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When does God put souls into bodies?

FreeGrace said:
I said this:
"Both the first and Last Adam had material bodies prepared BEFORE the soul was united with the body, as both Gen 2:7 and Heb 10:5 indicate. Gen 2:7 is direct, and Heb 10:5 indicates that."
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And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Genesis 2:7

Adam, which includes Adam's body did not live without spirit within.

Likewise a human body that is growing within it's mothers womb must have a spirit within to be "alive" and grow.

For the body without the spirit is dead. James 2:26

Why would you or anyone else argue with this simple foundational truth?

What are you possible trying to prove by insinuating that a human baby that is alive and growing within it's mothers womb, does not have a spirit?



JLB



 
JLB said:
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Genesis 2:7
Adam, which includes Adam's body did not live without spirit within.
Likewise a human body that is growing within it's mothers womb must have a spirit within to be "alive" and grow.
For the body without the spirit is dead. James 2:26
Why would you or anyone else argue with this simple foundational truth?
What are you possible trying to prove by insinuating that a human baby that is alive and growing within it's mothers womb, does not have a spirit?JLB
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I've already explained and answered all this. What is it, specifically, that isn't being understood in my responses? And why are my responses being ignored. What I'm seeing is just re-hashing of your points. No interaction with mine.

The best way to respond is to take my statements or points individually, and either refute them from clear Scripture, or explain why my points don't make sense. I have taken most of your statements or points one by one and answered them or refuted them, yet nothing in return to refute that.

Simply repeating oneself is useless. Doesn't advance the discussion and appears to show that there is no defense for your position.
 
Yes, and that was my point in answer to the OP question. When does God put souls into bodies. When we take our first breath in this world he intends us to inhabit.
Becoming a living being.


FreeGrace said:
There are 3 phrases here. Let's break them down.

#1 "Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground" This refers to the preparation of the body, or the material part of man. No argument, hopefully.

#2 "and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life" This refers to placing the immaterial part of man, commonly called the soul into the prepared body.

#3 "and the man BECAME a living creature/being" This refers to the point in time WHEN the material joined with the immaterial BECOMES a living human being. Not before the joining, and not after the separation.

Gen 2:7 reveals the ORDER that God used to create the first human being: material body prepared, immaterial soul placed in the body, and man became a living being.
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Deborah13 said:
What is the definition of a living being?
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Gen 2:7 (NASB) Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Gen 2:7 shows how a human being is created: the union of a material body with an immaterial soul. A living human being.

If the union of material and immaterial, there is no longer a living human being. Even if the dead body is hooked to life support machines, it is still considered a dead body.

A mother-to-be is the life support for the fertilized egg, embryo, and fetus.
 
Smiley_Elephant said:
Just what the Bible says I believe.
Genesis 2:7
Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.


Remember Your Creator in Your Youth
Ecclesiastes 12:7
And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
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That doesn't help me much to understand. What is the Bible's and your definition of a living being/living creature? I guess that is what I should have asked.
 
FreeGrace said:
Gen 2:7 (NASB) Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Gen 2:7 shows how a human being is created: the union of a material body with an immaterial soul. A living human being.

If the union of material and immaterial, there is no longer a living human being. Even if the dead body is hooked to life support machines, it is still considered a dead body.

A mother-to-be is the life support for the fertilized egg, embryo, and fetus.
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Where did you hear that a person on life support is considered a dead body? That is an out and out lie.

"Life support replaces or supports a failing bodily function. When patients have curable or treatable conditions, life support is used temporarily until the illness or disease can be stabilized and the body can resume normal functioning. At times, the body never regains the ability to function without life support.....
Some people on long-term mechanical ventilation are able to live a quality of life that is important to them.." http://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/healthy_living/hic_Understanding_Life_Support_Measures

When a person goes through a heart transplant are they dead when there is a machine cycling the blood through their body? :nonono They are not dead, they are a living soul, without a heart in their chest.
 
FreeGrace said:
Most of Christianity believes that the moment of conception is when a human being is created, body and soul.

However, from Gen 2:7, we see that God FIRST prepared a body "from the dust of the ground", BEFORE He breathed into the nostrils the "breath of life", or soul. Only then did "man become a living being". So, for the first Adam, the order was prepare a body, and then put the soul into the body, creating a living being.

Also, we know from Heb 10:5 that God prepared a body for the Son of God. So, for the Last Adam, the order was prepare a body for His Son. Obviously God didn't create a soul for His Son, since His Son has always existed. But Heb 10:5 does indicate that a body was prepared for Him.

So it would appear that God's order is to prepare a body before the soul is placed into the body.

Can anyone show from Scripture that God's order is REVERSED for everyone else, if in fact the soul is created at conception?
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According to Genesis 2:7, Adam BECAME a soul when God breathed into him. God didn't PLACE a soul into Adam.
 
Deborah13 said:
That doesn't help me much to understand. What is the Bible's and your definition of a living being/living creature? I guess that is what I should have asked.
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I think human being is the point. Gen 2:7 describes the creation of the first human being. God prepared a material body, and then joined that material body with an immaterial soul. Then, man became a human being.
 
Deborah13 said:
Where did you hear that a person on life support is considered a dead body? That is an out and out lie.
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I wish others would pay attention to all that I post before making such a mistake. I said when people have DIED and their bodies are put on life support for the PURPOSE of organ donation. I never ever said anything about everyone who is on life support is dead. That is just completely false. But I forgive your error.

When a person goes through a heart transplant are they dead when there is a machine cycling the blood through their body? :nonono They are not dead, they are a living soul, without a heart in their chest.
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If their soul leaves the body, and EEG goes flat, yup; they're dead. If the EEG becomes active again, means their soul returned to their body and they are again alive.
 
Okay. Genesis 2:7 says "into his nostrils"

I think everyone is afraid that people will feel differently about fetuses or something. I was pregnant and found out at 7 weeks my baby was growing in my fallopian tube. Is this fetus going to be in heaven? I don't believe so.

It is okay. As Christians, we don't end lives.........(talking about aborting) but we shouldn't cast such judgment on others.

I find such hypocrisy today with Christians taking such stands on abortions, but support military actions. I know this is not going to be popular.:eek
 
I'm not sure the intent of this forum is to justify abortion so I think it would be best to stay on the topic of the OP please.
 
WIP said:
I'm not sure the intent of this forum is to justify abortion so I think it would be best to stay on the topic of the OP please.
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I didn't think LTD was supporting abortion, but just giving some facts surrounding her own pregnancy. I've been clear that I don't support abortion even though I don't consider an undeveloped fetus or earlier to be a human being. Rather, it is body being prepared for the soul, just like the order seen in Gen 2:7.

But I think LTD made a good point about hypocrisy. What is ended in an abortion is the ending of the preparation of a body for a soul. And the liberal agenda of abortion on demand is evil. We never should minimize God's plan.

However, as a side-conversation, consider the scenario where the mothers' life will be threatened by a pregnancy or delivery. For those who consider a fetus or earlier to be a human being with a soul, whose life should be spared?

For those who understand Gen 2:7, it is a no-brainer.
 
FreeGrace said:
Even if the dead body is hooked to life support machines, it is still considered a dead body.
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FreeGrace said:
I said when people have DIED and their bodies are put on life support for the PURPOSE of organ donation.
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You never mention for the purpose of organ donation and considering what you said...
FreeGrace said:
A mother-to-be is the life support for the fertilized egg, embryo, and fetus.
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That would be the same as someone who is on a feeding tube and air supply, who can be a conscious thinking person....
FreeGrace said:
If their soul leaves the body, and EEG goes flat, yup; they're dead. If the EEG becomes active again, means their soul returned to their body and they are again alive.
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Ahhh.....so if an EEG is not flat they are not dead. Bravo, I agree. So to you a living soul is one who has brain waves. I agree again, even if they are being supported by something/someone outside themselves for air and nourishment.

So it seems to me, that your sole support for your argument comes down to proving that in the womb the living body of a humankind or an animal kind does Not have brain waves while living in the environment of the womb.
 
FreeGrace said:
Please explain the purpose, then, of putting a soul into a fertilized egg.
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Because someone is unaware of a purpose, does not exclude that there is a purpose. I can not answer your question because I lack an answer, as do you.

FreeGrace said:
We see the order in the first Adam in Gen 2:7 and in the Last Adam in Heb 10:5. This has not been explained otherwise, nor refuted.
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You see chronological order; I see statements that may be simultaneous events.

FreeGrace said:
I will repeat: I am not in favor, and in fact oppose, the casual ending of physiological or biological life in the womb. Therefore, I am opposed to any casual approach to abortion.
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I am opposed to any approach to abortion, casual or otherwise! Again, your openness to non-casual abortion may lead to a third party justifying an abortion.

FreeGrace said:
Let me ask you or anyone on this thread: if your wive's life is in high danger of dying during childbirth, and there is a choice to end the pregnancy or let her deliver and die, what would you do?
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The LORD chooses our days, not the husband. Does someone abort a child because of a 'high danger' of death to the wife? Kill the wife or kill the child! Sheesh!

Can you know the end before something happens? The LORD is an expert at overcoming 'high danger' and improbabilities. Can you justify taking the life of an unborn child?

Is this why you started this thread . . . to justify abortion because you think an embryo or fetus or child in womb does not have a soul?


.
 
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