Which part of you is God (if any) ?

[glorydaz]

So you did say we are Sons of God and A Son of God is a God. So I can't speak for others but that is where I thought you were pretty clearly saying "we can be God". But as I stated in my previous post, you have been more clear that you are not saying "We are God". The way I am understanding what you are saying is that we have the capacity (through grace) to be as God, to be Christ-like. And we should not think that the power of God in Christ and Christ in us is not strong enough to deliver us from any and all sin. Is that close? If it is I'd say, ok, that seems to be the charge and should be our goal, and certainly most of us fall far short of the glory that God would have for us right now, but again I say that we are still somewhat bound by our humanity and the world we live in, so I think of it as a direction to move toward but a state that we don't fully attain.

I really, really know this is a difficult concept and most people will not understand what I am saying.Go back and read what I am saying about us being like the Tabernacle. The Tabernacle carried God within and it is from within the Tabernacle that God ruled Israel.

I really think I understand what you are saying, just not sure I am in agreement with your interpretation. I think what makes it difficult is when you say things like "I don't think many are ready to hear more than this" or "I really know this is a difficult concept". It comes across as a tad condescending though I'm sure you don't mean it to be.

Anyhow, I have enjoyed reading what you have said and am challenged to reach higher heights in my walk and be as Christ like as I can through His grace.

Regards,
Louis

I can see that you and I reached the same conclusions. The main problem Lucifer encountered was pride when he wanted to be like God. As the body of Christ, we are meant to serve our Head...Jesus Christ. We will be doing the work of God as we submit to His authority, but we are not to think more highly of ourselves than we ought. We are but the vessels our Lord uses to fulfill His will. The good that is manifest in the believer's life is not our own personal good, but His alone. The good works we do are His alone and to Christ goes all the glory. The very minute we desire even a small part of that glory, it becomes robbery from the only One worthy of glory and honor. Else we begin to say others don't see what we see or others haven't yet grasped the concept. Therein lies the danger of claiming any of the godliness in us as our own.

The judges in Israel were called "gods" because they had the authority of God. When Jesus referred to that, he did so to rebuke the pharisees for complaining that Jesus had claimed to be God. Jesus was pointing out their hypocrisy...not their status as gods. It's the same way some claim we'll be "worshipped" in Rev. The word isn't "worshipped" as pertaining to God, but is "bowed down to" as the authority of Kings and Priests. I've seen the claim of the church being gods before and we need to nip that idea in the bud. It's error and dangerous for the creation to aspire to the place reserved for the Creator.

 

[glorydaz]

I believe God is INSIDE of me, advising me. However, no part of ME is God.

When you say something like this, you are saying that your reborn spirit is not part of you

Our reborn spirit is not the Spirit of God...it is our spirit reborn. When Adam sinned, his spirit died...his connection with God's spirit was deadened by his sin. Sin separates us from God. When we're born-again, our spirit is quickened within us and we can then fellowship with God again. Our spirit and His Holy Spirit within us are then in communion. Just as the Lord intended when He created man....to have fellowship with God.

God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

God hates sin because of the estrangement between man and God...thus He sent His Son to remove the barrier and make a way for man to have eternal life and enter into a loving relationship with God, his Creator.

 

[Cornelius]

I believe God is INSIDE of me, advising me. However, no part of ME is God.

When you say something like this, you are saying that your reborn spirit is not part of you

Hi Cornelius - I've just had one of those 'aha' moments while reading this post.

I can't say I've ever thought of my spirit being 'reborn'. I've always considered that my spirit was 'birthed' within me by the Holy Spirit - this being the one and only time when I was born again. Where in scripture do you find support for the spirit being 'reborn'?

Is this some sort of residue of religious dogma?

Ah , you caught me out on a shortcut I used that word (reborn), just to try and get some understanding across without adding more confusion. We do not have a once "reborn" situation ever. We are "being born from above" all the time, as we submit to the Word. Like a glass getting filled with water, slowly the air (our old self) is replaced by the Truth/Christ/Word/God.

Our old self is dead (I am crucified with Christ and no longer live ) and not my spirit is Christ (but Christ living in me) Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me:


The more we are renewed by the Word, the more of Christ we manifest. We are truly being born into His image all the time .............IF ..............we submit to the whole Word. That is why this following scripture has the word "IF" in it, because manifesting Christ is not going to happen to all Christians.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.

The KJV says it differently, but its not "when" it is "IF". They only translated it "when He shall appear" because they thought that this is speaking of His return with the clouds. Its not, its speaking of the manifestation of the sons of God (John 16 )

 

[Cornelius]

When you say something like this, you are saying that your reborn spirit is not part of you

There is one God, and I am not he. Right?

