Who can answer this?

[sourberry]

Covenant was written.

New Covenant as a writing is a kind of a doctrine that was appended to the apostolic teaching, as I think. I do not have issues with that.

I, personally, do not see an issue with the cult of Bible too. Although, to me the Bible does not signify, because it is another doctrine appended to the apostolic teaching. There are many doctrines appended to the apostolic teaching, as I think.

What exists to me is various manuscripts, letters, sermons, books of prophecies etc. that my heart weighs. To me - your words, or the words of anybody else, or the words of Paul are something that my heart weighs, along with other ancient manuscripts. You see?

 

[th1b.taylor]

The lamb was slain from the foundation of the Earth. The plan of salvation (the Word of God and Jesus) was in place before Jesus was born. The Word of God is the plan of salvation which is represented by Jesus. The scriptures point to the Word, but they themselves are not the Word. It's an indirect relationship.

Not taught the importance of context? I'm the first person to advocate for context. ALL context.

Actually, my beliefs are quite popular among liberal Christians.

And here you are ignoring the topic and I suppose that since you are not aware that Liberal Christian is an oxymoron, you consider unruliness as being Christian? Please, don't do this.

 

[th1b.taylor]

New Covenant as a writing is a kind of a doctrine that was appended to the apostolic teaching, as I think. I do not have issues with that.

I, personally, do not see an issue with the cult of Bible too. Although, to me the Bible does not signify, because it is another doctrine appended to the apostolic teaching. There are many doctrines appended to the apostolic teaching, as I think.

What exists to me is various manuscripts, letters, sermons, books of prophecies etc. that my heart weighs. To me - your words, or the words of anybody else, or the words of Paul are something that my heart weighs, along with other ancient manuscripts. You see?

Wow!! With all of your "ME" importance it is very difficult to address any other issue. I, almost, hate to tell you this but it needs to be said. I have already alluded to the spirit you listen to, not likely to be "the Spirit" but you need to hear me, this once.

One of the very first lessons I learned from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is my, personal, lack of importance. This might hurt but that category is filled out to overflowing by everyone on the Earth. Yet, here you are, taking on the mantle of a Teacher and spreading the heresy that God's Word, as recorded in the Holy Scriptures, don't hold the importance of what you have to say? The Bible Cult? Really?

Have you never read the curse you are calling down on yourself? Three times in the scriptures God has told us that if we add or if we subtract from His Word, we will call down on ourselves the worst He has to offer.

You, really, need to repent of this.

 

[sourberry]

When one of the elders asked me if I think whether Bible is complete, I answered: "there are four gospels in the Bible, while one gospel would suffice for turning a person to God, as I think". We were facing to each other, eyes to eyes. My answer was found satisfactory.

Somewhere inside I was feeling that somebody wanted to build a barrier in me. I felt that such barriers meant to "protect" me from Ellen White, or from Saints or from somebody else. I love Adventists as much as I love Baptists, or as much as I love Orthodox.

So, the curse you refer to must have been merged with what has been called a Bible some time in the 7th century? I am Ok with that. What concerns me is why people split the church. Whether they use a cult of Bible, or other doctrines, these are not worthy causes for splitting the church. You see?

The topic is about how we measure "You ought to be good". And I think I have answered in my previous post - you measure "good" with your heart.

 

[Tristan]

liberals as in here in America that:

preach jesus is a way but not THE way to heaven?
jesus was a man, mary wasn't a virgin when she had him, gay marriage and abortion are ok? that liberal crap?

Jesus is God. Mary was a virgin. People have a right to gay marriage and what matters for them is love. God does the judging. To the pure, all things are pure. In certain circumstances, the mother has the choice to abort. Call it crap all you want. I call it progressive. Name calling doesn't make you more right.

 

[Tristan]

When one of the elders asked me if I think whether Bible is complete, I answered: "there are four gospels in the Bible, while one gospel would suffice for turning a person to God, as I think". We were facing to each other, eyes to eyes. My answer was found satisfactory.

Somewhere inside I was feeling that somebody wanted to build a barrier in me. I felt that such barriers meant to "protect" me from Ellen White, or from Saints or from somebody else. I love Adventists as much as I love Baptists, or as much as I love Orthodox.

So, the curse you refer to must have been merged with what has been called a Bible some time in the 7th century? I am Ok with that. What concerns me is why people split the church. Whether they use a cult of Bible, or other doctrines, these are not worthy causes for splitting the church. You see?

The topic is about how we measure "You ought to be good". And I think I have answered in my previous post - you measure "good" with your heart.

Wisdom from a nonbeliever. Praise the Lord.

 

[Tristan]

Wow!! With all of your "ME" importance it is very difficult to address any other issue. I, almost, hate to tell you this but it needs to be said. I have already alluded to the spirit you listen to, not likely to be "the Spirit" but you need to hear me, this once.

