What you forget is that two-thirds of translations DO NOT AGREE with that translation. If we were going by majority vote of Bible translators, your acceptance of 'miscarry' would be dead in the water.
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When does God put souls into bodies?
- Thread starter FreeGrace
- Start date
chessman
Member
Notice anything significant about the majority of the translations that choose miscarry?
Umm, they're old:
- miscarriage — (n.) 1580s, mistake, error; 1610s, misbehavior; see MISCARRY (Cf. miscarry) + AGE (Cf. age). Meaning untimely delivery is from 1660s. Miscarriage of justice is from 1875 … Etymology dictionary
http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/cide/111952/Miscarriage
That is funny!!
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26
The body. A human body without the spirit with is dead.
The body of a human being inside the mother's womb can not grow and develop if it is dead.
This scripture is clear and can not be refuted by your unscriptural opinion.
JLB
LovethroughDove
Member
James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead
Does this go for anything living with a body? animals and such
Does this go for anything living with a body? animals and such
The context is about people, who have faith from God.
If animals have a spirit within, then I would think it would also pertain to them as well.
I know there are horse's in heaven.
JLB
B
Brother Mike
Guest
That is funny!!
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26
The body. A human body without the spirit with is dead.
The body of a human being inside the mother's womb can not grow and develop if it is dead.
This scripture is clear and can not be refuted by your unscriptural opinion.
JLB
God forms us (spirit) in a man, that has to be the point of conception. Adam was a living soul, or Adam was aware of his surroundings. The Soul is just our mental state, emotions, will.
A baby is a spirit, in a flesh body, without the baby (spirit) it's flesh body would be dead.
The soul is something we save, Paul even believed unto the saving of the Soul which can conform to our new spirit which is born again.
The spirit of man goes back to God, then judgement.
Nothing in scripture denotes animals having a spirit, or continue on after death. Nothing in scripture says they don't.
This scripture may denote animals in Heaven as where God sits on His throne.
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
(Rev 5:13)
Since the scripture separates those on earth which would include the Earth Realm it might mean actual animals in Heaven, However it also denotes place under the Earth and separated those in the Sea on earth. So it might mean the Heavens such as birds and things that fly.
It would depend on who you ask.
Now if you take accounts of those that claim to have visited Heaven, then there are animals in heaven and that would mean they also are spirit beings.
Brother Mike!
Brother Mike has just MYTH BUSTED, this Theory.
Case Closed!
Brother Mike in the house!!!
2JLB
Yeah!!! Like Elijah.
Poor Elijah, he just couldn't quite measure up for a set of wings.
Deborah13
Member
Here is a scripture using the word 'ek' which tells a place from where something is being done. In sense of out of/from the place.
Luk 5:3 And he entered into one of the ships, which was Simon's, and prayed him that he would thrust out a little from the land. And he sat down, and taught the people out of the ship.
Does this mean he went out of the ship before he taught them?
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even [out of] his mother's womb.
The Holy Spirit expressing the timing as 'even' makes the event 'even' more exceptional.
Less you have some other grammatical reason this is an incorrect comparison.....
"of the place forth from which one does something: διδάσκειν ἐκ τοῦ πλοίου, Luke 5:3 (here Tdf. ἐν etc.)"
http://biblehub.com/greek/1537.htm
Gregg
Member
"For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar, to atone for your souls; for it is the blood which makes atonement for the soul" (Lev 17:11 LITV). This verse looked forward to Jesus Christ shedding His physical blood. It is no irony that we have spiritual life in Him because of the shedding of His blood. Christ's physical life, the animated life of His flesh [His body prepared for Him] was in His blood, and it is that blood which was given on the Altar; He being both the Sacrifice and the Altar, both the High Priest and the Offering.
"For it is the life of all flesh; its blood is for its life . . ." (Lev 17:14 LITV); "all" being the flesh of animals, Adam and his descendants, and the flesh of Jesus Christ.
Christ gave His life, the life of His flesh which was in His blood, ". . . and to give His life a ransom for many" (Mat 20:28 LITV). Christ's blood was poured out for our ransom (Mat 26:29). His physical life was in His physical blood, both given and poured out for our ransom. Did Christ give His Soul or Spirit for our redemption? No, He gave His physical life which was in His blood (Rom 3:25, Eph 1:7, 1Jn 1:7, Rev 1:5).
". . . This is My body being given for you . . . This cup is the New Covenant in My blood, which is being poured out for you" (Luk 22:19-20 LITV). Jesus Christ gave His physical flesh and His physical blood on behalf of the Church. His life was in His blood, and His life by way of His blood was offered upon the Altar salvation and eternal life. Perhaps His physical blood was also presented before the Father in Heaven (Heb 9:11-14).
That is the way I understand it.
In addition, there is the problem of some of these 'miscarry' translations being one-man and not committee Bible translations. I'm thinking particularly of The Living Bible and The Message. When it came to revising the Kenneth Taylor Living Bible, there was a move to a committee translation known as the New Living Translation, what was the translation?
'Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely.[a] If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve. 23 But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life' (Ex 21:22-23),
Footnotes:
[a] 21:22 Or so she has a miscarriage; Hebrew reads so her children come out.
Footnotes:
[a] 21:22 Or so she has a miscarriage; Hebrew reads so her children come out.