You are correct

 

[Cornelius]

Cornelius, my dear friend, sometimes I think you think too much.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children.

I do not really think too much, but I do keep on asking for more knowledge all the time. I am the nagging child at Hid feet always saying: Please Father, open your Word to me. Allow me to understand what you mean. Give me wisdom Lord and make me stand on the Word alone. If you allow me knowledge and understanding, it will be life to me: Your Word is live eternal. You honor your Word above Your name. Please increase my knowledge, I want ALL you have available . (That is the short version LOL, I hassle Him A LOT with it and He seems to like it, because the more I ask, the more I seem to get ) Most of what I write here, came to me in a moment and not through years and years of study.God gives insight sometimes that only seems to take half a second and then He starts confirming through other people and the Word. The Word must confirm what we hear, or we are not hearing from the Lord !

 

[Cornelius]

So you did say we are Sons of God and A Son of God is a God. So I can't speak for others but that is where I thought you were pretty clearly saying "we can be God". But as I stated in my previous post, you have been more clear that you are not saying "We are God". The way I am understanding what you are saying is that we have the capacity (through grace) to be as God, to be Christ-like. And we should not think that the power of God in Christ and Christ in us is not strong enough to deliver us from any and all sin. Is that close? If it is I'd say, ok, that seems to be the charge and should be our goal, and certainly most of us fall far short of the glory that God would have for us right now, but again I say that we are still somewhat bound by our humanity and the world we live in, so I think of it as a direction to move toward but a state that we don't fully attain.

I am going to try and stay on topic, we can talk about sin in another thread if you want to

Yes, you are getting it ! We are not God, nor will we ever be. But we will be LIKE Him, only because HE is doing something in our spirits. He is, through the Word, replacing our old self, with HIMSELF. I am going to say the following with great respect and hope that you will receive it that way: God , on this earth , has created a "Jesus Factory" He is duplicating His Son, in all who will believe Him for this. I can and will provide all the scriptures for this.There are enough , so don't worry.

God starts with getting us "out of the way" He crucified our useless side with Jesus. That sinful (I am just a sinner saved by grace-part) is in fact gone and dead. (I HAVE BEEN crucified with Christ ! )Oh boy, if we only believed this one bit, we will jump lightyears ahead. HAVE BEEN: Past tense. Our old man, our sin, our problems ..........all gone and crucified. To say anything different is to disagree with the gospel. Then He supplied the answer............JESUS CHRIST.........and He replaced our old sinful self with.........Christ. So WHO is suppose to live in us now if not Christ and if that Christ is not God, then we have the wrong gospel !

I really think I understand what you are saying, just not sure I am in agreement with your interpretation. I think what makes it difficult is when you say things like "I don't think many are ready to hear more than this" or "I really know this is a difficult concept". It comes across as a tad condescending though I'm sure you don't mean it to be.

Forgive me, that is not my intention. Through the years it has become clear that indeed many people just turn away from this and are not prepared to even try and understand it. I guess that is the side-effect of the Internet. Its full of opinions. So when I say something like that, I in fact hope that , that statement might make people just stop for a second and think " Do I get it" LOL

 

[Cornelius]

I really, really know this is a difficult concept and most people will not understand what I am saying.Go back and read what I am saying about us being like the Tabernacle. The Tabernacle carried God within and it is from within the Tabernacle that God ruled Israel. You and I are now that Tabernacle.

The Body of Christ (This name alone should say it all to you ) is the Temple. The Temple has a Holy of Holies. There God resides.He rules out of His Temple and through His Temple.

Part of us is God.That part where He dwells.He dwells within the spirits of those who are being born from above. Joh 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is of the earth, and of the earth he speaketh: he that cometh from heaven is above all.Joh 8:23 And he said unto them........ I am from above:...... I am not of this world. Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly;Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you. Joh 14:20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you.

Cornelius....Believers understand the concept of Christ living in us....most of us understand it quite well. This is not some new revelation. The problem came when you said we would be gods. Now you say you aren't saying that...well and good. You tend to act like Christians aren't taught by the Holy Spirit when you imply we don't know something so basic as Christ living in us. Perhaps it's new to you, or you don't see it being understood by some you've come in contact with, but it is not new. We are members of the same body....we have the same teacher you do and we're all enlightened in the same way. Please stop assuming we don't "see" what you see. Feel free to share, but it sounds rather condescending to say it's a difficult concept most people don't grasp. Guess what? Believers do understand that Christ lives in us....we are the temple of God...not gods ourselves, and I'm glad to see we agree on that.

I don't really know how to answer you on this, so I won't


blessings
C

 

[Cornelius]

Back to the topic:


Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

If God does not share His glory with anybody, then how can we have glory (from glory to glory) Christ in us is the hope of glory :2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.