One of the very first lessons I learned from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is my, personal, lack of importance. This might hurt but that category is filled out to overflowing by everyone on the Earth. Yet, here you are, taking on the mantle of a Teacher and spreading the heresy that God's Word, as recorded in the Holy Scriptures, don't hold the importance of what you have to say? The Bible Cult? Really?

Have you never read the curse you are calling down on yourself? Three times in the scriptures God has told us that if we add or if we subtract from His Word, we will call down on ourselves the worst He has to offer.

You, really, need to repent of this.

Okay, stop for a moment here. I'm not exalting myself. Everything I talk about is directly grounded in scripture. This is not me making things up. Not once have I propped myself up. Don't make groundless ad hominem comments. Seriously.

There are two issues here. The first is that you enter this discussion with the idea that you're right and that anything other than your perspective is nonbiblical and heretical. I don't care in the slightest if you call me a heretic, no matter how inappropriate it is that you do. I'm held accountable to God, not the whims of men.

The second issue is that I'm not adding or subtracting anything. Just because I interpret (which is exactly what EVERYONE does), doesn't mean I'm adding or subtracting. You haven't even defined what that means. From what I understand, you believe that saying anything other than literal biblical scripture is adding or subtracting. Okay, well it becomes pretty silly when we have to take everything literally. Let's find that iron pillar called Jeremiah... and the bronze wall...and the fortified city.

The scriptures are a testimony for Jesus and the message of salvation. They point to the true Word. The scriptures themselves are not directly the word of God. The gospels in particular are each a man's testimony for Christ. God didn't write them, man did. They are certainly scriptures and I would say they are holy. They are not the word though. Jesus is the word and EVERYTHING points to him in some capacity. I don't worship the Bible. I worship Jesus.

 

[Edward]

Tristan: The scriptures themselves are not directly the word of God.

Oh yes they are. Men may have held the pen and paper, but I believe that the Words were given to them letter by letter from God.

This is being (debatably) proven with bible codes. They are finding so many hidden messages designed into the word that it is impossible for them to be coincidence or designed in by man.

 

[reba]

Debate is not allowed in the Lounge ... pack your bags your movin...

 

[Edward]

It's not? Oh, I thought the Lounge was like General Talk? Sorry.

(2nd Timothy 3:16)

 

[Tristan]

Oh yes they are. Men may have held the pen and paper, but I believe that the Words were given to them letter by letter from God.

This is being (debatably) proven with bible codes. They are finding so many hidden messages designed into the word that it is impossible for them to be coincidence or designed in by man.

Too bad that isn't said in scripture. I don't believe God sat over their shoulder and told them what to say. That to me diminishes the message. The true testimony of men that is derived from their on heart is far more compelling. I'm a human and I relate to humans best.

Hidden messages? Doesn't this verge on conspiracy?

 

[Edward]

Too bad that isn't said in scripture. I don't believe God sat over their shoulder and told them what to say. That to me diminishes the message. The true testimony of men that is derived from their on heart is far more compelling. I'm a human and I relate to humans best.

Hidden messages? Doesn't this verge on conspiracy?

It does say it in scripture brother. It is in 2nd Timothy 3:16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:/(KJV)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WsPhPldS6ys

 

[Tristan]

It does say it in scripture brother. It is in 2nd Timothy 3:16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:/(KJV)

Inspiration and direct copying the spoken words are two COMPLETELY different things.

 

[Eugene]

Too bad that isn't said in scripture. I don't believe God sat over their shoulder and told them what to say.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God . .

I do remember one instance: there may be more, but Paul tells us in 1 Cor 7:12 at one point that it is not the Lord speaking as to certain instruction. "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord."

 

[Tristan]

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God . .

I do remember one instance: there may be more, but Paul tells us in 1 Cor 7:12 at one point that it is not the Lord speaking as to certain instruction. "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord."

Can you please define inspiration?

"the process of being mentally stimulated to do or feel something, esp. to do something creative." A mental stimulation is generally not direct. That section in Corinthians refers to the message that Paul is passing on. God can certainly inspire them with a message, and then they write it in their own words. This makes sense, because the tone is different in almost all of the books. It doesn't say "all scripture is dictated by God."

 

[turnorburn]

Ah! That explains this madness "weighing things with your heart"

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

11 As the partridge sitteth on eggs, and hatcheth them not; so he that getteth riches, and not by right, shall leave them in the midst of his days, and at his end shall be a fool.

tob

 

[Tristan]

Ah! That explains this madness "weighing things with your heart"

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

11 As the partridge sitteth on eggs, and hatcheth them not; so he that getteth riches, and not by right, shall leave them in the midst of his days, and at his end shall be a fool.

tob

Time to start murdering people, because my heart tells me it's not okay. Time to discriminate against poor people because my heart tells me I shouldn't. I shouldn't love my family because that's my wicked heart.

