Who created Satan?

[n2thelight]

I don't like to think about my view.
I don't have a view.
I don't have an answer.
I said there is NO answer.
WHERE does evil come from?
No answer.

Evil comes from choice

 

[GodsGrace]

Evil comes from choice

No answer yet.
What is the choice?
Between good and evil.
Where did the evil originate?

 

[n2thelight]

No answer yet.
What is the choice?
Between good and evil.
Where did the evil originate?

Ezekiel 28:15"Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

Satan was perfect in every way, until he stopped loving God. Satan's focus then turned from serving God, to serving himself. Doing things his way. God created all souls, and gave them the right to choose. He has the right also to receive our love and respect, so we should take the time to tell him we love Him.

Ezekiel 28:16"By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."

This is the over-throw from the world that was, the first earth age. God told Satan that he was to be removed from the altar of God.

 

[Trichakra]

The Lord created hell.

Hell is evil, and was created for those who are evil.

You mean evil is created by Lord?

 

[n2thelight]

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I made peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

This verse has been badly translated from the Hebrew text. Lets take a close look at two words here, the words "create", and "evil". The verb "create" or "bara" in the Hebrew requires the rendering "to bring about". This word has to be determined in the context of it's use.

The word "evil" is never rendered "sin", but "calamity". God brings calamity into our lives as the inevitable consequences of the sin that is committed. God is saying that if you chose to bring sin in your life, you can count on the calamity that will follow. God has not created the sin, or evil, but God has created the individuals that have turned to evil. Then when you get out of line, God provides the distress within your life to show you that you are out of line, and by that calamity you know it is time to repent and get back into line.

If you are a child of God, you will pick up on those times when you are out of the will of God, and see the distress for what it is and thank Him for it. You will get back to where you should be, and then God will straighten you path and break down those bars and gates that are in your way. However it is all up to you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I made peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

This verse has been badly translated from the Hebrew text. Lets take a close look at two words here, the words "create", and "evil". The verb "create" or "bara" in the Hebrew requires the rendering "to bring about". This word has to be determined in the context of it's use.

The word "evil" is never rendered "sin", but "calamity". God brings calamity into our lives as the inevitable consequences of the sin that is committed. God is saying that if you chose to bring sin in your life, you can count on the calamity that will follow. God has not created the sin, or evil, but God has created the individuals that have turned to evil. Then when you get out of line, God provides the distress within your life to show you that you are out of line, and by that calamity you know it is time to repent and get back into line.

If you are a child of God, you will pick up on those times when you are out of the will of God, and see the distress for what it is and thank Him for it. You will get back to where you should be, and then God will straighten you path and break down those bars and gates that are in your way. However it is all up to you.

Hi In2thelight

I don't know you, but you explain very well exactly what I believe.
Some will take the words in the O.T. very literally but, of course, you're right.
God did not create evil. It's not possible for God to create evil, so it must always mean something else.
Like, for instance, that something is being attributed to God that He did not do because everything was attributed to God in the O.T.

Or, as you said above, if you don't follow God's laws calamity will befall you. This is a law built into nature and the universe, it does not mean that God is doing the evil that befalls you. Or, the calamity that befalls you.

If man makes war, then the calamity that follows is in the nature and law of the universe. WE create the calamity by not following God's laws, and by being a warful human race. God did create the Law that says that war will bring calamity because evil is followed and evil will be the result.

Wondering.

 

[JLB]

This built in evil is in fact demonic. Of an entity that is not us as believers. Romans 9:18-24, Romans 11:8, Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 12:7, 2 Tim. 2:20-21. It is a vessel of dishonor that we are attached to in the flesh. We are called to "divide" from that vessel and it's workings. But to say we do not have this contention is futile.

That is something from your opinion, but Paul teaches us the truth.

There is no "it" in 2 Timothy that were are attached to in the flesh.

We are portrayed as either a vessel for honor or a vessel for dishonor.

It is the choice of each believer in Christ Jesus, to "cleanse himself" from being a vessel for dishonor, "so that" that person himself, will be a vessel for honor, fit for the master's use.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21


We are taught that we can come to God, to deal with any sin we are struggling with, and confess it to Him, to be "cleansed" of all unrighteousness.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

• Do you believe this to be true?

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1

Paul teaches us to "cleanse ourself" from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit.

• Do you believe this is true?

JLB

 

[JLB]

You mean evil is created by Lord?

I believe the Lord brings about calamity, to those who do evil.

The subject is Who created Satan.

My answer is: God created Lucifer. Lucifer became Satan when he decided he wanted to be exalted as God.

God created hell for the devil and His angels.

Hell is a place for the evil.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe the Lord brings about calamity, to those who do evil.

The subject is Who created Satan.

My answer is: God created Lucifer. Lucifer became Satan when he decided he wanted to be exalted as God.

God created hell for the devil and His angels.

Hell is a place for the evil.



JLB

This is a really difficult subject for me JLB.
God created Lucifer.
Lucifer became satan.
But what conditions were necessary for Lucifer to become satan?
Negative conditions for sure.
Certainly the negative conditions already existed for Lucifer to be able to choose them.
WHO created the negative conditions if God is all good and omnipotent?
I believe there is no answer to this dilemma.