God only shares His glory with Himself. So those who have died on the cross with Jesus (by faith in the fact) will indeed share His glory, because those believers know that they no longer live, but that now Christ (GOD) lives in and through them. God can indeed share His glory with Christ in us. He IS the .......hope of glory !

God can share His glory with the true "Body of Christ" because Christ is God. He lives in His body.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Christ and the church.......one flesh.............this is the mystery. Just like a man and woman joined become one in flesh, so too the Groom and His Bride.

He is the HEAD of His body..........we are the members of Christ's body: 1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ?1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Where is Christ? Where is God ?

 

[Cornelius]

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

The important thing here is to realize that this scripture is not speaking of the following:
1) Its not saying that those who do not confess Jesus as savior with their mouth is not of God (is says SPIRIT)

2)It does not say that the antichrist will deny Jesus as savior. Its again says : spirit.

First we must see that it is speaking about all of us, even as you are reading this now. You and I both operate in a certain "way" . We come across to people in a certain manner or spirit. We are either moving in a Christ-like spirit , or we are not. Hold this point

Second point: Look at the words "is come" Now if you look up the Greek, you will see that indeed those words are only used in the present imperfect tense. Meaning: Its speaking of something that is happening now and will continue to happen ............So it cannot be speaking of 2000 years ago, because that is not "present continues" it is PAST tense. So this "is come" is speaking of our spirits being reborn into His image. Jesus coming forth in you and in me.

G2064
???????
erchomai
er'-khom-ahee
Middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] word, ?????????

So every person who's spirit does not confess this fact when you come into contact with them, is not of Christ. They are ......antiChrist.

 

[Dude named Louis]

I am going to try and stay on topic, we can talk about sin in another thread if you want to

Yes, you are getting it ! We are not God, nor will we ever be. But we will be LIKE Him, only because HE is doing something in our spirits. He is, through the Word, replacing our old self, with HIMSELF. I am going to say the following with great respect and hope that you will receive it that way: God , on this earth , has created a "Jesus Factory" He is duplicating His Son, in all who will believe Him for this. I can and will provide all the scriptures for this.There are enough , so don't worry.

Cornelius,
This may be a subtle difference in what you were saying previously but it is of great magnitude. I think most of us who have been in disagreement with you would not have been if you initially said "we will be LIKE Him" rather than "EXACTLY" like him. I think that was the basis for any dissent—surely growing in grace and being dead to oneself allowing Christ in us to thrive can do nothing else but make us more like Him. Perhaps another way of communicating your point (forgive me if I'm mistaken) would be to encourage us to consider the limitless power that God's transforming grace can have in our lives—that our lives should be a reflection of His glory and holiness and majesty.

Our pastor quoted William Whiting Borden (of the Borden Dairy family) this morning. He apparently said in a journal something to the effect that if we place God on the throne, we are on the cross. If we place ourselves on the throne, Christ is still on the cross. This is a great illustration IMO of how we are to empty ourselves so that the richness of Christ in us can shine through.

 

[Cornelius]

Cornelius,
This may be a subtle difference in what you were saying previously but it is of great magnitude. I think most of us who have been in disagreement with you would not have been if you initially said "we will be LIKE Him" rather than "EXACTLY" like him. I think that was the basis for any dissent—surely growing in grace and being dead to oneself allowing Christ in us to thrive can do nothing else but make us more like Him. Perhaps another way of communicating your point (forgive me if I'm mistaken) would be to encourage us to consider the limitless power that God's transforming grace can have in our lives—that our lives should be a reflection of His glory and holiness and majesty.

Our pastor quoted William Whiting Borden (of the Borden Dairy family) this morning. He apparently said in a journal something to the effect that if we place God on the throne, we are on the cross. If we place ourselves on the throne, Christ is still on the cross. This is a great illustration IMO of how we are to empty ourselves so that the richness of Christ in us can shine through.

To be honest brother, the Bible does not give that distinction about exactly or not. It just says:1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.

Well, I know that we will never be His equal, that is true, but that is not what this thread is about. To be "like Him" is going to be "like Jesus" (He was always in submition to the Father ! ) . When? In this world !1Jn 4:17......... because as he is, even so are we in this world. Crazy thought for sure but that is indeed what is written. And if God says it, then I will say: Let it be according to Thy Word Lord.

I can tell you one thing I have learned, and that is that everything that proceed from the Father is God. Jesus proceeded as the Word and He is God. We are a bit scared of that, because we see it as pride and something that Satan wanted.But in reality : This is a gift from the Father. He is duplicating His Son in us. We will always be in submition to God, but we will be like him. Not in the sweet bye-an-bye, no, the Word teaches us that this will be before the end comes. In fact, prophecy has this timed right before the Tribulation.

