Atonement
Member
As stated, thats not a study at all, its observing days
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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When is The Rapture, And How Does The Tribulation REALLY Work?
- Thread starter Mitch Etling
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- rapture
Atonement
Member
^^ should be a good starting point. If you want videos from YouTube to help in these studies Let me know. I also referenced two books here as well. Knowledge is power
Bob Carabbio
Member
Which "authoritative" version of the truth would you like??
"Eschatology" is just another word meaning: "Rank Speculation". I.E. NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING, but everybody's got an "opinion"/"Theology" about it.
It'll all happen when it's time. since I'm almost 79, I expect to watch it all from the OTHER SIDE of the grass.
Atonement
Member
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
We ought not to be ignorant on the times
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to show yourself approved unto God
Taking the pan version (everything will just pan out) doesn't require much faith if you ask me. It takes faith and dedication to the Word to give answers to those who may ask you about your faith 1 Peter 3:15 .. to say oh it'll happen when it happens shows neither hot or cold faith. Just one standing on a wall leaning in any direction.
Yes study the scriptures, to show ourselves approved, not people’s commentary, and there version of the feasts.
These scriptures teach the truth.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15
This simple scripture plainly and clearly shows the resurrection and rapture, both occurring at His coming. The coming of the Lord is the Second Coming of Christ.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4
The Scripture teaches us about the three main things that occur at the coming of the Lord, which are:
- The Resurrection
- The Rapture
- The destruction of the wicked
The antichrist is destroyed by the coming of the Lord as well; by the brightness of His coming.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8
This is the scriptural order of things to come.
JLB
Atonement
Member
Yup.. I believed just the way you did 20 years ago. Then I kept digging and kept dulging deeper into Scripture. I'm certain of one thing.. The Feasts.... You won't put those Scriptures up with the Feasts because in no way does it fit your Theology. So you can continue to view and quote the same Scriptures that I even quote to people. But uou have absolutely no time line to base them on except your interpretation.
Atonement
Member
You should know being a person of stature on here. The Resurrection and the Rapture are milliseconds apart. Of course the dead rise first and then we which are remain are caught up. You give no place for the wedding ceremony, you give no place for the Bema seat. You must think all this happens either after the 1000 years or you mix it up with the Feast of Tabernacle. But either way, both of those are wrong!
By the way JLB... if it just a commentary
How is it then, that four Feasts in my view and position have been fulfilled precisely to the day by Christs 1st coming? Sorry but that gives me a little more balance and something to cling to then just commentary... what do you have? Thats right... Interpretation
So Yeah I'll go with fulfilled events on the same Timeline I keep mentioning here; cause it can not be disproven by hard post tribbers, but it can open the eyes to those who are willing.
By the way JLB... if it just a commentary
How is it then, that four Feasts in my view and position have been fulfilled precisely to the day by Christs 1st coming? Sorry but that gives me a little more balance and something to cling to then just commentary... what do you have? Thats right... Interpretation
So Yeah I'll go with fulfilled events on the same Timeline I keep mentioning here; cause it can not be disproven by hard post tribbers, but it can open the eyes to those who are willing.
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Bob Carabbio
Member
It's IMPOSSIBLE to have ANY FAITH in Eschatological theories. There's little or NO agreement among theologians from various Denominational paradigms. The only thing that the majority DOES agree on is that there WILL BE an end to the age, and Born again Christians who are alive when that occurs, will find themselves with God in his heaven through some series of events. That's plenty enough for me.
If you were a Born Again Christian in China under Mao's regime being murdered for your faith how would you know it wasn't the Tribulation?? Or the situation in Islamic countries, where Christians are murdered by the box lot.
You do know that Napoleon was considered to be the Anti-Christ by many Church organizations - and the beat goes on -
But when you DON'T KNOW, and find the "Opinions of the highly educated Experts" to be contradictory, and worthless, then a simple "I don't know" indicates that there is NO FAITH in their pronouncements.
