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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Which translation and why?
- Thread starter JM
- Start date
D
D46
Guest
OK, Steve-so read what you will.
Atonement
Member
Okay I don't wanna get into a fist fight over translations here. But I do study alot and I know that the NIV is a horrible version for many reasons, and I mean many. I can go through so much just about this alone. But to those that use this version. I would like to ask what the NIV say's about these two verses??
Mrk 11:26
Mrk 15:28
I could give more later. But this should be proof enough.. (hint) look at your footnotes..
Mrk 11:26
Mrk 15:28
I could give more later. But this should be proof enough.. (hint) look at your footnotes..
Atonement
Member
I use the Nelson's Bible Library it cost $24.99 and much better then most. I have used several over the past decade, but this is by far the best version. I would not use the online "free" one's because I have found many glitches in their system(s).
I waiting untill 07' they are coming out with a Bible coding software. See what the hype is about all these hidden Bible codes hehe. I'm a sucker for punishment I know.....
P
Poke
Guest
D46 said:
Regarding 2 Corinthians 2:17, "Peddle? There's a big difference between corrupt and peddle." Indeed, there is. But, from what I can tell, all the manuscripts say "kapeleuo" which ca nmean either "peddle" or "corrupt." But, I think it means something like selling watered down whiskey. The NIV says "peddle" which loses the meaning of corruption (the NIV actually paraphrases, and throws in the phrase "for profit."). The KJV says "corruption," which loses the meaning of peddling. Overall, I think the NIV might leave the more accurate impression, but the KJV is more literal.
The differences between manuscripts is small compared to the differences between translations.
jgredline
Member
For those who mist my post, I will repaste it here so we may see how foolish this argument is..
For those who follow my posts know that I use the NKJV, ESV and the NASB.. When I used to teach the adult sunday School cLASS i used the KJV as it was what was most were familiar with .. When I started a Bible study at work, mostly for employes who really had very little exposer to the bible, I decided to use the NIV. I taught this class using the NIV for about 1 month. Some people lost interest and stopped coming. It went from about 5-6 guys to 2.. I was bothered by it and brought it before the Lord. It was during that time of prayer and fasting that the Lord revealed to me why. It turns out that the guys that left could not read or write beyond about 3rd grade level. So once this was revealed to me, again I prayed about it. I decided that I was going to teach them how to read and write. I am talking starting out with the very basics.
Nouns, verbs, conjunctions, etc.. I went out and purchased a case of Bibles in the NLT.. Yes this paraphrase is what I was to use as the text book that I would use to teach them both to read, write and teach them about the Lord Jesus Christ.. Well once the word got out that I was teaching adults how to read and write, I had about 15-18 people with as many as 25 at times.. Well through the teaching I had over 15 people come to Know and accept Christ as Lord and Saviour. I placed everyone in a church close to their home. This went on for about 3 years until I became very Ill..
That is also why I stopped teaching for A while. Because I got very sick. I thought I was going to go home, but the Lord had other plans for me. What, I don't know yet.
The point of this post is simply this.
The Lord will use what he needs to use to save whom he will save.
In this case he used a paraphrase to reach his sheep.
So when I see this KJV only stuff, I have to say to myself. Did not the Apostle Paul tell us to avoid foolish controversies..
For those who follow my posts know that I use the NKJV, ESV and the NASB.. When I used to teach the adult sunday School cLASS i used the KJV as it was what was most were familiar with .. When I started a Bible study at work, mostly for employes who really had very little exposer to the bible, I decided to use the NIV. I taught this class using the NIV for about 1 month. Some people lost interest and stopped coming. It went from about 5-6 guys to 2.. I was bothered by it and brought it before the Lord. It was during that time of prayer and fasting that the Lord revealed to me why. It turns out that the guys that left could not read or write beyond about 3rd grade level. So once this was revealed to me, again I prayed about it. I decided that I was going to teach them how to read and write. I am talking starting out with the very basics.
Nouns, verbs, conjunctions, etc.. I went out and purchased a case of Bibles in the NLT.. Yes this paraphrase is what I was to use as the text book that I would use to teach them both to read, write and teach them about the Lord Jesus Christ.. Well once the word got out that I was teaching adults how to read and write, I had about 15-18 people with as many as 25 at times.. Well through the teaching I had over 15 people come to Know and accept Christ as Lord and Saviour. I placed everyone in a church close to their home. This went on for about 3 years until I became very Ill..
That is also why I stopped teaching for A while. Because I got very sick. I thought I was going to go home, but the Lord had other plans for me. What, I don't know yet.
The point of this post is simply this.
The Lord will use what he needs to use to save whom he will save.
In this case he used a paraphrase to reach his sheep.
So when I see this KJV only stuff, I have to say to myself. Did not the Apostle Paul tell us to avoid foolish controversies..
Atonement
Member
So do I, because this is what has happened to the NIV. The authors of the NIV have knit-picked the entire NIV Bible. I ask about these two verses in Mark because Golfjack, you said you don't have a problem with them? Did you look them up in the NIV?? If you have a NIV please look them up!!
THOSE VERSES ARE NOT THERE..... They have been omitted... Talk about knit picking.... The authors put it in the footnotes because they believed it was not proper fitting of the original KJV version that they took this NIV translation from. That is knit-picking the Bible.. If anyone ever wants to see a quiz or do a quiz about the NIV vs. KJV I would be more then happy to set one up here..
S
Solo
Guest
Let's see it. 8-)Atonement said:
D
D46
Guest
If this wasn't so true it would be sad indeed...these verses are either left out in toto or they are again, explained why they are not there in modern versions. The elimination of these verses further shows the corruption man had done to the word of God.
Mark 16:9-20 (KJV) Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
This part of Scripture has been challenged by the school of modern criticism. They claim it is not in the oldest and best manuscripts. The two manuscripts that modern theologians tout as their crowning glory are the Vaticanus and the Sinaiticus. The Vaticanus was discovered in the Vatican Library in 1481 and was totally rejected by the KJV translators in 1604-11 because of its impurities.
The Sinaiticus was found in St. Catherine's monastery at the foot of Mt. Sinai in 1844 by Constantine Tischendorf. It was in a garbage can ready to be burned. It too was very corrupt and contained omissions, additions, and deletions to the 7th century. The monks saw it as junk and only good enough to keep the fires going at the monastery. Yet, Tischendorf saved it from the fire and translated it and became the second of "the oldest and best manuscripts" which are the foundation of every modern version except the King James Version. Leave it to modern scholarship to find their crowning achievement in a garbage can.
Returning to Mark 16:9-20, the fact remains is that it is absent from these two corrupt manuscripts by design not because of age. It is in 618 extant manuscripts which means the evidence is 618 to 2. God preserved His Word. Find a modern version in an "anything for a buck" Christian bookstore and you will see the attacks on this secure part of Scripture. Even the New King James Version in the center column states Mark 16:19-20 is absent from Vaticanus and Sinaiticus yet present in all other manuscripts of Mark. The NIV claims that the earliest reliable manuscripts do not have Mark 16:9-20. The NASV claims they are not in the oldest manuscripts either.
The hilarity of it all is that these "reliable" manuscripts were nothing more than a dust collector in the Vatican and garbage fit only for a fire.
Mark 16:9-20 (KJV) Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
This part of Scripture has been challenged by the school of modern criticism. They claim it is not in the oldest and best manuscripts. The two manuscripts that modern theologians tout as their crowning glory are the Vaticanus and the Sinaiticus. The Vaticanus was discovered in the Vatican Library in 1481 and was totally rejected by the KJV translators in 1604-11 because of its impurities.
The Sinaiticus was found in St. Catherine's monastery at the foot of Mt. Sinai in 1844 by Constantine Tischendorf. It was in a garbage can ready to be burned. It too was very corrupt and contained omissions, additions, and deletions to the 7th century. The monks saw it as junk and only good enough to keep the fires going at the monastery. Yet, Tischendorf saved it from the fire and translated it and became the second of "the oldest and best manuscripts" which are the foundation of every modern version except the King James Version. Leave it to modern scholarship to find their crowning achievement in a garbage can.
Returning to Mark 16:9-20, the fact remains is that it is absent from these two corrupt manuscripts by design not because of age. It is in 618 extant manuscripts which means the evidence is 618 to 2. God preserved His Word. Find a modern version in an "anything for a buck" Christian bookstore and you will see the attacks on this secure part of Scripture. Even the New King James Version in the center column states Mark 16:19-20 is absent from Vaticanus and Sinaiticus yet present in all other manuscripts of Mark. The NIV claims that the earliest reliable manuscripts do not have Mark 16:9-20. The NASV claims they are not in the oldest manuscripts either.
The hilarity of it all is that these "reliable" manuscripts were nothing more than a dust collector in the Vatican and garbage fit only for a fire.
S
Solo
Guest
Thanks for your meticulous research D46. It is a joy to see the various parts of the body of Christ work in concert to bring glory to God the Father. Keep up the good work.
D
D46
Guest
Atonement mentioned a quiz. I think this little quiz may suffice for bringing forth a little understanding and truth.
INTRUCTIONS: Using the New International Version Bible (NIV), answer the following questions. Do not rely on your memory. As the Bible is the final authority, you must take the answer from the NIV Bible verse (Not from footnotes but from the text. Footnotes are not the Bible.).
1. Fill in the missing words in Matthew 5:44. "Love your enemies, ________ them that curse you, _____________ to them that hate you, and pray for them that __________ and persecute you."
2. According to Matthew 17:21, what two things are required to cast out this type of devil?
3. According to Matthew 18:11, why did Jesus come to earth?
4. According to Matthew 27:2, what was Pilate's first name?
5. In Matthew 27:35, when the wicked soldiers parted His garments, they were fulfilling the words of the prophet. Copy what the prophet said in Matthew 27:35 from the NIV.
6. In Mark 3:15, Jesus gave the apostles power to cast out devils and to:
7. According to Mark 7:16, what does a man need to be able to hear?
8. According to Luke 7:28, what was John? (teacher, prophet, carpenter, etc.). What is his title or last name?
9. In Luke 9:55, what did the disciples not know?
10. In Luke 9:56, what did the Son of man not come to do? According to this verse, what did He come to do?
11. In Luke 22:14, how many apostles were with Jesus?
12. According to Luke 23:38, in what three languages was the superscription written?
13. In Luke 24:42, what did they give Jesus to eat with His fish?
14. John 3:13 is a very important verse, proving the deity of Christ. According to this verse (as Jesus spoke), where is the Son of man?
15. What happened each year as told in John 5:4?
16. In John 7:50, what time of day did Nicodemus come to Jesus?
17. In Acts 8:37, what is the one requirement for baptism?
18. What did Saul ask Jesus in Acts 9:6?
19. Write the name of the man mentioned in Acts 15:34.
20. Study Acts 24:6-8. What would the Jew have done with Paul? What was the chief captain's name? What did the chief captain command?
21. Copy Romans 16:24 word for word from the NIV.
22. First Timothy 3:16 is perhaps the greatest verse in the New Testament concerning the deity of Christ. In this verse, who was manifested in the flesh?
23. In the second part of First Peter 4:14, how do [they] speak of Christ? And, what do we Christians do?
24. Who are the three Persons of the Trinity in First John 5:7?
25. Revelation 1:11 is another very important verse that proves the deity of Christ. In the first part of this verse Jesus said, "I am the A__________ and O___________ , the _________ and the _______:"
Conclusion: Little space is provided for your answers, but it's much more than needed. If you followed the instructions above, you not only failed the test, you receive a big goose egg. So now what do you think of your "accurate, easy-to-understand, up-to-date Bible"? If these 25 questions haven't served to show you that the NIV is a very inferior Bible, based on a very inferior Greek text, perhaps another quiz with 25 more questions, or 50, if you wish; but you will still flunk the text. If you would like to improve your score, and in fact score 100%, you can take this test using the Authorized (King James) Bible .
Do you have enough confidence in the NIV to... tell God, OUT LOUD, that the NIV is correct in deleting these words & phrases? If not, you need to get a King James Bible so you can have some confidence.
BTW-Much of this is also applicable to the NASB, NLT, and others.
INTRUCTIONS: Using the New International Version Bible (NIV), answer the following questions. Do not rely on your memory. As the Bible is the final authority, you must take the answer from the NIV Bible verse (Not from footnotes but from the text. Footnotes are not the Bible.).
1. Fill in the missing words in Matthew 5:44. "Love your enemies, ________ them that curse you, _____________ to them that hate you, and pray for them that __________ and persecute you."
2. According to Matthew 17:21, what two things are required to cast out this type of devil?
3. According to Matthew 18:11, why did Jesus come to earth?
4. According to Matthew 27:2, what was Pilate's first name?
5. In Matthew 27:35, when the wicked soldiers parted His garments, they were fulfilling the words of the prophet. Copy what the prophet said in Matthew 27:35 from the NIV.
