Amen.
Once people see that the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming, it’s game over for the deceiving doctrine of the pre trib rapture.
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When is The Rapture, And How Does The Tribulation REALLY Work?
- Thread starter Mitch Etling
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Amen.
Once people see that the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming, it’s game over for the deceiving doctrine of the pre trib rapture.
The bride, the Church is gathered together in the air, high above the earth, safely away from what happens to those left on earth.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
- For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
The resurrected ones and the raptured ones, will be caught up in the air, at His coming.
Then comes the destruction of the wicked, and none shall escape.
This is understood throughout the scriptures and is called the Day of the Lord; the day of Christ
- For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4
The Scripture teaches us about the three main things that occur at the coming of the Lord, which are:
- The Resurrection
- The Rapture
- The destruction of the wicked
The antichrist is destroyed by the coming of the Lord as well; by the brightness of His coming.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8
JLB
Amen.
His coming is when the resurrection of the dead in Christ occur, on the last Day. Then just afterward is the rapture.
JLB
Atonement
Member
If you agree that the resurrection and rapture and destruction of the wicked including Antichrist occur at His coming then that is great.
Okay here is my question —
Do you believe the destruction of the Antichrist and the wicked occur before the tribulation or after?
Obviously the coming of the Lord refers to the Second Coming, which is the Day of the Lord, when He returns to Jerusalem to destroy the wicked and reign as King over the earth.
Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5
- Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.
- even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15
Actually the Olivet Discourse is Jesus teaching about these events from Zechariah.
JLB
I agree the wedding occurs in heaven.
I'm not sure of why you call the wedding a 'feast'.
Could you explain?
Quantrill
Atonement
Member
And this is where we disagree. I'm not going to preach, or ever get into this. I've done it for to long, nothing never comes from it.. So again my advise (if you are willing to listen to it) study the Feasts of the Lord. You can not throw the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacles before the Feasts of Trumpets. The quote above from you, has just done that! It's out of order, therefore what is being presented, is a theory, cause its out of order and does not make any sense with the prophetic Calendar.
Atonement
Member
Sorry for the confusion. The wedding is not a Feasts. I was only mentioning the wedding because you said to know when and where might shine some light.
There are Seven Feasts of the Lord
Passover
Unleavened
First Fruits
Pentecost
Trumpets
Atonement
Tabernacles
The 1st four were fulfilled precisely on the day by Christ. The 3 remaining are known as the Fall Feasts.
What is being presented is taking the Feast out of order. Then that position just becomes speculative
Hope that clears up any confusion
I agree with you on the importance of the feasts and that they are prophetic in nature.
What I said was that the time of the wedding of the Church to Christ, in it's place of prophetic events, would help identify the time and place of the Rapture, in those same prophetic events.
Quantrill
Atonement
Member
Gotcha...
As I stated in my previous post, its after the Bride is caught up with Christ in the air (Feast of Trumpets) . While there is a seven year tribulation happening on earth. The bride is appearing before the Bema seat and are having a wedding ceremony that last seven days (Jewish wedding customs) or years. Then we come back with our Groom (Feast of Atonement) to setup His Kingdom for 1000 years and reign with Him (Feast of Tabernacles)
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You said you agreed with what I wrote about the resurrection, rapture and destruction of the wicked occurring at His coming.
Now it’s out of order?
Sorry but 1 Thessalonians 4:15 will never change, it will always read the same.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15
The resurrection and rapture occur at Hs coming.
The destruction of the Antichrist occurs at His coming.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8
I hope you can see in the scriptures as the truth.
JLB
Atonement
Member
JLB...
I'm sorry but it is out of order. You see, you define the coming of the Lord as the Day of the Lord. And this I agree 100%.
But...
Its claimed by you that the Resurrection is at that time (Day of the Lord). Sorry, but that is the Feast of Atonement. It Does Not come before the Feast of Trumpets (the great assembly).
So yes, its a speculative view.
I'm sorry but it is out of order. You see, you define the coming of the Lord as the Day of the Lord. And this I agree 100%.
But...
Its claimed by you that the Resurrection is at that time (Day of the Lord). Sorry, but that is the Feast of Atonement. It Does Not come before the Feast of Trumpets (the great assembly).
So yes, its a speculative view.
Yes the scriptures clearly teach the coming of the Lord is the Day of the Lord: The Day of Christ when He returns to gather His people together at the resurrection and rapture.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:2
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
This is what the scriptures plainly and clearly teach.
You are trying to exalt your “understanding” of the feasts over what the plain and clear undeniable word of God says about His coming when He resurrects the dead in Christ, then after that the rapture.
Please be reasonable.
JLB
daninthelionsden
Member
The Word is not speculative. Demanding the Word bend to your prophetic interpretation of the feasts falls into speculation. Can you show in Scripture where Christ intends to follow the feasts as you speculate?
daninthelionsden
Member
It's the only way to make pre-trib even have a chance at validity is to bend the Word into multiple Days of the Lord.
Thank you, and God bless you.
I was hoping for some good dialog from you, that you would address what the Lord Jesus taught us here in 1 Thessalonians 4:15.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15
If the Lord says people remain here on earth until the coming of the Lord; the second coming of Christ, then we should believe Him.
The feast of trumpets is when He returns as no man knows the day or hour, which refers to the sighting of the new moon, on either the 29th day or the 30th day of the month.
But I see you are set in your view of the feasts.
Thank you sir, for your time.
Blessings to you.
JLB
The Day of the Lord refers to the Second coming of Christ, why is why it is also called the Day of Christ.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:2
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
In both of these scriptures we see the common association of the Day of the Lord, the gathering of His people, (resurrection and rapture) as well as the destruction of the wicked which includes the Antichrist.
I hope we can find common ground in these scriptures.
JLB