"Belief"/"Theology" can only HOPE, and postulate, but FAITH KNOWS (Heb 11:1)
daninthelionsden
Member
I believe the Bereans had it right as in Acts 17:11 in that Scripture is the gold standard by which all biblical concepts/theories/teachings/theologies/prophecies etc are to be judged. If anything doesn't line up with Scripture, it is hit and miss at best and not the other way around. Scripture should be first and foremost used to interpret other Scripture.
Atonement
Member
Dan, I agree with you whole heartily. Which is why I believe we have a true Scriptural view of God's Timeline. I'm not here spreading false lies. I'm disagreed against with the majority, thus I'm disliked and scorned for offering a different opinion (Feast) brought here for open discussion.
On this Timeline I present through Scripture - Four have been fulfilled precisely by the Lord at His 1st coming (scripture with scripture so far). Dan there are three left remaining, and I believe God will fulfill the remaining three through Christ in order during His returning events or 2nd Coming events. Scripture is our finial authority, Scripture should balance with Scripture, test the Scripture - thus test everything you know against that which you not. Equal balance to all investigative finds within Scripture. We never stop seeking cause we believe we know, we seek Scripture, because we learn more of our Eternal God.
Amos 3:7
On this Timeline I present through Scripture - Four have been fulfilled precisely by the Lord at His 1st coming (scripture with scripture so far). Dan there are three left remaining, and I believe God will fulfill the remaining three through Christ in order during His returning events or 2nd Coming events. Scripture is our finial authority, Scripture should balance with Scripture, test the Scripture - thus test everything you know against that which you not. Equal balance to all investigative finds within Scripture. We never stop seeking cause we believe we know, we seek Scripture, because we learn more of our Eternal God.
Amos 3:7
Atonement
Member
Testing Scripture with Scripture.
Here are the Fullfilled Scriptural (Feasts); so there is no doubt to the reader that these are infact Scriptural.
1. Passover
Fullfilled - 1 Corinthians 5:7
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
2. Unleavened Bread
Fulfilled - 1 Corinthians 5:6-8
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I am the way, the truth and the life John 14:6
3. First Fruits
Fulfilled - 1 Corinthians 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
4. Pentecost
John 14:15-31 Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would come
Acts 2:1-4
Fulfilled the last of these Four Spring Feast on the very day.
I've Tested Scripture with Scripture here, unless you are a doubter or a scoffer of the Word, these are undeniably fulfilled by Christ, thus Scripture (The Word). At His first coming!
Now this leave us in a Conundrum
If the First Four were infact undeniably fulfilled by Christ to the very day..
One question: Are the remaining three going to be fulfilled by Christ? Answer: We know that He does in Scripture.
So the only question remains then, the timing? This is where I get scorned for my belief because I believe the next Three just like the previous Four will be fulfilled precisely in Order.
Feast of Trumpets - Christ comes back for His Bride, wedding ceremony, Bema seat.
Feast of Atonement - God turns His eyes back on Israel to fulfill Scripture, Daniel's 70th week and pours out His indignation onto a unbelieving world.
Feast of Tabernacles - Christ dwells with mankind for 1000 years showing his salvation, shelter, provisions to the world.
This leaves a pre-trib position to consider. Rather we agree upon it with each other on this thread or not. This can not be disproven, and it's undeniably Scripture. So tests it? If anyone goes back and rereads, they will notice I been saying all this time to line Scripture up with these Feasts. It opens the eyes of another posssible position to consider. That's all. But to preach the post-trib without any of this Scriptual evidence. You come into this conversation blindly. One man may quote Scripture (I can do that as well), heck who can't? But it takes time to dig deep and and truly study this. In the end its only knowledge, we won't loose salvation!
Hallelujah
Here are the Fullfilled Scriptural (Feasts); so there is no doubt to the reader that these are infact Scriptural.
