Who is Mystery Babylon ?

[jasoncran]

Today's Judaism is not the same as the Judaism of two thousand years ago. Do you suppose that is a good or a bad thing?

it has to do with the rejection of the messiah for the most part.

interesting way to look at that stormcrow.

 

[reba]

His name is Jesus and His tenure here on Earth "split" time (BC-AD).

Would you like to get to know Him? :D

What must i do to be saved?

 

[jasoncran]

believe in that the lord died on the cross and was raised on third day.

 

[Stormcrow]

Next in the series exposing “Mystery Babylon”...

1. She's said to be clothed “in purple and scarlet” and adorned with “gold and precious stones and pearls.” Rev 17:4.

This has already been addressed in earlier posts in this thread, but the imagery of a woman so beautifully adorned is seen several times in the O.T., always in relation to Israel, Judah, their priests and people. The following references relate directly to the composition of the clothing of the priesthood and the adornment of the tabernacle:

Exo. 25: 1-8, 26:1, 31, 36, 28:1-43, 35:6, 23, 25, 35, 36:8, 35, 37, 38:18, 23, 39:1-3, 5, 8, 24, 29.

Here's one example of the passages above:

{15} "You shall make a breastpiece of judgment, the work of a skillful workman; like the work of the ephod you shall make it: of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen you shall make it. {16} "It shall be square and folded double, a span in length and a span in width. {17} "You shall mount on it four rows of stones; the first row shall be a row of ruby, topaz and emerald; {18} and the second row a turquoise, a sapphire and a diamond; {19} and the third row a jacinth, an agate and an amethyst; {20} and the fourth row a beryl and an onyx and a jasper; they shall be set in gold filigree. {21} "The stones shall be according to the names of the sons of Israel: twelve, according to their names; they shall be like the engravings of a seal, each according to his name for the twelve tribes. Exodus 28:15-21 (NASB)

Yet in other passages we see how this imagery is applied to Israel and Judah and how they are viewed when they have turned their back on God and His covenant with them:

Eze. 16:8-15 (also Eze. 16 entire chapter), Jer. 4:30.

While such language was used to describe the wealth of many kingdoms of that time (purple of the Assyrians in Ezekiel, for instance), nowhere is it used to convey, so fully, the adornments of the Mosaic priesthood or of God's covenant people, who are seen clothed in the same splendor both as the faithful wife and the idolatrous harlot; the latter as depicted in Rev 17:4.

1. She's said to have a “gold cup” in her hand “full of abominations.” Rev. 17:4

In the symbol of the “golden cup filled with abominations”, the golden cup isn't as important as that which fills it. What does this word “abominations” represent? Again, the answer is in the Old Testament.

Leviticus 18 covers a range of sins the Children of Israel were told not to do. This list of “do nots” covers everything from sexual immorality (incest and bestiality), to sacrificing their children to idols (human sacrifice). In other passages, abominations are committed in the names of idols.

Lev. 18 (whole chapter), Dt. 29:17, 32:16, 1Kings 14:24, 2Kings 16:3, 21:2, 11, 23:24, 2Chr. 28:3, 33:2, 36:14, Ezra 9:1, 11, Isa. 66:3-4, Jer. 7:10, 13:27, 16:18, 44:22, Eze. 5:9-11, 6:9-11, 7:3-20, 8:6-17, 9:4, 11:18-21, 14:6, 16:2, 22, 43, 47, 50-51, 58, 18:13, 24, 20:4, 22:2, 23:26, 33:29, 36:31, 43:8, 44:6-7, 13,

These abominations represent idolatry, murder, lust, theft, lying, cheating, sexual immorality and human sacrifice (noted above), and the darkest depths of depravity man can imagine when he turns His back on God. Paul spoke of the condition of such men in Romans:

{18} For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, {19} because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. {20} For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

{21} For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. {22} Professing to be wise, they became fools, {23} and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

{24} Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.