C

 

[glorydaz]

We are to be like the perfect man Jesus.
He had two natures...one human and one divine.

 

[Cornelius]

We are to be like the perfect man Jesus.
He had two natures...one human and one divine.

That is what I have been saying all the time.

Jesus the Son of Man: That part was born through Mary
Jesus the Son of God: That part was Christ, His Spirit Man

Now we are the same: We too are "son of man" born through our parents. And we too now can have the Word/Christ/God dwell in our spirit man : Son of God

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.

Waiteth and waiteth and waiteth.................still waiting. but soon now, all will be revealed according to the Word.

What does this mean: 2Pe 1:4 ........... that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature,.........................

divine nature ?

 

[glorydaz]

What does this mean: 2Pe 1:4 ........... that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature,.........................

divine nature ?

We are certainly sons of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Christ in us is our life and hope of glory.

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Of course, being partakers of life and the divine nature of God doesn't mean we are divine. It means we are sustained by the divine nature of God. We become partakers of eternal life when we're born again. We partake of the divine nature of God as we escape the corruptions of this world, and walk in newness of life.

We're to abstain from fleshly lusts...partaking instead of the divine nature.

Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Being partakers of the divine nature continues throughout our life and beyond...as we see in Rev. 22 where we partake of the tree of life and the river of water. We are continually fed by the Word and the bread of life and the living water....partakers of the divine.

 

[Cornelius]

It means we are sustained by the divine nature of God. .

No , then it would say: You are sustained by the divine nature. It does not say that. It says we are partakers of the divine nature.2Pe 1:4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in that world by lust.

par·take (pär-tk)
v. par·took (-tk), par·tak·en (-tkn), par·tak·ing, par·takes
v.intr.
1. To take or have a part or share; participate.
2. To take or be given part or portion: The guests partook of a delicious dinner.
3. To have part of the quality, nature, or character of something.

English is my second language and even I know what partakers means.

 

[Cornelius]

2Pe 1:4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in that world by lust.

We partake of God's nature. We share it when we believe (have faith ) in the promises When we do, then the promise comes into action on our behalf, meaning we are able to move in the miraculous. That is what Jesus came to teach us. That is why He allowed Peter to walk on the water; to show him how faith works. When the Word is given to us, we are allowed to stand on it until it comes to pass.We are allowed to take a promise to save us in and out of any situation.

 

[glorydaz]

It means we are sustained by the divine nature of God. .

No , then it would say: You are sustained by the divine nature. It does not say that. It says we are partakers of the divine nature.2Pe 1:4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in that world by lust.

par·take (pär-tk)
v. par·took (-tk), par·tak·en (-tkn), par·tak·ing, par·takes
v.intr.
1. To take or have a part or share; participate.
2. To take or be given part or portion: The guests partook of a delicious dinner.
3. To have part of the quality, nature, or character of something.

English is my second language and even I know what partakers means.

Good for you..English is my first language. :biglaugh
Partake means to eat of.... you forgot that part.

As we partake of the living water, we don't become the water, but the water sustains us.
When we partake of the bread of life, the bread sustains us...we don't become the bread.
It sounds like you're claiming we'll become gods again....
We have God in us...we become partakers of the divine nature.
We don't become divine...we partake of the divine.

 

[Dude named Louis]

I'm gonna pretty much bow out of this discussion because I think we're going a bit in circles. In answer to the thread title I'll simply say that I believe to be growing in grace more Christ-like each moment. I stumble and have seasons of doubt, weakness but God is faithful and I repent and learn and grow. I couldn't ask for anything more and am grateful.

 

[Cornelius]

I will explain again

2Pe 1:4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in that world by lust.

We partake of God's nature. We share it when we believe (have faith ) in the promises When we do, then the promise comes into action on our behalf, meaning we are able to move in the miraculous. That is what Jesus came to teach us. That is why He allowed Peter to walk on the water; to show him how faith works. When the Word is given to us, we are allowed to stand on it until it comes to pass.We are allowed to take a promise to save us in and out of any situation.

 

[Cornelius]

So you are saying we will be like Him, without His divine side ?

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.

and you are saying that we are transformed in His image, but not into His divine side:

2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

And the sons of God are sons, but not on the divine side, they are actually more sons of man ?

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.

You are saying that God will share His glory with man, although He says He will not. Or is there another glory here that we must see?

2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

You are saying man in his humanity will rule from the throne of God? Wow ! You mean the sinners , saved by grace, and still sinners, will sit on the throne ! Wow again,

Rev 3:21 He that overcometh, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne.