Who are the Seven Churches?

[Eugene]

You have started with accuracy; although some of your comments are ambiguous. You have side-stepped a clear definition of the seven churches. I will be interested to see how you finish. Please continue.

The seven churches were located throughout Asia at that time (Physical location), they represent different time periods of the entire Church, they show the spiritual condition of members of the one body of Christ, and the judgment and rewards of the saints.

E.g, there are seven churches of which five are told to repent, and two are told to have crowns: Philadelphia and Smyrna. In revelation 2:22 we read that Thyatira will enter into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds (Spiritual condition), yet in Revelation 3:10 Philadelphia will be kept from the temptation to come upon all the world (The time of tribulation). The price? Patiently keeping the word, and that judgment of the churches is going on in our walk with Christ even today as Jesus walks among the candlesticks.

I.e., Philadelphia will enjoy the benefit of being caught up alive to meet the Lord in the air as having a crown, while Smyrna having been faithful unto death (Revelation 2:10) and also having a crown will precede them to meet Jesus.

Other spiritual conditions - Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms (Their reward - others had crowns.) in their hands.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve (Servants versus ruling conjointly with Christ) him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

I do not know if this is what you're attempting to establish or not; let me know and thanks.

 

[Hitch]

You are correct. Some of the comments made here are christo-gnostic. Hyper Preterism and hyper literalism are gnostic beliefs. The sect of Roman Catholics spawned the beginning of christo-gnosticism. Since then christianity has been infused with gnostic beliefs. Today many cannot tell the difference between gnosticism and christianity because the gnostics quoted from the bible the same way as people do today. You need to examine the gnostic beliefs in full to know whether or not you are a carrier of this disease - the "doctrine of the Nicolaitans" - which Christ hates. Because of widespread ignorance the christo-gnostics are still spreading this disease without being aware of it.

Your comments were in reference.

 

[Tri Unity]

I do not know if this is what you're attempting to establish or not; let me know and thanks.

We have remarkable agreement on most of these points thus far. I guess the identity you give for the churches in a historical context is still ambiguous. For instance, who exactly do the seven churches (or any of the churches) represent in the year 500AD, or 1000AD, or 1500AD, or 2000AD. Is the message relevant only to those in the 1st century, and somehow by a fuzzy and abstract extension apply to us to today? This really doesn't say too much - as the definition is too broad and general.

I will be more specific....

• Do the seven churches include Catholics? How so?
• Do the seven churches include Orthodox? How so?
• Do the seven churches include Protestants? How so?
• Do the seven churches include Millennium sects? (i.e., SDA, JW). How so?
• Do the seven churches include Pentecostals? How so?
• Do the seven churches include Messianic Jews? How so?

If your ideas cannot be explicit then they are open to very abstract and broad-sweeping generalizations which could really mean anything at all.

Thanks

 

[Tri Unity]

Your comments were in reference.

Yes, and so were yours. You are unaware of how much agreement you are in with christo-gnosticism. I am trying to develop in you a desire for scholarly historical research so that you might identify these gnostic teachings in your own views.

 

[Hitch]

Yes, and so were yours. You are unaware of how much agreement you are in with christo-gnosticism. I am trying to develop in you a desire for scholarly historical research so that you might identify these gnostic teachings in your own views.

So often the price and value of free advice are the same.

 

[Tri Unity]

So often the price and value of free advice are the same.

Coming to a correct knowledge is a spiritual enterprise. God blesses accuracy to us based on a number of prerequisites. Our attitude toward each other is one of those prerequisites. Our scoffing attitudes will bar us from accuracy; regardless of how intelligent you think you are. You need to recognize the spiritual conditions that are practiced sinfully in order to have the eyes of our minds enlightened. I offer this advice for free.

 

[Hitch]

Coming to a correct knowledge is a spiritual enterprise. God blesses accuracy to us based on a number of prerequisites. Our attitude toward each other is one of those prerequisites. Our scoffing attitudes will bar us from accuracy; regardless of how intelligent you think you are. You need to recognize the spiritual conditions that are practiced sinfully in order to have the eyes of our minds enlightened. I offer this advice for free.

Keep it and your attitude.

I'll take an open poke over your type of unchristian scoffing any day of the week.

 

[Hitch]

Bless you young man. I will pray for you all the same.

I'm particular about who prays for me and you dont qualify.
However I have no doubt though there will be some who you can impress, keep searching.:D

For further reference see post 47.

 

[jasoncran]

i dont get the idea of these churches having that level of meaning for "the end"

 

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Hitch
This has a gooeyness that reminds of gnosticism.

You are correct.

Don't look now, but I think Hitch was agreeing with me about what you wrote here:

1. Romans
2. Corinthians
3. Galatians
4. Ephesians
5. Philippians
6. Colossians
7. Thessalonians

...were written to the same 7 churches of John. They represent the same churches figuratively.

:biglol:toofunny:biglaugh

Seriously, of all the ridiculous things I've ever read on the web, I think that one tops them all.

 

[Stormcrow]

Hyper Preterism and hyper literalism are gnostic beliefs.

Only to those who place creeds over the clearly, plainly, recorded words of Christ.

 

[MithrandirOlorin]

Simon Magu appears in Acts 8, Acts 13 is a different Magus (A Cypriot Jew, not a Samaritan), Simon Magus I believe had died before the events of Acts 13 occur. Jerome says Peter first came to Rome to oppose Simon Magus in the 2nd year of Claudius Caesar (That's January 42 to January 43 AD), Simon died as a result of that opposition. Acts 12 is dated to 44 AD by the death of Herod Agrippa.

 

[Tri Unity]

Simon Magu appears in Acts 8, Acts 13 is a different Magus (A Cypriot Jew, not a Samaritan), Simon Magus I believe had died before the events of Acts 13 occur.

You are quite right on this point. I meant to quote Acts 8 - not Acts 13.

Jerome says Peter first came to Rome to oppose Simon Magus in the 2nd year of Claudius Caesar (That's January 42 to January 43 AD), Simon died as a result of that opposition. Acts 12 is dated to 44 AD by the death of Herod Agrippa.

Yes, but as I acknowledged, Simon Magus is mentioned in Acts 8, not Acts 13. Jerome? There are a few other more reliable sources for this information than Jerome - I wouldn't trust Jerome on anything. Jerome believed the Apostles were liars and that the bible had mistakes all through it. Other more reliable sources for the history of Simon Magus are Clement of Rome and Irenaeus. He appears in many other writings as well.

For more information on Jerome, see Jerome's letters to Augustine; and Rufinus's book, Against Jerome.

 

[MithrandirOlorin]

Jerome is not someone I'd trust on doctrine, but the Early Church fathers are the only source we have on extra Biblical early Church history.

 

[Tri Unity]

Jerome is not someone I'd trust on doctrine, but the Early Church fathers are the only source we have on extra Biblical early Church history.

Jerome, however, wrote more than 300 years after the events occurred. Clement, and others, were witnesses to the events. Josephus writes of the event, as does Justin Martyr.
These were all more reliable than Jerome.

 

[MithrandirOlorin]

Josephus wrote on when Peter went to Rome to oppose Simon Magus?

I don't if Clement said anything on that.