1. Passover
Fullfilled - 1 Corinthians 5:7
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
2. Unleavened Bread
Fulfilled - 1 Corinthians 5:6-8
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I am the way, the truth and the life John 14:6
3. First Fruits
Fulfilled - 1 Corinthians 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
4. Pentecost
John 14:15-31 Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would come
Acts 2:1-4
Fulfilled the last of these Four Spring Feast on the very day.
I've Tested Scripture with Scripture here, unless you are a doubter or a scoffer of the Word, these are undeniably fulfilled by Christ, thus Scripture (The Word). At His first coming!
Now this leave us in a Conundrum
If the First Four were infact undeniably fulfilled by Christ to the very day..
One question: Are the remaining three going to be fulfilled by Christ? Answer: We know that He does in Scripture.
So the only question remains then, the timing? This is where I get scorned for my belief because I believe the next Three just like the previous Four will be fulfilled precisely in Order.
Feast of Trumpets - Christ comes back for His Bride, wedding ceremony, Bema seat.
Feast of Atonement - God turns His eyes back on Israel to fulfill Scripture, Daniel's 70th week and pours out His indignation onto a unbelieving world.
Feast of Tabernacles - Christ dwells with mankind for 1000 years showing his salvation, shelter, provisions to the world.
This leaves a pre-trib position to consider. Rather we agree upon it with each other on this thread or not. This can not be disproven, and it's undeniably Scripture. So tests it? If anyone goes back and rereads, they will notice I been saying all this time to line Scripture up with these Feasts. It opens the eyes of another posssible position to consider. That's all. But to preach the post-trib without any of this Scriptual evidence. You come into this conversation blindly. One man may quote Scripture (I can do that as well), heck who can't? But it takes time to dig deep and and truly study this. In the end its only knowledge, we won't loose salvation!
Hallelujah
I was told by pre tribbers quite recently if you dont believe in that you get left behind.
Atonement
Member
Ouch. Thank goodness our salvation does not depend on anything but the Blood of Jesus
its very common to hear that .
Bob Carabbio
Member
And I've been told by Catholics that If I don't respect their "Pope thing" I'll be Damned.
WHO CARES whit this or that "Religious Paradigmatic" thinks or says????
Atonement
Member
As a pre-triber myself, I would call out the other pre-trib person for not producing sound doctrine in accordance to ones salvation.
Atonement
Member
I care about this or that. If Jesus cared about it, that is enough for me, I care too. We are to follow in Jesus' footsteps, follow His example! If none of this mattered, then why is 2/3 of the Bible prophectic? Seems God thinks its important also, thus so do many others as well. Bob I dont speak for every Christian on here, and neither should you discourage Christians on here because you don't wanna believe "this or that"... Leave this to the hungry Christians seeking.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Do any of those scriptures say anything about we being caught up before the tribulation or that of Christ return, no.
Pretrib was never taught until the day Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland in the 1800’s had a vision of a pretrib rapture, but she felt that the vision felt dark and evil as an untruth. When telling others of her vision many preachers ran with it as being true and started teaching their theories on pretrib rapture that is found nowhere in scripture. These theories were handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something, but has no facts.
Atonement
Member
Lets compare Scripture with Scripture
The Lord Comes as a thief - Revelation 16:15, Matthew 24:43, 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 2 Peter 3:10
The Scripture you quoted found in Matthew 24:30 states that every eye will see Him and mourn. Then He sends His angels out to gather His elect. That doesn't connect any dots to the "thief" Scriptures quoted above. Infact it's literally the opposite. What's that about?
May I offer an idea? Maybe its the gathering of physical bodies of those who gave their lives to Christ during the Tribulation period? Those who died for the witness of Christ? After all, we do find them crying out to the Lord in Heaven in Revelation 6:10.
Joel 2:28
Acts 2:17
Proverbs 29:18
I wouldn't discredit the Holy Spirit or even dance around the idea whom He decides to open visions to (even about the rapture).
then you would spend more time doing that then anything .
my church has a mixed view on eschatology ,the elders who teach it are as you and the pastor isn't .