6. In Mark 3:15, Jesus gave the apostles power to cast out devils and to:
7. According to Mark 7:16, what does a man need to be able to hear?
8. According to Luke 7:28, what was John? (teacher, prophet, carpenter, etc.). What is his title or last name?
9. In Luke 9:55, what did the disciples not know?
10. In Luke 9:56, what did the Son of man not come to do? According to this verse, what did He come to do?
11. In Luke 22:14, how many apostles were with Jesus?
12. According to Luke 23:38, in what three languages was the superscription written?
13. In Luke 24:42, what did they give Jesus to eat with His fish?
14. John 3:13 is a very important verse, proving the deity of Christ. According to this verse (as Jesus spoke), where is the Son of man?
15. What happened each year as told in John 5:4?
16. In John 7:50, what time of day did Nicodemus come to Jesus?
17. In Acts 8:37, what is the one requirement for baptism?
18. What did Saul ask Jesus in Acts 9:6?
19. Write the name of the man mentioned in Acts 15:34.
20. Study Acts 24:6-8. What would the Jew have done with Paul? What was the chief captain's name? What did the chief captain command?
21. Copy Romans 16:24 word for word from the NIV.
22. First Timothy 3:16 is perhaps the greatest verse in the New Testament concerning the deity of Christ. In this verse, who was manifested in the flesh?
23. In the second part of First Peter 4:14, how do [they] speak of Christ? And, what do we Christians do?
24. Who are the three Persons of the Trinity in First John 5:7?
25. Revelation 1:11 is another very important verse that proves the deity of Christ. In the first part of this verse Jesus said, "I am the A__________ and O___________ , the _________ and the _______:"
Conclusion: Little space is provided for your answers, but it's much more than needed. If you followed the instructions above, you not only failed the test, you receive a big goose egg. So now what do you think of your "accurate, easy-to-understand, up-to-date Bible"? If these 25 questions haven't served to show you that the NIV is a very inferior Bible, based on a very inferior Greek text, perhaps another quiz with 25 more questions, or 50, if you wish; but you will still flunk the text. If you would like to improve your score, and in fact score 100%, you can take this test using the Authorized (King James) Bible .
Do you have enough confidence in the NIV to... tell God, OUT LOUD, that the NIV is correct in deleting these words & phrases? If not, you need to get a King James Bible so you can have some confidence.
BTW-Much of this is also applicable to the NASB, NLT, and others.
Fellas - we can quote, give examples, compare side-by-side, give historical evidence but most of the modern versions readers just will not receive it. They will cling to ther modern versions and blame it on us being "mean ole KJV only trouble makers!"D46 said:
We are not the issue folks - the issue is your modern versions are from the wrong set of manuscripts.
God bless fellas.
O
Oscar3
Guest
I use the KJV only. The way I see it is simple.
Since it was the first english translation then it is the one that was God inspired. So I believe that the first translations of the specific language are the ones that the Holy Spirit inspired.
God Bless,
Oscar
Since it was the first english translation then it is the one that was God inspired. So I believe that the first translations of the specific language are the ones that the Holy Spirit inspired.
God Bless,
Oscar
Atonement
Member
D46,
Thank you for setting up that quiz. As I stated I'm not here to cause a fist fight between translations. But any good Bible Student should know about the errors in some translations. D46 brought up only 25 questions concering the NIV.. Heck I was gonna start at 100 questions and move forward. There is many many many things wrong with the NIV. I think we can see that. Like I said also I don't just use the KJV. I'm not one of those either hehe.. I use many translations as I stated before, and I use the NIV. However one must be mature in the Lord and have solid foundation before they try to use many translations and end up getting them self confused over the different wording.. I'm just saying that the NIV is a horrible version if that is all you read. Please think about buying another version..
Thank you for setting up that quiz. As I stated I'm not here to cause a fist fight between translations. But any good Bible Student should know about the errors in some translations. D46 brought up only 25 questions concering the NIV.. Heck I was gonna start at 100 questions and move forward. There is many many many things wrong with the NIV. I think we can see that. Like I said also I don't just use the KJV. I'm not one of those either hehe.. I use many translations as I stated before, and I use the NIV. However one must be mature in the Lord and have solid foundation before they try to use many translations and end up getting them self confused over the different wording.. I'm just saying that the NIV is a horrible version if that is all you read. Please think about buying another version..