I recommend the NLT as an excellent committee translation in simple language. I read and have taught NT Greek. However, in this committee revision of The Living Bible, the translation in the text is 'gives birth prematurely' and the translation, 'she has a miscarriage' is relegated to secondary status in a footnote.
Oz
Gregg
Member
Take Lk 1:44 as you may, but it was the babe that leaped, not Elizabeth; and it was John who exulted, not Elizabeth. John was filled with the Holy Spirit while yet unborn physically (Lk 1:15).
I am concerned that your point of view regarding life, that it begins at birth and not at conception, may lead to the justification of abortion by third parties. Whether or not the penalty for abortion is spiritually civil or criminal, you might be complicit by [knowingly or unknowingly] helping a third party to justify an abortion. I hope you will reconsider your viewpoint; but if not please keep it private.
But Jeremiah was sanctified and ordained before coming out of the womb (Jer 1:5). He must have had a soul and spirit at that time, as the LORD was not talking about consecrating his flesh.
Esau and Jacob were alive before being born. They had souls, personalities, emotion, blood and life . . . as they struggled with one another while yet unborn; "And the sons struggled together within her" (Gen 25:22 a LITV).
Gregg,
Have you seen some of the pictures in Abortion and American Holocaust? These are horrific images. I find it hard to understand those who do not see these aborted babies as children whose lives were slaughtered.
Oz
chessman
Member
Exodus 21:22 (KJV) If men strive, ...
Your text says that only one man was trying to hurt another man???Yet the KJV Text says men (plural) Plus, they were striving against each other.
Yet only one deserves the punishment. Think that thru based on your idea that the punishment was for one desiring to harm another.
What's more, the one that hit the pregnant women (not just a women, but a pregnant non-striving bystander) get's punishment that's based on what happens to the child (not a fetus, as you keep calling it). Think that thru too based on your idea that harm to the child isn't harm to a soul.
Since they were both striving against each other, what, was it a miscarriage of justice not to punish both of them?
B
Brother Mike
Guest
If tomato's just start as seeds, then why do we plant them expecting tomatoes?
If you dig a place for a swimming pool, then why get upset if someone comes at night and fills it up with concrete saying you destroyed my swimming pool, and not saying you filled my hole in the ground? Are they not also responsible for destroying what was going to be your plans for a pool?
If people really thought as they speak, why is there a tomato on the package of tomato seeds, and not a picture of the tomato seed?
If the farmer is counting on money to sell chickens by counting his eggs before they hatch, why is he upset at the loss of his chicken sales after the foxes break in and eat all the eggs?
If Mary had a miscarriage at conception and Jesus was never born, YOU WOULD NOT EVEN BE TYPING HERE!!!!!!!!
Being fast as a Horse is nice................. But it don't beat flying. Have to work harder. And ya, Myth busted big time.
Deborah13
Member
That really interesting. So I started searching because the Lockman website search read 'premature'. Bizarre. BUT..
I found this on Pathos....
"Here is how Exodus 21:22-25 read in the New American Standard Bible’s 1977 revision of its 1971 original translation:
And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is not further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
You can see how this fits in the context of the chapter. Here is another category of victim for which another set of punishments for violence is given. If a pregnant woman gets struck “so that she has a miscarriage,” but is not herself injured, then the man who struck her must pay a fine. But if the woman herself is injured, then the same rules and punishments for striking any other (non-slave) person apply — “life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, etc.”
But here’s the same passage in 1995 in the updated current version of the NASB:
If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
“So that she has a miscarriage” has been replaced with “so that she gives birth prematurely.”"
Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slackt...in-partisan-bible-translations/#ixzz3VAPOsgwz
dianegcook
Member
Amen!
John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
One must descend before one can ascend.
Born again, means, born from above.
Good evening, God Bless
Deborah13
Member
Ok.
Can we talk about that body and what is a 'living being', in this case a human being.
Does a partially formed body disqualify a single cell from being, a being?
I would say that it depends on the kind of cell that it is. Some cells just replicate themselves, loosely speaking, like skin cells, that is what they are programmed to do. But when we look at a fertilized one celled egg, it is a different kind of cell, by definition it is an organism, a 'being'.
Simple definition....
noun, plural: organisms
(Science: Biology)
An individual living thing that can react to stimuli, reproduce, grow, and maintain homeostasis. It can be a virus, bacterium, protist, fungus, plant or an animal
Supplement
Word origin: Greek organon = instrument.
Related forms: organismic (adjective), organismal (adjective), organismically (adverb).
Synonym: living thing, living being, individual.
Can the one celled human fertalized egg react to stimuli? Yes, in fact it does within seconds of being fertilized it forms a protective layer around itself to keep out other foreign intruders such as sperm cells.
Any honest scientist will tell you this is human being that will grow until it has formed all of it's individual parts.
Just because the body is one cell at this point in time doesn't make it any less of a human body.
a : the organized physical substance of an animal or plant either living or dead: as (1) : the material part or nature of a human being (2) : a dead organism : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/body
The human being is by definition organized at each stage of it's growth and on a determined path of continued organized growth. In fact, it will just keep growing until it grows to it's full adult size of many, many cells.
So my question is.....
What would keep this one celled human being's body from being the prepared body for a soul/spirit?
Job 10:11 Skin and flesh Thou dost put on me, And with bones and sinews dost fence me.
Job 10:12 Life and kindness Thou hast done with me. And Thy inspection hath preserved my spirit.
Job 10:13 And these Thou hast laid up in Thy heart, I have known that this is with Thee.
