Who raised Christ from the dead?

[Imagican]

God REFUSES to LOOK upon sin, yet Christ BORE the sin of the World and God DIDN'T mind LOOKING upon the sin of an ENTIRE world?

What you have offered sounds good. But in truth, I believe these words were offered to SHOW us the SACRIFICE that Christ was to endure. The UTTER abandonement of the LOVE of God at His moment of death. For ONCE in thirty three years He was ALONE of the presence of His Father's Spirit.

While these words offered in Psalms may have well been offered as a precursor to Christ, I see NOTHING in them that would 'take away' this understanding that God DID INDEED abandone Christ at least the MOMENT before His actual DEATH. Plainly SHOWING the PRICE Christ PAYED for the sins of the World. Otherwise, it would have gone UNRECOGNIZED as to the EMENSITY of His sacrifice.

Do you truly think that Christ prayed for strength to endure the PAIN of the cross? For ONCE one is NAILED to it, at this point there is NO escape. NO, my friend, He prayed INSTEAD for the strength to endure what He knew was inevitable: His utter abandonement at the time He was to bear the 'sins of the world'. For THEN He KNEW He would be UTTERLY ALONE. And THIS is what He prayed for strength to ENDURE.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Rick W]

Jesus was also fully man and experienced the body of flesh. If He didn't experience the full weight of anticipation of what was to come then I don't think he could be fully man.

He didn't pray for strength.
He asked that there be another way and knowing there wasn't He accepted the will of the Father.

Christ knew Psalms 22 as well as He knew any of His word. How could He fear abandonment when He knew scripture better than anyone else who lived?
Christ did not doubt the Father as fear of abandonment suggests.

Christ knew He had to leave this world. What did He tell His disciples?
Why would Christ fear being "UTTERLY ALONE" when He Himself told His disciples not to do so?

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

If He feared being alone then I'd say He should have practiced what He preached.

 

[Paidion]

Justin Martyr, an early Christian who lived during the 100s, did not believe that people had souls which went to heaven at death. In his day, only the gnostics believed that.

For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 80

In our day, many people say they believe in the resurrection, but they say that going to heaven at death IS the resurrection. I, myself, have heard many preachers at funerals read the great resurrection chapter of I Cor 15, and then apply it to the departed as if he had already experienced it.

I can't remember who said it right now, but an early Christian stated that Christ didn't go to heaven until after He was raised from the dead. (Recall he said to Mary, "Don't hold me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father"), and so, this early Christian stated that we, too, must await our resurrection before going to heaven.

I, too, believe that Jesus REALLY died, and that the Father raised Him to life. So shall it be with us. As the apostle Paul affirmed, if there is no resurrection we are of all men most miserable, and we might as well "eat and drink, for tomorrow we die" I Corinthians 15:32

Why would Paul say this if we happily sail off to heaven at death as a disembodied spirit? Why could our spirits not enjoy a happy eternity in heaven without being joined to a body?

 

[Rick W]

disembodied spirit?
Christ and the disciples cast out evil spirits throughout scripture. Where'd those "disembodied spirits" go?
We ourselves are a new creature. The old man is dead. Where did the new spirit come from and what happened to the old one? Our bodies didn't die yet we're a new creature, with another spirit.
God is spirit, Does He have a body like the Mormons believe?
What "body" overshadowed the Virgin Mary that she conceived?

 

[kingdavid]

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.



Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

God and Christ are a dual person. God dwelled in Christ. they were not seperate from each other. it is the both of them manifested in the self same person but you only see ONE. They are ONE but not ONE like your finger ONE. This relationship was the same in the Spirit but in the vice vercy. Christ dwelled in the Father, that heavenly body-the Word. this relationship is testified in john 14:11 and 20 and john 1:18. there are a few others but i will stay with these for now. of course john 1:1 tried to show this duality. that is why Christ is known as the royal seed because in the beginning he dwelled in the Father.

that is why there is no contradiction to say it either way. it is both of them manifest in the self-same person. it is Christ's body and it is God's body. they share the same body in the Spirit and the flesh.

 

[Solo]

It appears from the many posts of unbelief on this forum that the title of LORD OF LORDS and KING OF KINGS means absolutely nothing to those who profess themselves believers, yet deny the LORD OF LORDS and KING OF KINGS. It brings to mind the scripture ....

• 1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobateF6 concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 2 Timothy 3:1-9
  
  [list:1idom6la]F6: reprobate: or, of no judgment

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