{25} For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

{26} For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, {27} and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

{28} And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, {29} being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, {30} slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, {31} without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; {32} and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. Romans 1:18-32 (NASB)

This is the spiritual condition of Mystery Babylon (1st century Jerusalem) and of the scarlet beast (pagan Rome) as Paul saw it.

It's interesting to note that Christ also chided the scribes, chief priests, and Pharisees for the condition of their “cup”:

{25} "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. {26} "You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also. Matthew 23:25-26 (NASB)

The scribes and Pharisees had put religion and ritual before righteousness. Christ told them to get their priorities straight.

Hopefully this is all starting to make sense.

More later.

 

[Stormcrow]

BTW, I'm posting this series of expositions on Mystery Babylon for the sake of savedbygrace57, who wrote this:

Well I am not sold on the Ideal that literial jerusalem is the Mystery babylon.

Stop me when you've seen enough to convince you.

 

[Elijah674]

BTW, I'm posting this series of expositions on Mystery Babylon for the sake of savedbygrace57, who wrote this:



Stop me when you've seen enough to convince you.

You are teaching a NO/BRAINER False Theology! You BEST BELIEVE Rev.'s last few verses of WARNING to you as well! And Eccl. 3:14 + Exod. 32:33!

NO WHERE in Christ's VINEYARD HOUSE are they a Whore in DOCTRINE as are the of Rev. 17:1-5 Babylonian ones ARE! The problem was seen in Isa. 5:3! (if YOU can read & see??) His Rev. 2-3 Church CANDLESTICKS are Not the Problem in Virgin Doctrines at the [START] either, but what the individual life that lived, became! [SICK LUKEWARM STUFF!] (not the Sanctuary Truth though! Psalms 77:13) None of these are, or ever were, Apostate Babylon in FALSE DOCTRINE as is rome & her harlot false daughter teachings. And in this case, Rev. 2:5 found that the WHOLE CANDLESTICK was removed with the Remnant replacing the old one, yet, with the same PURE Doctrines!

You are a 'blind' reader of postings of the WORD OF GOD! Note Christ alone in Matt. 23:1! ALL He says do..., and then the problem is that they are Babylon?? Come on, get REAL! (read on forum for the problem!) and on 'tithe?' read Christ's Words of 23:1-3 and He tell's me that He says to toss out tithe! (Matt. 23:23's last part of the verse)

The post is full of satans garbage! The Apostate house of God's Doctrines NEVER were the Babylon's stuff of satan in teachings, as are laid out by the Godhead! Their problem was in TOTAL REJECTION of the ONE JESUS CHRIST that made it the COMPLETE HOUSE OF GOD! 'We Have NO KING BUT CAESAR' was their cry! And in John 12:42-43 we see 'many' ones even BELIEVING JESUS who 'CHOOSE' the Christless HOUSE OVER THE CHRIST OF THE HOUSE!

Hey, [NOTHING PERSONAL MEANT], but your 'teaching' of false theology 'stinks'!

Yet as always I will Believe MY MASTER'S WORD! ".. JUDGE, I PRAY YOU,.. BETWIXT ME AND MY VINEYARD.]' And yes, satan want the whole Truth tossed out as well! (SICK!)


--Elijah

 

[sdktlk]

Brings to mind a priest's outfit doesnt it?

Haven't had much time lately. We do see 12 precious stones upon the priests garments pointing to the 12 tribes of natural Israel (the people of God.) If we follow that revelation through and pass from the natural to the spiritual as we are instructed to by the Scripture we discover that precious stones speak of spiritual Israel, both collectively and individually in the New Testament.

"To whom coming, as unto a Living Stone (the Lord Jesus,) disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." (1Pet 2:4-5)

And, again, "And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones..." (Rev 21:19a) These stones are not physical stones they are spiritual stones: these stones are us.

This woman is "decked with...precious stones." (Rev 17:4) The word decked would be more properly interpreted bespangled, gilded, that is covered entirely in precious stones. Therefore, this woman is someone, or something that presents itself as being a place where the saints of God should gather.

What she is not is a heathenistic, secular, worldly city, government, nation, or false religion (such as Islam,) for she has the ability to cause the saints to think that she is a place where they aught to be!

That is why we read, "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Rev 18:4)

Can we then go forward and discover what else the symbols of her stand for, and by doing so we might be able to come to a clear understanding of who or what she is?

 

[Stormcrow]

The post is full of satans garbage!

Ahhh. Another satisfied customer!

So I've gone from "pushing doctrines of Satan" to being his garbage man???

Not sure whether that's a promotion or a demotion, but I bet union scale on the latter pays better!

Sorry, Elijah... I just can't take anyone seriously when they're only response to the material is it's "Satan's garbage."

If the word of God - used to back up my claims - is "Satan's garbage", what does that make your posts?

Just wondering.

 

[Stormcrow]

Can we then go forward and discover what else the symbols of her stand for, and by doing so we might be able to come to a clear understanding of who or what she is?

Actually, I thought that's EXACTLY what I was doing. Guess I'll have to keep up the exposition.

And I suspect I know where you're going with your line of reasoning: the Roman Catholic Church. If so, I'll save you the time of even posting that nonsense. The RCC didn't kill the prophets of God, (Rev. 18:24) nor did Jesus tell the RCC they would pay for all their innocent blood (Matt.23:34-38)!

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

I wish American Evangelicals and Fundamentalists would just get past seeing the church - Roman Catholic or otherwise - in every single verse in the Bible. It's an embarrassment.

 

[Sinthesis]

Haven't had much time lately. We do see 12 precious stones upon the priests garments pointing to the 12 tribes of natural Israel (the people of God.) If we follow that revelation through and pass from the natural to the spiritual as we are instructed to by the Scripture we discover that precious stones speak of spiritual Israel, both collectively and individually in the New Testament.

"To whom coming, as unto a Living Stone (the Lord Jesus,) disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." (1Pet 2:4-5)

And, again, "And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones..." (Rev 21:19a) These stones are not physical stones they are spiritual stones: these stones are us.

This woman is "decked with...precious stones." (Rev 17:4) The word decked would be more properly interpreted bespangled, gilded, that is covered entirely in precious stones. Therefore, this woman is someone, or something that presents itself as being a place where the saints of God should gather.

What she is not is a heathenistic, secular, worldly city, government, nation, or false religion (such as Islam,) for she has the ability to cause the saints to think that she is a place where they aught to be!

That is why we read, "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Rev 18:4)

Can we then go forward and discover what else the symbols of her stand for, and by doing so we might be able to come to a clear understanding of who or what she is?

If she is not a false religion then why shouldn't the saints gather in her?

If she is not a false religion what are her sins that she will receive plagues?

Where do you get "she has the ability to cause the saints to think that she is a place where they aught to be!"?

 

[Elijah674]

Ahhh. Another satisfied customer!

So I've gone from "pushing doctrines of Satan" to being his garbage man???

Not sure whether that's a promotion or a demotion, but I bet union scale on the latter pays better!

Sorry, Elijah... I just can't take anyone seriously when they're only response to the material is it's "Satan's garbage."

If the word of God - used to back up my claims - is "Satan's garbage", what does that make your posts?

Just wondering.

I smile at ones ignorance of why all of romes daughter's in Rev. 17:5 do not understand why they became such? Surely you will tell the truth that even you understand that they have been invaded from romes catholic jesuit ones?

Some here might even suspect that even you or I, might be a jesuit infiltrator? But my message is not calling Israel the anticrist Babylon, yours is, huh?

Forum: Had you not wondered yet, why rome has now shifted gears & telling you'all to not leave your church's? (er' hers! Matt. 6:24) Of Rev. 18:4. And the forum here, are you not catching who it is that is behind some of these 'forum' pulpits? Keep your eyes open & see if you can catch any of rome's agenda. (not just these post)

And Babylon is NO Mystery in this late hour. (only to a 'spiritual' brain dead few!) When God came down & confounded the languages in the Gen. 11:7-9 they became as the repeated future history of these abomination of the earth ones of Rev. 17:1-5 with no one daughter with the same false babeling doctrine of the other! (yet all false!) AND WELL PAST ANY 120 YEARS OF THE HOLY SPIRITS STRIVING. And God documents that they are a DONE DEAL! Obad. 1:16


And you post:
[If the word of God - used to back up my claims - is "Satan's garbage", what does that make your posts? ]

So IF the Word of God does such a thing, that would be what satan would have you post up, huh? Not sure?? yet you just keep right up with your very FALSE JUNKFOOD teaching the same old stuff while there has NEVER EVER BEEN A VERSE IN CHRIST'S WORD TELLING US THAT THE VIRGIN VINEYARD OF [[HIS]] in ISA. 5 IS BABYLON!! NEVER! IT IS NOT THERE FOLKS! NO WHERE!!

The dastardly evil of this teaching is that the Doctrines of Israel were not the problem, and that the doctrines of BABYLON'S Doctrines are [[ALL FLAWED!]]

--Elijah

 

[Stormcrow]

The dastardly evil of this teaching is that the Doctrines of Israel were not the problem, and that the doctrines of BABYLON'S Doctrines are [[ALL FLAWED!]]

--Elijah

Christ wasn't crucified in Babylon. He wasn't rejected by the Chaldeans or Assyrians.

He was crucified in Jerusalem by His own people.

Historical fact.

Class dismissed.

 

[sdktlk]

Actually, I thought that's EXACTLY what I was doing. Guess I'll have to keep up the exposition.

And I suspect I know where you're going with your line of reasoning: the Roman Catholic Church. If so, I'll save you the time of even posting that nonsense. The RCC didn't kill the prophets of God, (Rev. 18:24) nor did Jesus tell the RCC they would pay for all their innocent blood (Matt.23:34-38)!

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

I wish American Evangelicals and Fundamentalists would just get past seeing the church - Roman Catholic or otherwise - in every single verse in the Bible. It's an embarrassment.

Brother, if we are going to use Matthew to establish a teaching it needs to be used in context. The Lord Jesus said, "[FONT=Georgia, serif]Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]some [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]some[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]them[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] from city to city:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]from[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] the blood of righteous Abel [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]unto[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Verily I say unto you, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]All these things shall come upon this generation[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif].[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]†(Mat 23:34-36)[/FONT]

Please note the "from and unto" in the passage. Also, observe that the Lord stated, "[FONT=Georgia, serif]All these things shall come upon this generation[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif].[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]†From the Resurrection of the Lord in 31 A.D. until the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was 39 years. All those things concerning natural Jerusalem did indeed happen within that 40 year generation.

Therefore, it is easily seen that Babylon the Great cannot possibly be referring to anything that happened with respect to natural Jerusalem. [/FONT]

 

[Stormcrow]

Brother, if we are going to use Matthew to establish a teaching it needs to be used in context. The Lord Jesus said, "[FONT=Georgia, serif]Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]some [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]some[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]them[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] from city to city:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]from[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] the blood of righteous Abel [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]unto[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Verily I say unto you, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]All these things shall come upon this generation[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif].[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]†(Mat 23:34-36)[/FONT] [FONT=Georgia, serif][/FONT]

You tell me to keep it in context then omit the proof that He was talking to them?!?

Now as Paul Harvey would say, here's "the rest of the story" (the part you left out):

{37} "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. {38} "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! Matthew 23:37-38 (NASB)

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Therefore, it is easily seen that Babylon the Great cannot possibly be referring to anything that happened with respect to natural Jerusalem.[/FONT]

:o

I have absolutely no idea what your point is, but if you're trying to tiptoe around the idea that you believe Mystery Babylon is Rome or the Roman Catholic Church, that's a non-starter based on both the Biblical text and historical evidence.

 

[Stormcrow]

Surely you will tell the truth that even you understand that they have been invaded from romes catholic jesuit ones?

Ah, yes, another Catholic-hater. I'm not Catholic and disagree with many of their doctrines, but enough with the incessant gnashing of teeth over those evil Catholics!!! It's ignorant, unscriptural and unbefitting someone who claims to be a Christian.

I would post a reference to that last remark, but I doubt it would matter.

 

[reba]

5 - Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities.

6 - No Bashing of other members. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.

 

[sdktlk]

You tell me to keep it in context then omit the proof that He was talking to them?!?

Now as Paul Harvey would say, here's "the rest of the story" (the part you left out):

{37} "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. {38} "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! Matthew 23:37-38 (NASB)



:o

I have absolutely no idea what your point is, but if you're trying to tiptoe around the idea that you believe Mystery Babylon is Rome or the Roman Catholic Church, that's a non-starter based on both the Biblical text and historical evidence.

The point being that the "blood" that was going to be required of natural Jerusalem's hand was from the slaying of Abel to Zacharias. That is they would be punished for ALL the righteous blood that was shed prior to the advent of the Lord Jesus. All the righteous blood shed going forward shall be required of Babylon the Great.

Again, the city of natural Jerusalem cannot be Babylon the Great.

 

[Elijah674]

Christ wasn't crucified in Babylon. He wasn't rejected by the Chaldeans or Assyrians.

He was crucified in Jerusalem by His own people.

Historical fact.

Class dismissed.

Come on! APPLY 2 Cor. 4:2 to your [posting's!] Old Israel could EXECUTE NO ONE!
It was the one who they cried out to, that KILLED CHRIST! 'WE HAVE NO KING BUT CAESAR' is the Historical FACT!
(not this [LOVING POSTED] garbage!)


rome must have a 'very deceiving' place to work from with the rest of the verses on Matt. 24:21 0n! And these verses of 'miracles' will deceive the very elect 'nearly'! Most are already set up for Israel to [FALSLEY] return as a nation to Christ!!

(and deceive the elect?? if it were possible!) You just watch how God lets satan work! You will see the greatest false revival ever allowed by God for satan to deceive as the Holy Spirit is being 'Grieved Away' from planet earth, and He is given to the ones who were sincere & the ones who had never had the opportunity to know much truth. Acts 2:16-20 + Acts Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15's REPEAT of Acts 3:19!

But Israel is the land to keep your eyes on, [THE LAND] they claim will be given them! But that PROMISE is not until the 1000 years are over & earth is recreated that the heavenly City will locate there! Yet, this is where these ones are leading you! Christ is here the preterists claim, and the land of Israel is promised to whom?? Matt. 23:38

--Elijah

 

[francisdesales]

You watch rome & their 'jesuit' friends convert Israel's DESOLATE HOUSE TO rome's satan! Matt. 23:38

--Elijah

As usual, you cite ambiguous Scriptures that could very well be applied to you personally... Yours is clearly a case of special pleading, Elijah. No serious commentary of Matthew applies this verse to an order that did not exist until 1500 years after it was written!!!

To do so can just as easily be twisted to apply to your own cult that spews hatred.

 

[sdktlk]

Haven't had much time lately. We do see 12 precious stones upon the priests garments pointing to the 12 tribes of natural Israel (the people of God.) If we follow that revelation through and pass from the natural to the spiritual as we are instructed to by the Scripture we discover that precious stones speak of spiritual Israel, both collectively and individually in the New Testament.

"To whom coming, as unto a Living Stone (the Lord Jesus,) disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." (1Pet 2:4-5)

And, again, "And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones..." (Rev 21:19a) These stones are not physical stones they are spiritual stones: these stones are us.

This woman is "decked with...precious stones." (Rev 17:4) The word decked would be more properly interpreted bespangled, gilded, that is covered entirely in precious stones. Therefore, this woman is someone, or something that presents itself as being a place where the saints of God should gather.

What she is not is a heathenistic, secular, worldly city, government, nation, or false religion (such as Islam,) for she has the ability to cause the saints to think that she is a place where they aught to be!

That is why we read, "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Rev 18:4)

Can we then go forward and discover what else the symbols of her stand for, and by doing so we might be able to come to a clear understanding of who or what she is?

What about the pearls? What do they symbolically stand for?