Wondering

 

[JLB]

This is a really difficult subject for me JLB.
God created Lucifer.
Lucifer became satan.
But what conditions were necessary for Lucifer to become satan?
Negative conditions for sure.
Certainly the negative conditions already existed for Lucifer to be able to choose them.
WHO created the negative conditions if God is all good and omnipotent?
I believe there is no answer to this dilemma.

Wondering

You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you. Ezekiel 28:15


Isaiah says it this way.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
Isaiah 14:12-14

The iniquity that was found in him, was the desire to be as God; to be worshiped as God.

This continues today.


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you. Ezekiel 28:15


Isaiah says it this way.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
Isaiah 14:12-14

The iniquity that was found in him, was the desire to be as God; to be worshiped as God.

This continues today.


JLB

Yes. I know this.
But where did the iniquity come from?

I believe we have no answer.

Wondering

 

[JLB]

But where did the iniquity come from?

You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

“By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned; Ezekiel 28:15-16

 

[smaller]

That is something from your opinion, but Paul teaches us the truth.

There is no "it" in 2 Timothy that were are attached to in the flesh.

We are portrayed as either a vessel for honor or a vessel for dishonor.

It is the choice of each believer in Christ Jesus, to "cleanse himself" from being a vessel for dishonor, "so that" that person himself, will be a vessel for honor, fit for the master's use.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21


We are taught that we can come to God, to deal with any sin we are struggling with, and confess it to Him, to be "cleansed" of all unrighteousness.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

• Do you believe this to be true?

I believe believers have filthiness in both the flesh and spirit (2 Cor. 7:1) to cleanse ourselves from until the day we are EXACTLY LIKE/the SAME AS JESUS, made so by His Sole Power to take us into Himself in that final promise, which only HE can Perform. Phil. 3:21.

IN the meantime I'm not interested in deceiving myself, about my present state. And I sure ain't buying anyone else's stories about being as Perfect as Jesus, presently.

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1

Paul teaches us to "cleanse ourself" from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit.

Uh, yeah. That does indicate that we have these things to cleanse from.

• Do you believe this is true?

JLB

Assuredly. Pretty settled into the fact that it takes the Power of God to make me or anyone else Perfect. I am NOT God nor will I take on that kind of internal click bait from the tempter.

 

[chessman]

The iniquity that was found in him, was the desire to be as God; to be worshiped as God.

As a side note, I have zero desire to be like the Most High (God) or to be worshiped as God or for that matter to run the universe. I have enough to do already. I've always found it odd that any being (human or angelic) would want to be worshiped. It's repulsive to me.

For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
Isaiah 14:12-14

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind ascending into Heaven (above the heights of the clouds).

 

[dianegcook]

This is a really difficult subject for me JLB.
God created Lucifer.
Lucifer became satan.
But what conditions were necessary for Lucifer to become satan?
Negative conditions for sure.
Certainly the negative conditions already existed for Lucifer to be able to choose them.
WHO created the negative conditions if God is all good and omnipotent?
I believe there is no answer to this dilemma.

Wondering

Free will..
Otherwise we would be robots..
God wants your love and praise, not to be forced .
Can you force someone to love you?
You can not have hot without cold.
With every positive there is a negative..

 

[JLB]

Free will..
Otherwise we would be robots..
God wants your love and praise, not to be forced .
Can you force someone to love you?
You can not have hot without cold.
With every positive there is a negative..

Agreed.

I don't believe true love can be realized, if it is forced.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

“By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned; Ezekiel 28:15-16

Give it up JLB.
There's no end in sight!

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

Free will..
Otherwise we would be robots..
God wants your love and praise, not to be forced .
Can you force someone to love you?
You can not have hot without cold.
With every positive there is a negative..

This has nothing to do with free will.
Who or What created the negative?
God is positive.

 

[GodsGrace]

Agreed.

I don't believe true love can be realized, if it is forced.



JLB

I agree 100%.

 

[JLB]

I believe believers have filthiness in both the flesh and spirit (2 Cor. 7:1) to cleanse ourselves from until the day we are EXACTLY LIKE/the SAME AS JESUS, made so by His Sole Power to take us into Himself in that final promise, which only HE can Perform. Phil. 3:21.

IN the meantime I'm not interested in deceiving myself, about my present state. And I sure ain't buying anyone else's stories about being as Perfect as Jesus, presently.

Your the only one who mentioned the phrase... perfect as Jesus presently.

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1

We are told to "cleans ourselves" from all filthiness of flesh and spirit.

Do you believe this?

This built in evil is in fact demonic. Of an entity that is not us as believers. Romans 9:18-24, Romans 11:8, Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 12:7, 2 Tim. 2:20-21. It is a vessel of dishonor that we are attached to in the flesh. We are called to "divide" from that vessel and it's workings. But to say we do not have this contention is futile.

There is no such vessel attached to our flesh.

This sounds very much like Gnostic teaching.

Are you teaching Gnosticism?


We are portrayed as either a vessel for honor or a vessel for dishonor.

It is the choice of each believer in Christ Jesus, to "cleanse himself"from being a vessel for dishonor", "so that" that person himself, will be a vessel for honor, fit for the master's use.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21


We are taught that we can come to God, to deal with any sin we are struggling with, and confess it to Him, to be "cleansed" of all unrighteousness.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

• Do you believe this to be true?

JLB