Let's keep pulling things out of context and taking the whole Bible literally.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Time to start murdering people, because my heart tells me it's not okay. Time to discriminate against poor people because my heart tells me I shouldn't. I shouldn't love my family because that's my wicked heart.

Let's keep pulling things out of context and taking the whole Bible literally.

Tristan,
Last post here because you insist on breaking the rules. Eugene gave you the address you requested and you are shaking your fist in the Face of God... not very good. You and Sourberry are on the same team and I'm not, at all, sure either of you know it.

God inspired men to become His secretaries and He gave them "license" to express His message in their terms, why, because He's God and does as He does. There are portions of the scriptures that are literal, i.e. the Ten Commandments and the story of the Cross. Then there are portions that some term metaphorical, such as the Parables.

A, simply, great example in the Parable of the Wedding Feast. So, then, should we ignore them and call them silly? Only if we choose to play the Fool. The Wedding Feast (Matt. 22:1-14) is a word illustration of Heaven, just as the Ten Commandments are a beautiful word picture of God... the parallel is fascinating when we go to the trouble to study the Whole Bible and do so in submission to the Holy Spirit.

Me... right? Are you serious? My teacher/advisor, the Holy Spirit of God, the Father and God the Son are right, not me. My, just previous, post to you is a great example of me quenching the Spirit and mixing some of Sourberry into you for character. Sorry 'bout that!

I could take the coward's way out and blame it on this stupid affliction I brought back from Asia but I won't take the Coward's route on this. I just ain't perfect and the old man riding on my back, sometimes, gets loose and I do dumb things.

But every word of the Bible is held true by the hand of God. Period!

 

[Tristan]

Tristan,
Last post here because you insist on breaking the rules. Eugene gave you the address you requested and you are shaking your fist in the Face of God... not very good. You and Sourberry are on the same team and I'm not, at all, sure either of you know it.

God inspired men to become His secretaries and He gave them "license" to express His message in their terms, why, because He's God and does as He does. There are portions of the scriptures that are literal, i.e. the Ten Commandments and the story of the Cross. Then there are portions that some term metaphorical, such as the Parables.

A, simply, great example in the Parable of the Wedding Feast. So, then, should we ignore them and call them silly? Only if we choose to play the Fool. The Wedding Feast (Matt. 22:1-14) is a word illustration of Heaven, just as the Ten Commandments are a beautiful word picture of God... the parallel is fascinating when we go to the trouble to study the Whole Bible and do so in submission to the Holy Spirit.

Me... right? Are you serious? My teacher/advisor, the Holy Spirit of God, the Father and God the Son are right, not me. My, just previous, post to you is a great example of me quenching the Spirit and mixing some of Sourberry into you for character. Sorry 'bout that!

I could take the coward's way out and blame it on this stupid affliction I brought back from Asia but I won't take the Coward's route on this. I just ain't perfect and the old man riding on my back, sometimes, gets loose and I do dumb things.

But every word of the Bible is held true by the hand of God. Period!

Shaking my fist at God? You're letting yourself get frustrated for no reason. I'm not breaking any rules but yours. I'm not a fundamentalist. I'm not evangelical. I don't agree with your rules. There are many millions of Christians like me and they happen to be leftist. I am not alone. Am I judging you for your beliefs? No. I leave you be because your beliefs are between you and God.

I don't disagree that God gave them "license" to express his message. He told them the message, and they expressed it in their own words...not word for word, but they got the point across. That is an even stronger argument for cultural and historical context. God speaks to those people through members of their own society. They even wrote it in their own language!

What? Ignoring parables? I don't understand.

I understand that we all get passionate about our beliefs. I'm not here to criticize all of you for believing something different than me. I may disagree and explain why I don't agree with you, but this is not about judgment. This is about discussion and debate where we come together as believers and lay it all on the table. I hear a lot of conservative judgment and that is something that I will stand against. I don't want to hear the logical fallacies...arguments from authority and popularity...and slippery slopes. If you want to really get through to me, you're going to have to be rational and lay your logic out...because anything else generally gets set aside.

If you want to take everything literally, why didn't God just be really clear and say "all scripture is inerrant and regarded as fully accurate in every historical detail"? Instead it's written as "profitable". That's hardly a very strong term. If you want the black and white God, you're going to have to play by your own rules. Paul wrote that it is "inspired" and "profitable". It doesn't say it's literally God's word. Not to mention we haven't even started asking what we define as scripture. The Bible doesn't refer to itself as the Bible.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Jesus is God. Mary was a virgin. People have a right to gay marriage and what matters for them is love. God does the judging. To the pure, all things are pure. In certain circumstances, the mother has the choice to abort. Call it crap all you want. I call it progressive. Name calling doesn't make you more right.

Tristan, you say you are grounded in Scripture but you say people have a right to homosexual marriage.
What Scripture are you using to justify this?