord adopted into His kingdom and family. We are "born-again" by the Holy Spirit, who imparts to us the life of Christ, making of us "new creations" in himself. This is a spiritual state-of-affairs, though, not a physical one.

Tenchi, it takes time for a certain thing to take place in one's life, you are correct, Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

 

[Vinny37]

I’d firstly discount the term, Born Again, which surely tends to reincarnationalism. It’s a matter of good translation. Jesus threw out an ambiguous term (born anew) as a test. Nicodemus threw back a silly mistake (that born anew = born again). Jesus scotched Nicodemus, and underlined that the OT portrayed another kind of birth/insight, a spiritual birth/insight—ie, that born anew = born from above. Hence William Tyndale was not Born Again!

No English version is spot on IMO, but here’s basically what I take to have been the rally: Ambiguity; Option A (again); Option B (anew/spiritual). [Jesus answered, ‘I assure you, unless someone is born anew, it’s not possible [for them] to see God’s kingdom.’ Nicodemus said to him, ‘How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot re-enter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?’ Jesus answered…. ‘Do not be astonished that I said to you, “You must be born from above.”’] (CEB/NABRE/NRSV)

Nicodemus was born into God’s Sinaitic kingdom, and had insight into that. But Jesus was introducing a new level of insight, of kingdom, the messianic. You could not simply switch from Sinai into the messianic, nor be physically born into it. To enter in, to see it, needed a spiritual birth into it, and within you would see spiritual truth at a deeper level.

Only after Jesus’ death did that kingdom (insight level, described as a birth) actually go public domain, and it was entered into by seeing and welcoming (Jhn.1:12) that Jesus was the ultimate messiah from God. Humans are children of God at the common level (‘in Adam’), could be children of God at the Sinai level, but are only exclusively children of God at the messianic level, ‘in Christ’: Jhn.14:6. There is thus a distinct well of Christian revelation, to be enjoyed only as Christians.

Thursday 7-6-23 5th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 17 5783, 16th. Summer Day

Hello, I have been thinking about the OP and the different posts, but have not received any revelation on what Jesus was talking about to Nicodemus. But I'm glad to have an understanding of these views on this thread and more on other site forums.

I was looking at: It is by scripture we as Christians are not Born Again until we are caught up to be with Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58

But here are some views from Bing:
In Christianity, being born again means having a spiritual renewal or change of heart by accepting Jesus as the Savior and Lord. It is not about physical birth or external requirements, but about receiving salvation and becoming part of God’s family1.

The phrase “born again” is frequently misinterpreted. Looking at its primary reference, we see that its meaning is not about physical birth, but about experiencing a spiritual renewal. It is an expression used by many Protestants to define the moment or process of fully accepting faith in Jesus Christ. It is an experience when the teachings of Christianity and Jesus become real, and the “born again” acquire a personal relationship with God2.

Also, we will be in prayer about this process.

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:3-8, Colossians 1:15-18, Romans 8:29, Revelation 1:5, 1 Corinthians 15:50, Galatians 4:26, 2 John 1, 2 John 13, Revelation 12:1-5, Hebrews 12:23, Malachi 3:1 - King James Version​

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say...

Love, Walter And Debbie